Amusingly bad reviews

[matrigs]

You see, I died a lot while playing this game, but it’s fairly safe to say that most of those deaths were not my fault

Classic DTP quote.

[Ruldra]

Not only the speed is not at all slow (not fast but enough to do the job), but he's completely unaware there's a shield button lol. And he mentions repeatedly jamming the B button. He didn't even bother to enter the options menu.

[DocHauser]

Another edition of Dreamcast Magazine on OoP Archive. Has anyone actually played the game Armada? Three-page review, 91% rating:

http://www.outofprintarchive.com/articl ... ne5-1.html

It would appear that, just because it introduces RPG elements, that automatically makes it better than all those other crappy arcade shmups that DC mags generally scored in the 30-60% range.

It offers the kind of depth sorely lacking in its contemporaries

[Special World]

Armada was really cool back in the day, and I'm not surprised they rated it so highly. It's basically like 4-player local Diablo in space. It's aged really badly though, with really boring enemy design and incredibly repetitive gameplay. Also there's no real design to it, you just fly around empty space and shoot random enemies.

[Pteriforever]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhDJlX0oASY

Just wow.

[Squire Grooktook]

Armada was really cool back in the day, and I'm not surprised they rated it so highly. It's basically like 4-player local Diablo in space. It's aged really badly though, with really boring enemy design and incredibly repetitive gameplay. Also there's no real design to it, you just fly around empty space and shoot random enemies.

Sounds like Realm of The Mad God on Steam.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhDJlX0oASY

Just wow.

Please do not fall for it, this guy is a huge troll.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Sounds like Realm of The Mad God on Steam.

Is the Steam version any better than the original flash one? It was way too laggy to properly dodge attacks when you got to the real bosses (most could one shot you anyways with a pointblank spread attack, getting hit by multiple bullets at once easily rips your health up). I played it for a bit, but it's really a bit bland.

[Squire Grooktook]

Sounds like Realm of The Mad God on Steam.

Is the Steam version any better than the original flash one? It was way too laggy to properly dodge attacks when you got to the real bosses (most could one shot you anyways with a pointblank spread attack, getting hit by multiple bullets at once easily rips your health up). I played it for a bit, but it's really a bit bland.

It personally runs fine for me, but I have heard a lot of people say it was very laggy for them.

And yeah. Like Castronaut said about Armada. No real design, you wander around a big empty sand box doing the same thing over and over. It doesn't even play too much like a shmup, you don't have to dodge because you can always just fall back with the free roaming nature of the game every time things get harry.

[Aleksei]

"This game is perfect".....

http://youtu.be/-3Ocsd_21Lk?t=7m53s

[Ed Oscuro]

Sounds like Realm of The Mad God on Steam.

Is the Steam version any better than the original flash one? It was way too laggy to properly dodge attacks when you got to the real bosses (most could one shot you anyways with a pointblank spread attack, getting hit by multiple bullets at once easily rips your health up). I played it for a bit, but it's really a bit bland.

It personally runs fine for me, but I have heard a lot of people say it was very laggy for them.

And yeah. Like Castronaut said about Armada. No real design, you wander around a big empty sand box doing the same thing over and over. It doesn't even play too much like a shmup, you don't have to dodge because you can always just fall back with the free roaming nature of the game every time things get harry.

A few things about this:

RotMG is (or was, it's been over a year since I played at all) designed around groups and leveling quickly (and trying to sell you shit for real money). So sure, you can spin your wheels in the main maps for a long time and not accomplish much. It's better to get in with a group and go into some dungeons and stuff, and start leveling quickly. (I always tried to play the safe way and get my grinding to the level cap out of the way before doing anything else, but it's not mandatory by any stretch of the imagination.) There are a number of areas that do interesting things with the game concept - the Mansion of the Immortals has some nasty things waiting to jump on you, and there's an underwater area where you'll have to watch for air pockets or drown. There probably could be more of these things - but what was there was definitely headed in the right direction.

The various characters didn't seem (again this might be long since changed) particularly balanced at the lower end. They also each felt thin, each having some kind of bullet attack (long or short range depending on the character) and one special action. Needless to say there's no deep strategy. Wizards, archers, and priests were amazing units for starting out and doing a lot of damage (or at least surviving, in the case of the priest) from a safe distance; Mystic and Trickster had weird stuff that doesn't do all that much most of the time, at the cost of having something more generally useful. In the case of the Mystic, you get a special of great importance for group support, but the way the drops work in this game, you won't get anything of value for your work. I forget what the Mystic's attack range was like, but Trickster had a short-range knife, which equates to low damage normally - and low damage means special items won't drop for you, while durable characters will grab anything that drops for the public.

