Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

[BIL]

wow. I didn't realise how much the US Dragon Fighter went for. ouch. Is the JP one as expensive as the US one?

Seems to be from a quick ebay/amazon comparison, but the copy I nabbed off ebay for ~$100 USD was CIB and in great shape. Seems amazon only has loose carts for around the same price. Wouldn't surprise me if you could get a loose FC cart for less.

[drauch]

Yeah, it barely surfaces. I was checking awhile back. Only one comes up in the sold listings on eBay. Went for $25 bucks complete!

[BIL]

Interesting - I did get the impression it's one of those that doesn't appear often, regardless of price.

I take a "fire and forget" policy when hunting such games.

[drauch]

Yeah, sometimes you have to. I know I've skipped a few for good prices, only to seem them completely unattainable in the future.

Real bummer, too, when certain games are expensive/rare in both regions. I'll usually just stick with U.S. releases if there isn't any differences, usually opting for JP releases if the price is insane. Got Klonoa in the mail today for $6, compared to paying $50ish for a U.S. copy. Sure, it has BEST GAMES FOR FAMILY plastered everywhere, but it works for me.

[BIL]

I've got that same print of Klonoa, haha. I'm always happy to go for those Sony, Konami, Capcom etc SUPER HAPPY FUN TYME reprints of JP games - I don't find disc-based packaging as charming as carts anyway, and Klonoa's such a cute game regardless of its jewel case.

Oddly enough there are a few Saturn Satakore reprints that are supposed to be rarer and theoretically costlier than the originals. Maybe the tables will turn similarly for PS1 someday. I'll still never part with my copy.

[Ed Oscuro]

Wow, didn't know Klonoa commanded such prices nowadays. Must've spiked sometime within the last few years...or more, but I haven't had mine ten years or anything.

[BrianC]

yeah. I got lucky with GG Aleste. A legit one appeared on ebay for 25 dollars a few years ago and I scooped it up. With games that are mostly the same between regions I usually go for the cheaper one. I prefer the JP art on many MD games, but I go for the Genesis one if it's cheaper, especially if the JP one is on the cart (Mystic Defender is a good example of this. Plays as Peacock King 2 in JP mode). Alien Soldier was one I got for Christmas. I wish it was cheaper, but it's definitely worth the price tag.

The most frustrating games to buy are the ones that aren't all that rare, but are still very expensive. Earthbound, I'm looking at you.

I don't know about Klonoa. The US version always seemed to be a bit on the pricey side after it sold out. My memory could be failing me, though.

[BIL]

Kind of off topic but on topic as well... I've been playing the heck out of Metal Storm(the JP version). But wow is it short. Especially after playing the Ninja Gaidens, Shatterhand, Vice, and stuff like Lickle and Mega Man. Even Little Nemo seems long in comparison.

Addictive though. I just wish it was about twice as long.

Hey ash, did you try the loop? On the off chance you haven't... I'm up to stage 4-2, and it's been more of an arrange mode than a mere "+1 enemy" affair as the first stage might suggest. Stages 2 and 3 are entirely transformed by their more aggressive environmental hazards, not even taking into account the new enemies like the turrets infesting 2-2's gravity maze or the onslaught of sniper jets that closes out 3-2. Stage 4's entire layout is completely new.

It's also hard as hell, first loop can't even compare. Utterly ruthless, demanding flawless planning and execution. Caught me off-guard, I love it. It's like Irem designed a theoretical arcade version as a bonus. I blew off the notion of stage passwords in the first loop, but here they work really well, as a kind of practice mode for a future 2-ALL attempt. It's so satisfying to finally crack open a previously unassailable stage with a sound strategy, or improve on a shakier existing technique. This is among the best console game extras I've seen, on par with stuff like Slap Fight and Senjou no Okami II's original modes on the Mega Drive.

It's not quite the same as another six stages' worth of the first loop's pitch-perfect difficulty, of course, but it'll definitely make a manly mech pilot of you.

[evil_ash_xero]

Yeah, I had put some time into the second loop. I have it saved there, so I can go back to it. You ain't kidding...it is WAY harder. I had to take a breather.

I beat Skyblazer a few days ago. It's a pretty good game. I do have some problems with the shortness of stages, but the game isn't too short overall. It's definitely worth a look for people searching for quality lesser known titles for the SNES.

Also, about Metal Storm...I haven't seen the JP version show up one time on Ebay. Also, I contacted a couple of sellers on Amazon who had it listed, and they just wrote me back saying it was out of stock. Is this game ultra rare or something? I'm not buying the Western orange version.

[BIL]

The FC version does seem rare and costly, at least complete. It and Holy Diver were at the top of my list for about a year before I lucked out. I saw a fairly beat-up complete copy go for ~£60 on YHJ last month, if memory serves.

