Shmups that are sweeter the second time around...

[Spyke]

I've had quite a few games now that I've sold, only to reacquire them, and then enjoy them a lot more the second time.
I guess experience, increases in skill and ability to absorb new tactics help to build a better appreciation of the games?

I'm thinking of Layer Section, GigaWing (although I'm seriously crap at it), Dodonpachi Resurrection and Espgaluda II specifically.

The first times I played those games I was either totally unimpressed, didn't like the game, or saw myself never being able to play them properly.

Now, I'm on my second ownership of Layer Section, and loving it! When I rediscovered Dodonpachi Res and Espgaluda II, I enjoyed them so much I've gone on to 1cc them (although only in novice level, but the seed is there and I'm improving in the normal game modes too). Gigawing the first time round - I was crap at it and hated it. This time round, I'm crap at it and think it's great!

Ant

[DMC]

I bought a few games with too high expectations or expecting something different from what it really was - and that initial dissappointment can be tough to shake off.
Radiant Silvergun comes to mind. I enjoyed the XBLA release much more than the Saturn port I bought and sold a couple years earlier

[Damocles]

Atomic Runner and Strania. It took me 15 years to enjoy AR.

[gray117]

Layer Section

Excellent example... This was one that I refound recently. For me its more the games I haven't played for a while and wasn't really thinking of, but pick back up upon seeing it sitting on a shelf.

[Spyke]

Yeah, I'm hoping that happens when OI buy my second copy of R-Type Final too. It was one of the first shmups I bought when I got into the genre a few years ago, and I didn't hit it off with the game. Since then I discovered R-Type Delta, so maybe next time I encounter Final it will be love at second sight...

Ant

[Wyrmnus]

Layer Section

Excellent example... This was one that I refound recently. For me its more the games I haven't played for a while and wasn't really thinking of, but pick back up upon seeing it sitting on a shelf.

Agreed. Rayforce is an amazing game to behold time and time again.

[Sinful]

Wow, it's weird to see RayForce not being liked the first time?


The first time Iplayed through a game and couldn't stand any minute of it + really took all effor I had to push myself to keep at it to the end. But something made me give that game another shot sometime after I first beat it, and I was so hooked like almost instantly and couldn't put it down until it was done. I never seen such a turnover like that for games in my entire life, and it has opened my eyes to be way more open minded, forgiving, and very careful about making sure I give all games as much of a chance as possible. Plus it's something I try to spread to others too, cause I know it to be so true + have seen more examples of this. And it's the best way to find some really great games that big time click with you to the point that it makes you forget anmy other games exist.

It's like one's current mood has to match a particular game just right to be enjpoyed to maximum or something? (Why I always come back to games that didn't click the firsdt time, no matter how hated, just to try again & keep making sure?) The other thing is keeping at a game even after one playthrough to really dig deeper into it's mechanics by really learning how to play it propely.



Gradius & Darius series are shmup examples where I couldn't stand them at all at first & no matter how much I tried I just couldn't figure out what the hell was so special about them?! >_< But sure enough keeping at them, they all of a sudden started to click. Now they're my fave shmups ever, easy. Plus Gradius seires is what made cross over into the shmup genre 100%. If I wouldn't of gave that series a chance, I wouldn't of been here for who knows how much longer, if ever?

[CStarFlare]

I think this is probably a good category for complex or difficult to grasp games - Hellsinker and Pink Sweets come to mind, they didn't seem that great until I started reading and developing an understanding of what they were all about.

[Wyrmnus]

I think this is probably a good category for complex or difficult to grasp games - Hellsinker and Pink Sweets come to mind, they didn't seem that great until I started reading and developing an understanding of what they were all about.

So much this. Chances are Kashicverse may be the same.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Gigawing the first time round - I was crap at it and hated it. This time round, I'm crap at it and think it's great!

Giga Wing is deceptively rough. You have only 2 extra lives and get no extends in the game (unless you're at 0 lives in stage 4 in which case you can get a secret one, but if you're doing well you shouldn't ever see it) so while you can easily deflect a lot of attacks via reflecting and bombs in a pinch, it's very unforgiving of mistakes. It's most rewarding when you're willing to spend time learning it, but optimal scoring requires a bit of boss milking, particularly against the lava boat. Sinnosuke and Isha are also kinda weak shottypes compared to Carmine and the incredibly powerful Stuck (strongest in the game when pointblanking, every time you reflect is a chance for huge damage). The hitbox is very small though, and I suspect it's possible (though extremely difficult) to get through it without ever reflecting. Since there's no scoring extends you don't have to worry about scoring if you don't want to, but that also means that only people really interested in scoring will ever work towards a good score.