The game really is based on having a good 'net connection - it was extremely rare that I had any lag-related problems and I found it easy enough to dodge almost all patterns that weren't just "get out of the way" densely-packed bullet barf. If you want to get in close and do massive damage with a close-range class (i.e. the fighter / warrior), you generally put yourself in danger. The penalties for dying are very high due to loss of the character and items - it's not meant to be a shmup in that respect so it's no surprise that many patterns aren't devastating. That said, there are some places you can go where there aren't continuous options for retreating, if you want to actually do damage and continue on. You can sit back at the Mad God's final boss fight, but you won't accomplish anything. That much seems reasonable.

Not sure what to say about the blandness comments - I thought it was pretty charming looking and although it was randomly generated there are a fair number of different kinds of things you can encounter that give it a somewhat mysterious feeling. However, there are only a relatively small number of things you can encounter, so the mystery wears through quickly.

The main thing that pushed me off the game was Kabam exacerbating the Big Guy vs. Little Guy conflict by making statistics-enhancing potions only drop in dungeons, and only particular ones. You could go through the wilderness for hours, find a dungeon, start going through it - and then have somebody high-powered slam on through it and take the goods. I should mention that while stat potions are "soul-bound" (i.e., they only drop for you), many other things aren't, and potion awards were related to how much actual damage you did - not relative to your effort. This business made getting a good start even harder because at the same time they removed much of the rationale for going into the somewhat dangerous "Godlands" for potions - now they were just dangerous places to avoid. I am sure they rolled out other updates on top of that one to try to fix it, but I didn't want to stick around while Kabam flailed about to figure out what to do.

tl;dr - it's Kabam, you'll probably regret it later.
tl;dr #2 - it's an MMO, you'll definitely regret it later.

It is more of a game than Kabam's series of nearly-identical faux-4X strategy games though, and you gotta love that music.

[Squire Grooktook]

Well, I guess it's just one of those action mmo affairs first seventeen play sessions = boring, and than it gets better (though, I did see some of the dungeons and bosses and they didn't seem to be getting much more engaging, but who knows, I only played like 3 hours). I'd still say though that it's a really awkward genre mash up considering how shmups have a pretty strong instant-gratification factor.

[Ed Oscuro]

Yeah, in three hours you're lucky to see many bosses at all, and they will almost certainly all be the low-level ones. Still, that doesn't really excuse that they do suck.

A lot of the content isn't so great. There are a lot of LttP-style bosses in there - actually they pretty much all are, with the exception of bullet patterns. There were a few bosses in my time that had interesting arenas but it wasn't so much.

All that being said, I think that looking at this from the standpoint of instant gratification or being otherwise like a shmup is obviously going to give bad results. It's just not intended to be that kind of game so it's no surprise that it isn't. The main draw is, as ever, trying to hoard some shit and build up big characters.

[Lord Satori]

I recently got back into RotMG after a long hiatus, and it's changed alot since Kabam took over. Some of it for better, some of it for worse. Though the nexus is still treated like a frickin stock market. I don't lag much, but yeah, death by lag is still a problem.

[Ed Oscuro]

How easy is it to collect stat potions?

I'm done with the game regardless, though.

[DocHauser]

Hardcore Gamer Magazine: Resogun is an incredibly fun game, but not much more than that.

Haven't played Resogun yet, but if it is indeed 'incredibly fun', then what more do you need?

[Squire Grooktook]

Reviews like that always bug me.

Even Extra Creditz did something like that once when they praised Rogue Legacy for quite some time and than ended it by saying "it won't change your life or anything but..."

Yeah, I was totally expecting an action game to have a deep impact on the way I live my life.

[VideoGameRescue]

"This game is perfect".....

http://youtu.be/-3Ocsd_21Lk?t=7m53s

I know that Sine Mora gets hate. The reason why I spoke so highly of it is because it helped to bridge the gap between shmup enthusiasts and people who are very new to this genre.

Yes, it is a very easy game. No, it does not have the absolute best and most polished mechanics ever. What it does do, and I know some might disagree, is bring more people in to what we all know and love. I said it in a comment as well, but, in the end, it is all about sitting down and enjoying games. This game does a great job of that. I also felt the game was very solid. Sure, it is not the best game ever, but when I say a game is perfect, that means the experience I had was really good playing it and I really want others to experience that.

