Not sure if I should cry or laugh. (360 and Dreamcast)

Specineff · Post by **Specineff** » Sun Nov 27, 2005 9:58 pm

http://www.1up.com/do/feature?cId=3145154

Peter "Shenmue 2 Sellout" Moore gives me the creeps.

Ganelon · Post by **Ganelon** » Sun Nov 27, 2005 10:22 pm

I disagree. The DC had the great US release date of 9.9.99. The 360 was released on...a couple of days before Thanksgiving??

PaCrappa · Post by **PaCrappa** » Sun Nov 27, 2005 10:27 pm

I wish I was a interweb journalist. Getting paid to come up with inane stupid shit that means absolutely nothing yet still draws readers sounds like a great career path.

A) I can't believe that anyone would read the whole thing.

B) I can't believe what was presented therein seems to mean anything to anyone.

If we'd all ignore this type of bullshit, maybe it'd go away.

The shittiest thing of all is that I just felt compelled to spend that much time complaining about something that was beyond meaningless in the first place.

That settles it. I'm off the internet for the rest of the day.

Pa

The n00b · Post by **The n00b** » Sun Nov 27, 2005 10:37 pm

I like the arbitrary top 25/top10 lists that these websites create. Any list that doesn't have Final Fantasy 7 as the top game of all time invites riots by spikey haired emo otakus of questionable sexuality.

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Sun Nov 27, 2005 11:05 pm

So. Nothing has changed in videogames during the last 6 years. Exciting times. I had almost forgot about this system.

Vexorg · Post by **Vexorg** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 12:27 am

The n00b wrote: Any list that doesn't have Final Fantasy 7 as the top game of all time invites riots by spikey haired emo otakus of questionable sexuality.

I may have to quote that at some point...

professor ganson · Post by **professor ganson** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 12:40 am

These similarities can only be a good sign: the DC is the best console since the PS1/Saturn era. I would be extremely happy if the XBox 360 should turn out to be comparable to the DC. (Not going to happen.)

sethsez · Post by **sethsez** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 12:50 am

It's a joke list, not meant to be taken seriously. The fact that it has 23 points should be the first thing to tip people off, but if that wasn't enough, "had a bald guy at the launch party" and other things should have made it obvious.

Neon · Post by **Neon** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 1:41 am

professor ganson wrote:These similarities can only be a good sign: the DC is the best console since the PS1/Saturn era. I would be extremely happy if the XBox 360 should turn out to be comparable to the DC. (Not going to happen.)

Fanboyism.

Plus, PS2 is better.

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 1:49 am

I don't know about that. By my collection I have 8 DC games to 4 PS2 games. Clearly the DC is at least twice as good.

umi · Post by **umi** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 1:58 am

professor ganson wrote:These similarities can only be a good sign: the DC is the best console since the PS1/Saturn era. I would be extremely happy if the XBox 360 should turn out to be comparable to the DC. (Not going to happen.)

Actually, if it weren't for the shmups on the DC, it would have been completely forgettable, and maybe one of the worst consoles ever, in terms of releases. Just a whole lot of next gen rubbish, which doesn't interest me at all. At least the playstation systems historically have released so many games that you get a huge number of unique, quirky games, as well as games from tried and dying minority genres (including shmups and 2d platformers). As a shmupper's machine though, it's heaven of course. Though still not the shmupper's machine of choice...

I cringe though, when I thnk of what could have been, had the DC lived (in full) a few years longer.

The n00b · Post by **The n00b** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 2:12 am

umi wrote:
professor ganson wrote:These similarities can only be a good sign: the DC is the best console since the PS1/Saturn era. I would be extremely happy if the XBox 360 should turn out to be comparable to the DC. (Not going to happen.)
Actually, if it weren't for the shmups on the DC, it would have been completely forgettable, and maybe one of the worst consoles ever, in terms of releases. Just a whole lot of next gen rubbish, which doesn't interest me at all. At least the playstation systems historically have released so many games that you get a huge number of unique, quirky games, as well as games from tried and dying minority genres (including shmups and 2d platformers). As a shmupper's machine though, it's heaven of course. Though still not the shmupper's machine of choice...