Famicom stuff in general isn't cheap these days, at least CIB and in good shape.

[BrianC]

Stage 6 definitely looks meaner for the JP version of Metal Storm, but, looking at videos, even the US version of it looks like a challenge in expert mode.

[evil_ash_xero]

Stage 6 definitely looks meaner for the JP version of Metal Storm, but, looking at videos, even the US version of it looks like a challenge in expert mode.

I sort of laughed when I got to that stage in the JP version, after beating the U.S. version. "Hey, an electric field! This changes everything". It's not too bad. It is harder, but I found flying about the top of the stage, and then coming out at the bottom of the stage(or vice-versa), just weird.

The electric field makes the stage seem more structured, rather than so chaotic. But harder, yes.

[BIL]

TBH, the second loop is such a jump in difficulty, it makes everything in the first obsolete. Loop 2's second stage is easily as hard as Loop 1's sixth, and it gets tougher from there. The loop's first three stages are about as deadly as Ninja Spirit's first five, and that's an arcade game. So for challenge the FC and NES versions seem about even.

However if someone were happy enough with the first loop alone, the JP stage six is a way better climactic challenge, with the constant risk of an errant gravity jump sending you straight into crackling electric death.

Speaking of... I was thinking about MS's gameplay in relation to my other favourite mech sidescrollers like the Assault Suits trilogy, Ex-Ranza and Gigantic Army. I like a judiciously employed element of momentum, adding another dimension of challenge to the handling and conveying the sense of controlling an immense war machine. It obviously can't go too far or the game will just be a pain in the ass to play - the five mentioned previously nail the balance. Conversely, MS's Storm Gunner controls with pinpoint precision and lightning quick responsiveness, being essentially weightless. This is of course necessary with the game's one-hit deaths demanding total accuracy at all times, where Valken's ilk allow you to soak up a significant degree of flak over a stage's course provided you evade or block the brunt of it.

What gives MS its particular mechy character is its defining mechanic of the gravity jump - specifically the way it briefly turns your ninja-agile machine into a plummeting dead weight on a collision course with whatever awaits below. You get a small degree of steerability enabling skillful tight squeezes and intense near misses, but never enough to reliably mitigate the potential disaster of an inattentive or panicked gravity jump. It's a great touch that, along with the chunky sprites, gives things a dimension of bulk without cramping the game's Shinobiesque precision.

In the "heavy sidescrolling machinery" department, I've also been playing a lot of Metafight (FC Blaster Master) this week.



Amazing how a totally serviceable "save teh planet" premise got swapped out for the NES version's "oh noes muh frog run away." Even seven year-old me smelled a rat there. I've spent my first year in this hobby slaying Draculars, avenging fadders and gunning down exotic alien races, and you want me to what Sunsoft USA? Ugh. A premise so dumb the game actually benefits from its absence.

The tank is simply a joy to handle - with the meticulously articulated animation on the wheels and suspension, it's fun to just watch it trundle along, and the vaulting hydraulic jump is a thing of beauty. Like Valken and Ex-Ranza, there's a hint of inertia balanced against its ultra-responsive controls, imparting an appropriate heft without ever becoming overbearing.

You get to do a number of very cool things with Metal Attacker, climbing walls and ceilings, hovering up cliffsides, battling to maintain traction on icy floors and slicing through watery depths with the turbine upgrade. The homing missiles are great fun too. But it feels like the excellent sidescrolling tank action and its Metroid-esque labyrinth are held back by the far weaker overhead run and gun segments, essentially short periodic chores culminating in admittedly decent area boss battles. It's a shame the devs didn't focus 100% on the tank, since as cool as its new tricks are, you generally only have to employ them once. Though the final area is noticeably tougher than anything before it, it's not the ultimate, all-encompassing gauntlet the fully upgraded tank deserved.

What you do get is certainly excellent, and it's a surprisingly replayable game. Whittling down my clear time from nearly three hours to just over one has been one of my favourite FC things lately.

[BIL]

Is holidays, time at last to focus on what matters.

2010 Street Fighter. A bit unorthodox, but quite excellent.

Jigoku Gokuraku Maru aka. Kabuki Quantum Fighter. Every metalhead's dream game, defeat enemies by headbanging.

Seconding! I own both of these. 2010SF is like the FC's Alien Soldier, takes time to get to grips with its controls but once you do it's all boss all the time (nearly). Hard as hell.

Finally put some decent time on 2010SF over the weekend. I've liked this game since it kicked my ass on the NES, and immediately added it to my FC library a few years back, but I'd not seriously learned it until now.