In the end, even if others do not like it, I really enjoyed playing it. I really had a good time with it. I think that enjoying a game is probably the most important aspect of a review.

There are many other things as well that I enjoyed about the game, but I do not want to throw up a wall of text in another thread about why I said what I said. If it is appropriate to have a conversation about it in here, I would be more than happy to. I just do not want to derail this thread.

I am all for discussion on my reviews and would love to talk about anything I say in them. Also, please keep in mind that any and all reviews are opinion pieces. What I have to do while doing these is stay honest to myself. Sure, many things most of us will agree on, but there are a few things that some of us will disagree on. I am sure there are plenty of games that others really enjoy that I do not, but I can't let that effect my reviews in any way.

I am sorry if it seems like I am derailing this thread in any way, but since I did the review and I am around these forums, I figured I should at least speak up about my mindset and what angle I was coming from.

[Squire Grooktook]

is because it helped to bridge the gap between shmup enthusiasts and people who are very new to this genre.

I don't think it really did that. Even if it did all the "bridging the gap" stuff was for things that were completely unrelated to the gameplay itself...having Grasshopper behind it, getting a few decent reviews, being easily attainable for cheap via download, having a decent aethestic. Gameplay wise, Sine Mora didn't do anything to "bridge the gap" that thousands of other games haven't done better already.

I honestly don't think very many non shmup fans even played it. It got a few decent reviews, sold decent, and I think that's about it. I had like 2 non shooter friends who picked it up, and one of them dropped it after playing the demo.

Compare that to something like Jamestown. I know a guy who thinks shmups are a shit "boring" genre, but still had a lot of fun with that game.

But hey, if you like it, that's fine. I think all games have objective and subjective elements. Odin Sphere is an extremely flawed games, but it's still one of my favorite games of all time.

[VideoGameRescue]

You guys are my core audience and have been the main place that have truly helped me make my reviews what they are (compare my latest ones to when I did Sky Stage for confirmation of that). If one of you feels differently, or possibly does not like something because of facts, I accept that. At the same time, I need to be honest. Sure, with that means that there will be times where we disagree and that is normal.

Also, yes, when I talked about bridging the gap, it has nothing to do with gameplay outside of the fact that the story mode is pretty easy. It is the fact that it is a Suda51 game and people like that recognizing the genre is a big portion of what I mean when I talk about bridging the gap. Whether people took to it or not is another story, but I felt that they made a great attempt at it. I should have specified that I meant the fact that Suda51 did it means that more people will have eyes on it.

I know Sine Mora was not a hard game, in fact the story mode is pretty easy, but since I personally had a great time with the game, I had to be honest about it.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

"This game is perfect".....

http://youtu.be/-3Ocsd_21Lk?t=7m53s

followed shortly by

"I am even more of a fan of vertical shmups that are bullet hells than I am of this type of game, but I could not find a single flaw in this game. Not one. When I think of a perfect shmup on Xbox 360, Sine Mora is what I think of. This is easily the best shmup of this generation..."

Perfect? Not even Cave's ports are perfect, but still Galuda 2 and Futari are still amazing - way more polished than Sine Mora is. And those don't have issues like shitty forced preset control mappings, autofire abuse potential, etc... Not a SINGLE flaw you could find? Honestly? Come on, you can't expect to say something like that and be taken seriously.

Your opinion is bad and you should feel bad.

[VideoGameRescue]

"This game is perfect".....

http://youtu.be/-3Ocsd_21Lk?t=7m53s

followed shortly by

"I am even more of a fan of vertical shmups that are bullet hells than I am of this type of game, but I could not find a single flaw in this game. Not one. When I think of a perfect shmup on Xbox 360, Sine Mora is what I think of. This is easily the best shmup of this generation..."

Perfect? Not even Cave's ports are perfect, but still Galuda 2 and Futari are still amazing - way more polished than Sine Mora is. And those don't have issues like shitty forced preset control mappings, autofire abuse potential, etc... Not a SINGLE flaw you could find? Honestly? Come on, you can't expect to say something like that and be taken seriously.

Your opinion is bad and you should feel bad.

I understand that it is not a popular opinion and I can live with that. I also understand that many shmup enthusiasts do not enjoy this game.