I cringe though, when I thnk of what could have been, had the DC lived (in full) a few years longer.

*cough* bullshit *cough* Jet Set Radio, Powerstone 1+2, Soul Calibur, Daytona USA, Virtua Fighter 3tb, Street Fighter 3:Third Strike, Street Fighter Alpha 3, Garou: MOTW, Last Blade 2, Ferrari 355, Marvel vs Capcom 2, Bangai-O, Skies of Arcadia, Resident Evil: Code Veronica and many more hardly count as "next gen rubbish." Those are pretty good releases for a system with such a short lifespan and a better library than the ps2. If it were against the ps1 though, it would be debatable.

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 2:15 am

While the DC had some turds, the games that shined, really shined. I've yet to see anyting rival Jet Set Radio (besides it's sequel) or Shenmue.

icycalm · Post by **icycalm** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 2:21 am

PaCrappa wrote:I wish I was a interweb journalist. Getting paid to come up with inane stupid shit that means absolutely nothing yet still draws readers sounds like a great career path.

A) I can't believe that anyone would read the whole thing.

B) I can't believe what was presented therein seems to mean anything to anyone.

If we'd all ignore this type of bullshit, maybe it'd go away.

The shittiest thing of all is that I just felt compelled to spend that much time complaining about something that was beyond meaningless in the first place.

That settles it. I'm off the internet for the rest of the day.

Pa

You are missing the humor, man. I was lolling by no. 15.

CMoon · Post by **CMoon** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 3:38 am

umi wrote: Actually, if it weren't for the shmups on the DC, it would have been completely forgettable, and maybe one of the worst consoles ever, in terms of releases.

Can't quite figure out from your original post what kind of games you DO like, but if you like ARCADE games (as I do), then in its all too short existence, the DC was easily the machine of choice. Heavy support from Capcom (and obviously Sega) made the DC an arcade freaks' dream with fast paced, score oriented, colorful games. Of course, that is in part because Sega was dumping their naomi based arcade games right down to their little wonder-box. It also gave Capcom a chance to put the same games they were putting on the PSX on to the DC but without frame loss, etc. Even SNK got a chunk of titles in on the DC, and these ports are excellent, and the beset your going to get without owning a neo geo system.

I really don't get the 'worst console ever' statement. Part of the reason there is a backlash against the DC is some of us are still having problems letting go of the thing--and at this late date, there is only a handful of games that keep the machien vital (most of the great titles were ported to other consoles).

Ganelon · Post by **Ganelon** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 4:33 am

Exactly, the DC was a Capcom fighters machine. Unless you're a diehard Takumi fan, I daresay the library of exclusive shooters for the system is really quite mediocre. In another few years, I predict that most shooter fans will discount the DC as being an important system for our genre.

Neon · Post by **Neon** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 5:01 am

I was just kidding.

Really though, most of those games n00b listed have PS2 ports. I'd say without Border Down and Mars Matrix, we could live without the DC.

SAM · Post by **SAM** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 5:16 am

DC is the only console got Native VGA support, and since it is a Naomi with 4M less vedio RAM, it works find in an acrade cab.

I must ammited that the DC only got a handfold of shmups, But yet they are some good quliaty ones, which might justified a purchase.

Actually I am wondering buying a Naomi might be a better choice.

Benjamin · Post by **Benjamin** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 8:30 pm

Neon wrote:I was just kidding.

Really though, most of those games n00b listed have PS2 ports. I'd say without Border Down and Mars Matrix, we could live without the DC.

Gunbird 2? Ikaruga? Zero Gunner? Giga Wing 2? Granted, the system didn't see the flood of shooters that the Saturn did, but then the genre's been hard pressed for releases ever since. I believe the Dreamcast still has more shooter releases than PS2, which is a still thriving, globally dominating system.

Great games make a system great, and the Dreamcast is a great system.

