PS4 / Xbox One console war

[system11]

I wish the PS4 could play audio CDs, it's quite disappointing that it can't.

"I just got this amazing new soundtrack on a CD! Time for me to turn on the tv so I can turn on my console and listen to it!" said no one ever.

My TV has the best sound in the house, I still buy physical media.

[Specineff]

It's not hard to jury-rig a Y-cable or similar to connect to a set of decent computer speakers, or the TOSLINK jack to an amp, and listen to music without having to keep the TV on. That's what I do with my PS3 since I watch Blu-rays and listen to both CDs and audio files on it. (Keeping in mind there's no analog out on the PS4)

[null1024]

I wish the PS4 could play audio CDs, it's quite disappointing that it can't.

I'm assuming the PS4 won't play PS1 games from disc because of this?
[if it can and it can't play audio CDs, that would be really silly, especially since a fair few games use redbook audio anyway]

[brentsg]

I wish the PS4 could play audio CDs, it's quite disappointing that it can't.

Does this make the PS4 about the only spinning device in history that won't play CDs? I'll admit I never tried a CD in a Wii.

[Specineff]

Neither the Wii or Wii U can play audio CDs. Probably to avoid licensing fees.

[AntiFritz]

I wish the PS4 could play audio CDs, it's quite disappointing that it can't.

Does this make the PS4 about the only spinning device in history that won't play CDs? I'll admit I never tried a CD in a Wii.

No nintendo console plays cds or dvds without softmodding.

Besides the panasonic Q of course.

[BulletMagnet]

Sounds like MS is indeed seeking a semi-amiable solution with Early XBone Guy:

Sometime before the Xbox One's Nov. 22 launch, Weingarten's console will go back online in good standing. Microsoft will also pull its copyright claim on Weingarten's YouTube video of the console's unboxing, which—along with a slew of Tweets—appeared to get him in so much trouble overnight.

And then Weingarten will attend the Xbox One's gala launch event, as a guest of the company.

EDIT: So long as I'm in this thread I might as well leave this here.

[replayme]

Don't really see what all the audio CD fuss is about to be honest. Everyone and their grandma knows that TV speakers don't output the best sound - hence the need for sound system separates. If anyone has the money for a next gen console, they sure as heck have the money for a cheap CD player. Saying that, this is a first world problem that a lot of people need to keep some perspective on, as 10,000 people just died in the Philippines.

[system11]

Don't really see what all the audio CD fuss is about to be honest. Everyone and their grandma knows that TV speakers don't output the best sound - hence the need for sound system separates. If anyone has the money for a next gen console, they sure as heck have the money for a cheap CD player. Saying that, this is a first world problem that a lot of people need to keep some perspective on, as 10,000 people just died in the Philippines.

It's more to do with the amount of space multiple devices take up.

Another vital piece of perspective is that the people in the Philippines are not my concern, I hate it when people wheel out that stupid argument.

[replayme]

Don't really see what all the audio CD fuss is about to be honest. Everyone and their grandma knows that TV speakers don't output the best sound - hence the need for sound system separates. If anyone has the money for a next gen console, they sure as heck have the money for a cheap CD player. Saying that, this is a first world problem that a lot of people need to keep some perspective on, as 10,000 people just died in the Philippines.

It's more to do with the amount of space multiple devices take up.

Another vital piece of perspective is that the people in the Philippines are not my concern, I hate it when people wheel out that stupid argument.

I don't know... I guess your argument can be used in context of the Wii U, in that why would anyone want to buy another console for just the sake of just a few Nintendo games. I guess (using your logic) anyone who buys a Wii U is stupid, as not only does the console take up valuable real estate, but one also has to think of the sizable investment (in terms of time working for The Man) in order to fund such an expensive "toy".

I guess if you have a sound system which can be hooked up to a TV, you can also plug your MP3 player or portable CD player into it. These would be less expensive, in comparison to an XBox One, and would also probably use less energy as well. You won't need to turn your TV on, and therefore won't risk the screen or speakers malfunctioning. The portable devices would also not take up a lot of space, and will probably have better functionality to boot.

And by not using the XBone/PS4 as a glorified CD player, you extend the console(s) lifespan. Equals (considerable) money saved.

Finally, by using your argument (against you - again), why should MS/Sony etc pander to your whims and desires when (in all likelihood) people like you represent the minority. Most people already have an MP3 player, or CD player. Heck, most people don't even use CDs anymore. So why would MS/Sony implement this feature only so as to make the systems more expensive, and to pass this cost on to players who (in most cases) don't even want it. To paraphrase what you said: the people who don't have CD players or sufficient space are not my concern, I hate it when people wheel out that stupid argument.

See what I did there?