[Emuser]

Not Truxton II

[chempop]

Ibara - bought the PS2 port and hated it, got the pcb years later and it's one of my faves

Gunbird 2 - bought the DC port before I had a tate setup, returned it, years later bought it again when I had a dedicated vertical TV.

[evil_ash_xero]

I owned Battle Garegga for years. Sold it, got back into it on MAME, and bought it again.

The main problem was I didn't realize it had a "red ball" mode, and I got frustrated with blowing up all the time.

[professor ganson]

Layer Section
Ibara
Sengoku Ace

[emphatic]

P-47 Aces. Tried it in MAME many years ago and thought it was hilariously difficult. Then I bought the mobo+cart and loved it. I refuse to hump though.

[Captain]

Hellsinker gets sweeter with every try, and the sweetness always lingers.

[Some-Mist]

for me... it has to be CAVE games. sure, I enjoy them right off the bat. But it's not until I put it down, try it again, and learn the scoring system that I really get hooked. scoring in any of 'em changes the game completely.

lately... it's been Progear.

[Jeneki]

Dragon Blaze. Sold off PS2 version, bought pcb. The game finally makes sense once I understand the dragon shot, haha.

[theman]

I hear you with EspGaluda 2, bought a full kit but never got on with it,traded for a few other games and have recently picked the pcb up again and i see it in a different light now, i think it helped messing around with the 360 version aswell.

[Obiwanshinobi]

Eliminate Down is the one for me. All the other shmups I like best or at least a tad, I liked first time around.

[blackoak]

Most Psikyo verts would fall into this category for me, as I didn't have the skill and experience to appreciate them when I was just starting out. Everything really did feel way too fast and impossible to sight-dodge... but having since been exposed to more bullet patterns and having developed a more calm, rational approach to initimidating sections generally, I found them quite accessible on my second goaround. Memorization is still required but the process of memorization is greatly aided by increased sight-dodging abilities (ie intuitive and very quick recognition of what is happening onscreen and what is being demanded of me as a player).

[Spyke]

...but having since been exposed to more bullet patterns and having developed a more calm, rational approach to initimidating sections generally,

I think this is a really important point, and something I empathise with. This process has made initially intimidating games more accessible to me too.

Ant

[WarpZone]

Yeah, I'm hoping that happens when OI buy my second copy of R-Type Final too. It was one of the first shmups I bought when I got into the genre a few years ago, and I didn't hit it off with the game. Since then I discovered R-Type Delta, so maybe next time I encounter Final it will be love at second sight...

For me, going back to Final after Delta just made it seem that much worse...

As for Psikyo, after a decade of going back and giving those games another chance, I still find many of the patterns impossible to sight-dodge

I guess Crimzon Clover might be my pick; although I liked some elements of the game initially, the control scheme was wrecking my thumb, I didn't really understand the scoring (especially proximity), and I was put off by some cheap attacks from the 2nd boss, but returning to the game I set up the controls to use a shoulder button and just gave it more time, and I appreciate it now not just as a Cave knock-off that's "impressive for an indie game" but competitive with the best of Cave's games.

[Sinful]

...but having since been exposed to more bullet patterns and having developed a more calm, rational approach to initimidating sections generally,

I think this is a really important point, and something I empathise with. This process has made initially intimidating games more accessible to me too.

Ant

Yep, this is exactly what I find that I need to let develop on it's own over time. Plus have already seem a very noticeable improvement in already.

Though Psikyo game still seem pretty intimidating due to the speed of some bullets, I still find their games very interesting & fun... just that maybe I should shy away from them for the most part at my early shmuping point. Still like to fire some of their games once in awhile for a bit, though.

[M.Knight]

For me, it was Recca.
I gave it a few tries on an emulator but didn't invest myself in it before the 3DS Virtual Console release. All those different power-ups were confusing at first but once you choose your set-up, the game becomes interesting.
Buying the game and playing it on a console also helped, I think.

[Nick420]

Yup this has happened with me also.
The one that comes straight to mind is..ketsui
I actually really disliked it at first because I just could not get to grips with the scoring mech. Couldn't grasp how it worked properly, hated all the deaths from being at point blank range and stuff. I was so disappointed because I loved the ds version sooo much and the superplay clips made me drool so much ketsui just looked so awesome.
I shipped in a jap slim 360 with ketsui and deathsmiles after a lucky windfall at poker only to be sorely disappointed by ketsui (immediately loved deathsmiles)

But after coming back to it time and again (mainly due to the soundtrack) I am totally in love with ketsui, man it is hard but just so fucking sweet of a game. Fun fun fun now