Neon · Post by **Neon** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 8:38 pm

Gunbird 2? Ikaruga? Zero Gunner? Giga Wing 2? Granted, the system didn't see the flood of shooters that the Saturn did, but then the genre's been hard pressed for releases ever since. I believe the Dreamcast still has more shooter releases than PS2, which is a still thriving, globally dominating system.

You've been misinformed, then (the shmups.com xenofiles for ps2 sorely need updating). PS2 might have more than Saturn at this point, after Taito Memories. The entire ps1 library with faster loads and better textures is reason enough to get one.

Also, Gunbird 2 has a ps2 port. And Dragon Blaze, Sengoku Ace, Blade, Gunbird 1, both strikers, sol divide...

That's why I like ps2. It has the most and best fun games. Not out of any kind of religious devotion.

Kiken · Post by **Kiken** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 9:21 pm

Neon wrote: The entire ps1 library with faster loads and better textures is reason enough to get one.

Too bad some games like Gradius Gaiden run with obviously errors on a PS2.

Neon wrote: Also, Gunbird 2 has a ps2 port.

In a manner of speaking, yes... too bad Atlus felt like screwing with the whole game (if it were more of a straight port, I wouldn't argue). As a result, the DC version is far more authentic when compared to the original PCB (even given the fact that it adds an extra character).

Post by **Ghegs** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 9:54 pm

Kiken wrote:
Neon wrote: The entire ps1 library with faster loads and better textures is reason enough to get one.
Too bad some games like Gradius Gaiden run with obviously errors on a PS2.

Neon wrote: Also, Gunbird 2 has a ps2 port.
In a manner of speaking, yes... too bad Atlus felt like screwing with the whole game (if it were more of a straight port, I wouldn't argue). As a result, the DC version is far more authentic when compared to the original PCB (even given the fact that it adds an extra character).

In neither of the cases have the games been shot to the knees and crippled. To continue with the analogy, they have a papercut on their finger or smacked their elbow into the wall and hit a nerve. While they're not perfect, they're still completely playable.

professor ganson · Post by **professor ganson** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 10:48 pm

PS2 does have some nice ones: DB, GWG, GB 2, DDP DOJ, Strikers 1945 I & II, Gradius 5

On the DC side we have: GW, GW 2, MM, ZG2, GB 2, BD

Neon: since we both agree that all these games are great, there's much more agreement between us than disagreement. I also agree with you that if you include the PS1 line-up, there's really no controversy about which machine has the most to offer a shmupper. To defend my preference for the DC is a task for another day: I'm being called to dinner just now.

BTW, is Giga Wing exlusive to the DC, as far as home-ports are concerned? Can't recall atm.

Benjamin · Post by **Benjamin** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 11:27 pm

Neon wrote:You've been misinformed, then (the shmups.com xenofiles for ps2 sorely need updating). PS2 might have more than Saturn at this point, after Taito Memories. The entire ps1 library with faster loads and better textures is reason enough to get one.

That's why I like ps2. It has the most and best fun games. Not out of any kind of religious devotion.

It's not "religious devotion," which is just absurd. It's a matter of not counting ports years after the original release as belonging to the later system's games -- ie., while I can find Pac-Man available on Dreamcast, I'll never count it as a "Dreamcast game." Emulated collections are nice and a great way to play games on newer systems, but I will never consider the system as the "one" which ushered in the game into the mainstream.

I don't expect you to agree with my mindset. :^) Nor am I saying the PS2 isn't a great system for shooters... just not one to find much stuff debuting on.

Neon · Post by **Neon** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 11:43 pm

Benjamin wrote:
Neon wrote:You've been misinformed, then (the shmups.com xenofiles for ps2 sorely need updating). PS2 might have more than Saturn at this point, after Taito Memories. The entire ps1 library with faster loads and better textures is reason enough to get one.

That's why I like ps2. It has the most and best fun games. Not out of any kind of religious devotion.
It's not "religious devotion," which is just absurd. It's a matter of not counting ports years after the original release as belonging to the later system's games -- ie., while I can find Pac-Man available on Dreamcast, I'll never count it as a "Dreamcast game." Emulated collections are nice and a great way to play games on newer systems, but I will never consider the system as the "one" which ushered in the game into the mainstream.