Without wanting to play up the tired "zomgwtf SF spinoff" angle, 2010SF has something of a fighter's emphasis on calculated placement and timing of moves. On paper K̶e̶n̶ Kevin resembles Ryu Hayabusa, but in practice he's not a twitch-friendly character. Attacks have significant startup and recovery, his offensive options while climbing and jumping are limited, and he cannot crouch nor reliably attack low - only launch bizarrely spiralling overheads, tricky to connect in a pinch. He also has a smidgen of my dreaded POP turnaround delay, so forget juking and jiving Ninja Gaiden style. You'll be getting cornered and killed by the game's aggressive enemies very quickly if you're not constantly thinking a few steps ahead.

With a bit of practice I found it second nature to stay on the move, avoiding corners and incipient pincer attacks, and keeping enemies within Kevin's striking range. Not even bosses can withstand a sustained barrage of punches for long, so it's very much a case of outmaneuver and destroy. The game also shows some mercy with an invaluable evasive maneuver, a swift backflip whose invincible frames and range massively expand your counteroffensive options.

Ignoring this model rather than working with it gives 2010SF much of its feared reputation among casual observers, I'm sure. Control is tight, collisions are solid and fierce, and although the game is certainly a sustained challenge, it's by no means overly punishing if you're used to the system's harder sidescrollers. Stages and bosses are eminently vulnerable with a little observation - it's attempting to get by them on improv alone that'll ensure a swift demise. It could've definitely used a staple low attack, and the turnaround lag is unwelcome as always, but I find both issues easy to forgive in the game's more methodical context. An uncompromisingly tough and idiosyncratic combat-intensive sidescroller that's worth learning to play on its terms.

Caveats on its design ethic aside, I particularly like the range of wild scenarios its interplanetary safari drops you into, among the most enjoyably OTT I've seen on the FC. Riding immense sandfalls down mountainsides and duking it out in the roiling basin below, dodging an ice-shattering serpent intent on pulling you into the monster-infested depths, a furiously regenerating organic nightmare straight out of Salamander, and another iconic scene imported from Irem via X-Multiply... it's a fun trip. Its neon-lit eighties future cityscapes and isolated alien wildernesses look great, too, and the metallic droning of the teleport gates is a wonderfully discomforting touch.

By way of illustration, after a few successful one-credit runs I recorded a literal first one-life clear last night. It's shaky overall with no end of improvements to be made, but as stated in the OP: I'm lazy ROFL. Final stage in particular is really rough, still learning that one. I need to figure out a dominating strategy for those Alakazam assholes, they keep me running scared ATM.

Speaking of metalheads:

[BrianC]

Thanks for the info on 2010 Street Fighter/Street Fighter 2010. I was on the fence for awhile, but I like what I tried of it and, from your impressions and videos, it sounds like a solid game. I think I'll pick it up since the US one is dirt cheap.

[BIL]

AFAIK the NES and FC versions are identical too, besides the title, main character name and cutscene language. It's nice that this particular balls-hard game wasn't subjected to regional tomfoolery.

[evil_ash_xero]

Seems like the Japanese were into some metal, back in the day. Holy Diver is coming to mind.

I was playing Winds of Thunder, and Gate of Thunder, and admiring the metal. One thing cracked me up though. In one of the stages of GoT...I'm not sure which one off hand..but they swipe a guitar solo from Rainbow's Light in the Black. It's faster, but almost note for note.
I knew something was up, because I was enjoying the music, but then for a second I was REALLY enjoying the music. I knew some dude working at Red couldn't have come up with a Blackmore riff!

[BIL]

I guess they really liked Rising in particular! Check out the solo for Konami Shooting Battle II's arrangement of "Faraway" from Trigon. I heard it years before that record, and was racking my brain for a while trying to remember why the solo in "Lady Starstruck" sounded so familiar.

"Lady Starstruck" solo

"Faraway" solo

[evil_ash_xero]

I would have LOVED to of heard the Gates of Babylon in a game.

[BIL]

God damn, I am loving 2010SF. Between the harsh difficulty and picky controls, bringing it to heel for a 1LC of undisputed interplanetary dominance is possibly more trouble than it's worth. Unless you wish to become Space Kenshiro. (・｀ω´・)

One for the maniacs.

Nailed a much better no-miss that manfully slugs it out with the final stage's pokéasswipes. I actually found a near-unassailable safespot above the exit door, but with experience it's not too hard to keep track of their pyromancy, even in duplicate. It's a really cool boss enemy. The one fought on flat ground in Planet 4 gets its ass handed back all too easily, but the P3 and P5 encounters on uneven footing are satisfyingly tricky. Speaking of... although stuff will generally appear in the same place from game to game, enemy AI can be random as hell in fights. I immediately went for that safespot against the pokeys, having reached it unchallenged twice before, only to find one already busy setting fire to my hair. "You dirty muhfucka!" XTREEM BATTLE ensued.