When I review games, I have to be honest with myself. I truly enjoyed playing the game. I used very big words in this review like best and perfect and it is very possible that I will play a game this generation and eat my own words. In fact, I can say right now that I enjoyed Crimzon Clover more. Calling it best and perfect was, at that given time, the best and closest to perfect of the generation that I had played. For some of these games, especially with games that are current generation, I am trying to play as many as I can, but I also want to play them enough to learn the systems of each game. It is very possible that there are games out there that are much better than ones I review.

I am all for feedback in all of the reviews I do. I want to constantly improve and make these better.

I am working hard to make sure these are good. I really want to make good reviews for these games. I do not want anybody to think that I am doing some of these reviews to go against the grain or go against what you guys think. You guys are honestly the reason why I have continued to do reviews on shmups. You guys have been very supportive of me and given me very good feedback on everything that I review, and that is very appreciated since I am always looking to improve and know that I can always use improvement in everything I do. I also can say that the feedback you guys are giving me right now I am taking to heart to help myself improve even more. The only way I can now if a review I did was well received, or soon as a poor review, is with feedback.

I can say that I am not going to sit here on a pedestal try to preach my opinion to anybody and if there are things I should be improving in my reviews, I will do everything I can in order to improve. I am working very hard to and going to work very hard to ensure that I do good reviews.

[stryc9]

@VideoGameRescue: What STG of this gen on 360 have you played? If you thought Crimzon Clover was superior to Sine Mora, what about Futari, Eschatos, Galuda 2, DDPDFK etc?

[VideoGameRescue]

@VideoGameRescue: What STG of this gen on 360 have you played? If you thought Crimzon Clover was superior to Sine Mora, what about Futari, Eschatos, Galuda 2, DDPDFK etc?

I am still learning about STG/Shmup and if there is a difference between the 2 words. I have also played eXceed 3rd, Aeternum, Armed Seven (I am releasing a review for that tomorrow actually). I actually really enjoyed Armed Seven. It was really fun.

Of the other ones you listed, I have not had a chance to play any of those. One statement, and this is probably not verbatim, that I also stand by is when I said that I felt that Raiden Fighters Aces on 360 was the best "bang for your buck" since there was just so much to do in that game for such a cheap price, plus it is Raiden Fighters (I am unsure if that counts though since it is really a compilation disc).

My favorite shmup of this generation is probably still Strania. I really enjoy playing that one.

I actually bought Under Defeat HD to review it and, under the recommendation of you guys, have yet to play it since you guys said it was not a good translation.

[ACSeraph]

@VideoGameRescue: What STG of this gen on 360 have you played? If you thought Crimzon Clover was superior to Sine Mora, what about Futari, Eschatos, Galuda 2, DDPDFK etc?

Crimson Clover > all dat shit

Moving along though,

@VideoGameRescue

I will be the first to tell you that you should give your opinion straight about a game as long as long as you can and are willing to defend it. You shouldn't concern yourself with going against our opinions here. The point though is defending your position, and also as a review you have an obligation to your audience to review things objectively.

"It's perfect" is something you just can't really say about any game. Everything has its flaws, and one of your jobs as a reviewer is to search for them. Granted they may not be flaws that bother you, and you can say so in the review, but you can't ignore them and say it's perfect. Find them, examine them, and then explain why they don't matter in the overall picture. That's the key to defending your potentially unpopular opinion.

I have the biggest boner in the world for Silent Hill 2, I think it is literally the greatest video game ever crafted by human hands. However I can also objectively give you a massive list of flaws that the game has. It's not perfect, it can't be perfect. But I can definitely give you reasons why I think it overcomes it's own flaws to the point that they don't matter.

Anyhow take this advice to heart, don't get down because your review got some heavy criticism this time around, and keep at it. You can only get better.

[VideoGameRescue]

I can promise you that any criticism, whether positive or negative, I take to heart, but not in a way where I will get down if it is negative, but in a way that if it is negative, I know I need to improve.

I probably did use far too heavy of words on that review and I will make sure to really chill out with words so heavy.

Everything I am reading from these guys and you are things that I need to truly consider and ensure that I do so that I can continue to improve in this. My proof of truly listening to you guys is if you watch my King of Fighters: Sky Stage review. Yeah, I listened to you guys and your feedback after I put that out.

I do try to keep all reviews up though, even though my sky stage review was really bad, to remind me to continue to improve.