I don't expect you to agree with my mindset. :^) Nor am I saying the PS2 isn't a great system for shooters... just not one to find much stuff debuting on.

This still goes beyond the games and into the 'honor' of the system, which is ridiculous, IMO. Who cares if Darius Gaiden, Vampire Hunter, etc. etc. came out on Saturn first? It's available on ps2 with 100% of the frames intact and no loads.

Ps2 has had probably more than the Dreamcast in terms of shmups 'debuting' on it too (I'm late for class with no time to count...help plz?). Including Dragon Blaze. Which, as a fan of Gunbird 2, pretty much makes it a must-own for you.

gameoverDude · Post by **gameoverDude** » Tue Nov 29, 2005 12:33 am

professor ganson wrote:
BTW, is Giga Wing exlusive to the DC, as far as home-ports are concerned? Can't recall atm.

Yep. Giga Wing 1 & 2 are DC-only in regard to home systems.

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Tue Nov 29, 2005 12:33 am

I count at least 17 exclusive shooters for ps2 + many multi-system games, to which I say blah.

DB, Gradius V, GWG, DOJ. The rest is fluff.

xbox360, already forgotten

Benjamin · Post by **Benjamin** » Tue Nov 29, 2005 12:39 am

Neon wrote:This still goes beyond the games and into the 'honor' of the system, which is ridiculous, IMO. Who cares if Darius Gaiden, Vampire Hunter, etc. etc. came out on Saturn first? It's available on ps2 with 100% of the frames intact and no loads.

I care when someone discounts a prior system's viability just because that system's games have been later released on other platforms and that that somehow makes the origin system worthless. That's all. I suppose I'm a bit irked that you appear to be tossing history out the window; once the Revolution hits, the NES and SNES platforms become obsolete since their games are now "Revolution" games. I have nothing against games being ported to other consoles -- I think that's great. Just seems silly to trounce a system because some of its games are available elsewhere, albeit years later.

professor ganson · Post by **professor ganson** » Tue Nov 29, 2005 1:14 am

DC vs PS2

horis:
border down vs. gradius v
(slight advantage PS2)

gigas:
GW 1&2 vs. GWG
(advantage DC)

really hard games:
MM vs. DOJ
(advantage DC)

exclusive Psikyo:
ZG2 vs. DB
(advantage PS2)

pads:
ascii vs. Saturn pad
(slight advantage PS2)

backward compatibility
(advantage PS2)

quality of GB 2 port
(slight advantage DC)

If I add this all together, I get: slight advantage for PS2, in spite of my own earlier declarations to the contrary. I'll have to return to this some other time: I must have made a mistake somewhere.

One more thing. It is possible that Ibara will tip the scales decisively.

Neon · Post by **Neon** » Tue Nov 29, 2005 2:25 am

Benjamin wrote:
Neon wrote:This still goes beyond the games and into the 'honor' of the system, which is ridiculous, IMO. Who cares if Darius Gaiden, Vampire Hunter, etc. etc. came out on Saturn first? It's available on ps2 with 100% of the frames intact and no loads.
I care when someone discounts a prior system's viability just because that system's games have been later released on other platforms and that that somehow makes the origin system worthless. That's all. I suppose I'm a bit irked that you appear to be tossing history out the window; once the Revolution hits, the NES and SNES platforms become obsolete since their games are now "Revolution" games. I have nothing against games being ported to other consoles -- I think that's great. Just seems silly to trounce a system because some of its games are available elsewhere, albeit years later.

Well, would you count 3rd strike as a ps2 or DC game? I play it on ps2 because the port is better. Therefore it's a ps2 game.

NES and SNES games are going to look like shit on the revolution, on the other hand.

And a Treasure game better than Border Down? Nein. Most overrated dev in the universe. Ikaruga is the only one of their games close to acceptable IMO.