[CStarFlare]

I would have LOVED to of heard the Gates of Babylon in a game.

I think everyone has said that at some point. Fortunately, Red was listening:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNUClyKlnn0

It would be really nice to have a list of which * of Thunder tracks were inspired by which metal tracks. Should be easier to figure out than the Doom tracks, because they're so much more blatant.

[evil_ash_xero]

You know, I was playing Winds of Thunder, and I was kind of like "hmmm".

[BrianC]

Looks like the JP Dragon Fighter goes for much cheaper. Japangamestock just got a loose one in for under 20 (not including shipping).

[BIL]

Interesting, thanks for following up. DF is certainly worth nabbing at that price. Ultimately nowhere as deep or finessed as Kage and Solbrain, but a simple, impeccably solid action game nonetheless.

And RAWWWR! I'm boozed up and unhappy about something! 3;

I didn't know until now that Ninja Ryukenden Tomoe (SFC)'s version of the third game is a kind of FC/NES hybrid. Combines a low damage scale ala FC with the NES's much more challenging enemy+powerup placements. This would've potentially been the best version of the game, if you can't get along with the original two variants. Objectively I'd say it is the best, as though I love the brutal resistance of NGIII and consider it the apex of macho sidescrolling ninja action, its damage scale does enter second loop / expert mode territory.

Unfortunately it's the SFC comp. I honestly can't take more than ten minutes or so of this, a little more if it's muted. The "nawlins funeral procession arrange" music is by far the worst offender, a hideous parody of the FC's explosive soundtrack. But the lifeless, flattened graphics aren't much better. I would assume the sprite garbage around certain enemies is an emulation issue, but the last time I did that I got Dracula XX square in the face. Why you did this to me Tecmo. ;_; Sakurazaki and co's FC works will never die in this heart.

What's more vexing is that these conversions actually seem to play accurately. Whereas Super Mario Collection looks good and sounds... tolerable, but fucked up the SMB1/2 physics so you can't break blocks while running without coming to a dead halt. Oh wellz. I'm gonna get a bare NGIII cart sometime and forget the SFC comp exists.

I think I'm going to target Holy Diver next. Metal Storm 2-ALL is truly an arcade-calibre challenge requiring total discipline, and I'm not in the mood for that at all right now. Having just nailed the 2010SF no-miss, a tough but far more predictably console-level challenge, it'll be interesting to see where HD fits in.

[trap15]

Holy Diver is one sick son of a bitch. I hope you enjoy bad controls and overly penalizing damage effects, because you're about to get a huge face full of them. One of my favorite FC carts, but oh fuck it's evil.

[Skykid]

Whereas Super Mario Collection looks good and sounds... tolerable, but fucked up the SMB1/2 physics so you can't break blocks while running without coming to a dead halt.

I didn't know this - or at least never twigged it. My first experience beating SMB2 (Lost Levels) was on the collection. Wonder if it would have been easier on the original Famicom.

[BIL]

Holy Diver is one sick son of a bitch. I hope you enjoy bad controls and overly penalizing damage effects, because you're about to get a huge face full of them. One of my favorite FC carts, but oh fuck it's evil.

Yeah, on my first serious runs with the game a few months back, I quickly noticed something was up while fighting the first boss - felt like I was being stopped from turning and jumping simultaneously. Had a glance at SDA's page and turns out, yep, the game will eat your jump input if it coincides with Dio, I mean Randy Rhoads, going mobile or stationary. I'd have seriously considered dropping a less engaging sidescroller right there, but as with Raf World (eats jump inputs while character is turning or going between standing/prone) I love it way too much overall.

I didn't know this - or at least never twigged it. My first experience beating SMB2 (Lost Levels) was on the collection. Wonder if it would have been easier on the original Famicom.

It's in the way the character travels after breaking a block. In the FC originals they'll stop gaining altitude quickly enough that if you smash one while running, you'll carry on uninterrupted. In the SFC versions they'll continue traveling up, hit the next block in the row and stop dead. It really bugs the hell out of me, and I'd probably get FDS SMB2 if magnetic media and interfaces didn't make me a bit uneasy.

[drauch]

Yup, I've noticed the SMB wackiness on the collection as well. Used to be one of the staple games in my friend's lowly collection during the glory days of buddyville. Probably played that version just as much as the original, and it certainly has some quirks about it.

[Mortificator]

There's a patch for it on Romhacking.net. Apparently, someone at Nintendo accidentally reversed the Y velocity.

I played the All-Stars version at least as much as the original too, to the point where when I first emulated the NES version I was surprised by getting knocked back down by bricks.

[evil_ash_xero]

Anyone tried to use this patch? I've tried using Lunar IPS and Ninja, and my patched ROM always freezes as soon as the Super Mario Bros 1 game starts. I'm using SNES9X.