EDIT: on that note, yeah, I used wording that I probably should not have, so I am taking this to heart and will do everything in my power to improve. I did not mean to derail the thread, but my review was in here, so it made sense that I say something since I trust your opinions. Sorry about derailing it there. Please continue with this thread and if you want to keep conversations about me and my reviews public, which I am fine with, we can probably move over to my thread as to not derail this one any further.

[Pretas]

Why is it always the people who have the least experience with the genre making reviews?

I know practically nothing about real-time strategy games. I have no authority to speak on their relative quality. You won't see me reviewing them for a reason.

[Squire Grooktook]

Why is it always the people who have the least experience with the genre making reviews?

I know practically nothing about real-time strategy games. I have no authority to speak on their relative quality. You won't see me reviewing them for a reason.

Good question, but it brings up another one: At what point does one know enough about a genre to review or speak on it?

Of course, one of the dangers of attempting to review a hardcore (as much as I loath the word) niche genre, is that ones perception of a game can change dramaticly depending not only on ones personal tastes, but how much time one spends with the individual game.

For example, I loved Marvel Vs Capcom 3 for the first 3 monthes I played it, but 5 monthes in I began to perceive it as a very poorly designed game. Now I can't even watch match footage of the game because it strikes me as such a bland and one dimensional game. Skullgirls on the other hand started out as a game I liked, and while I do realize that it's not perfect, it has only grown on me with time.

Similarly, I imagine a lot of Cave shooters change dramatically once you move past trying to 1cc and start trying to go for a super high score or 2 all. Depending on your skill level and experience when you come to the game, it could take days or it could take years to open up that side of the experience.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

I'm not sure you have to know much about a genre as a whole to appreciate or be knowledgeable about whether a game is good or bad based on its own merits... but I think being familiar with the genre certainly helps some of the more specific pitfalls (complaining about infinite continues when you're supposed to get the good ending via a 1cc). Your review really should speak to the quality of your knowledge. If all you're doing is praising or complaining about the more obvious surface elements like graphics, music, etc, without seriously talking in-depth about the gameplay mechanics, the controls, the enemy ai, and so on, it generally says a lot about the quality of the review as a whole.

I have the biggest boner in the world for Silent Hill 2, I think it is literally the greatest video game ever crafted by human hands. However I can also objectively give you a massive list of flaws that the game has. It's not perfect, it can't be perfect. But I can definitely give you reasons why I think it overcomes it's own flaws to the point that they don't matter.

This. It's possible to love a game and still acknowledge its flaws. I love Silent Hill 3's massively improved combat and extra goodies (stamina + lifebar, yes plz), but I'll be the first to admit the plot/atmosphere nowhere near matches the first two games. SH2's atmosphere is awesome, but the voice acting is stilted at times (they weren't all together when the lines were recorded) and the melee combat in the PS2 version uses the pressure sensitivity buttons to determine whether you swing/bash/thrust in melee attacks (the PS2's pressure sensing buttons sucked, SH3's melee controls are way better). Mother is an amazing RPG series, but the first game has some seriously silly difficulty leaps if you're unprepared, and the sequels are both pretty linear and don't offer as much free, open exploration as would've been nice. I have a massive boner for Giga Wing, but I'm not going to deny that it's really quite stingy with resources and isn't necessarily newbie friendly even with the reflect mechanic. The music in most stages is also pretty mediocre, honestly. Futari is awesome on the 360, but a lot of people have that Black Label stuttering thing that Cave really would have done well to patch.

I can't think of a game that's truly perfect or free from even minor flaws. A 10/10 game IMO isn't a game that's truly perfect or flawless; it's one where the flaws are so minor that they do absolutely nothing to detract from the enjoyment. No matter how much we love a particular game, it's not honest to go claiming that it's entirely free from flaws just because we like it.

[Pretas]

I think that reviews of competitive games with a lot of complexity should be forgone, until the discourse surrounding them has developed enough that authoritative statements about playability, depth, balance, and enduring appeal can be made. This can take a couple months to over a year in some cases. Of course, the IGN, Gamespot, et al news racket would make less money this way.

I can't think of a game that's truly perfect or free from even minor flaws.

Tetris: The Grand Master 2.

[Special World]

I personally think that more reviews are always better. It's good to get a wide spectrum of critical voices, and oftentimes you have to really search before you find a critic whom you totally click with. Keep doing your thing, VideoGameRescue. As long as you're thinking about and considering the strengths and weaknesses of a game, don't let anybody tell you you're completely wrong. Just listen to constructive criticism and see if there's a valid point, then try and incorporate that into your writing.