[TransatlanticFoe]

I already have a CD player, I don't already have a next gen console. Music functionality for next gen consoles is irrelevant, because I have something better suited to the task. Plus I can have music on at the same time as the TV or a video game.

If one box does everything and said box breaks down, you can't do anything. I'd much rather have multiple dedicated devices than a do-it-all magic box.

Maybe the next gen consoles should have record players built in too? Some people still listen to music on vinyl.

[Ed Oscuro]

So why would MS/Sony implement this feature only so as to make the systems more expensive

How gullible are you?

[replayme]

So why would MS/Sony implement this feature only so as to make the systems more expensive

How gullible are you?

Nit-picking much?

[Ed Oscuro]

Throwing your whole argument in the trash is nit-picking, now?

As far as I can tell there's nothing of value there. I laugh if you seriously think that keeping CD (and even SACD) compatibility out of the PS4 is going to save costs.

I don't think you guys realize how similar your arguments (such as they are) are to the anti-physical-media radicals. I swear, I've never understood the enthusiasm for getting less for your money.

[system11]

I already have a CD player, I don't already have a next gen console. Music functionality for next gen consoles is irrelevant, because I have something better suited to the task. Plus I can have music on at the same time as the TV or a video game.

If one box does everything and said box breaks down, you can't do anything. I'd much rather have multiple dedicated devices than a do-it-all magic box.

Maybe the next gen consoles should have record players built in too? Some people still listen to music on vinyl.

The PS4 has an optical drive, it'll be the a simular unit to those found in most of their Blu-Ray players, it's already in the machine, the lack of CD playback is purely a software issue - they could support it if they like with little to no cost. Maybe they will in future, it's not much to ask.

[system11]

Finally, by using your argument (against you - again), why should MS/Sony etc pander to your whims and desires when (in all likelihood) people like you represent the minority. Most people already have an MP3 player, or CD player. Heck, most people don't even use CDs anymore. So why would MS/Sony implement this feature only so as to make the systems more expensive, and to pass this cost on to players who (in most cases) don't even want it. To paraphrase what you said: the people who don't have CD players or sufficient space are not my concern, I hate it when people wheel out that stupid argument.

See what I did there?

Yeah, you got butthurt when I pointed out that the 'something terrible is happening to someone else' argument is stupid. Making an optical drive which can physically already play CD media actually play it isn't going to make it more expensive. It /is/ going to add media functionality to things being aggressively pushed by both sides as media devices though.

[replayme]

Throwing your whole argument in the trash is nit-picking, now?

As far as I can tell there's nothing of value there. I laugh if you seriously think that keeping CD (and even SACD) compatibility out of the PS4 is going to save costs.

I don't think you guys realize how similar your arguments (such as they are) are to the anti-physical-media radicals. I swear, I've never understood the enthusiasm for getting less for your money.

Yeah... Explain that to all the Nintendo fanboys who still insist that the Wii U represents a good value proposition - with overpriced hardware, and less than steller third party suport. Or buying a yesteryear HD release for premium coinage.

To the best of my knowledge, every Nintendo console has never been able to play movies. I'd think movie functionality would be of more paramount importance, seeing as the consoles are used in conjunction with a device capable of outputting audio and visual signals.

A cheap CD player costs about $10-30. Considerably less cheaper than the cost of a PS4/XBone. Why not just buy both? Using the TV/next-gen console alone is going to cost more in terms of "breakdown replacement" and running costs. So how are people getting less for their money?

The point is: I don't really care about playing CDs on my console. I have my hifi, PC etc for that. And like most people, I don't even listen to CDs anymore. Heck, the younger generation considers CDs to be relics from a bygone era.

[TransatlanticFoe]

I already have a CD player, I don't already have a next gen console. Music functionality for next gen consoles is irrelevant, because I have something better suited to the task. Plus I can have music on at the same time as the TV or a video game.

If one box does everything and said box breaks down, you can't do anything. I'd much rather have multiple dedicated devices than a do-it-all magic box.

Maybe the next gen consoles should have record players built in too? Some people still listen to music on vinyl.

The PS4 has an optical drive, it'll be the a simular unit to those found in most of their Blu-Ray players, it's already in the machine, the lack of CD playback is purely a software issue - they could support it if they like with little to no cost. Maybe they will in future, it's not much to ask.

It doesn't matter though, really, does it? They've spent the time getting the software to do things which are actually relevant (games and Blu-Ray playback) so why waste time - no matter how little it would take - on something which isn't important and which isn't going to make them any money? It's never as simple as "just turn it on", at the very least there's software testing procedures to follow and that takes up resource. Everyone who wants to play CDs will already have something to play them on - the same won't be true for next gen games and Blu-Ray discs.

[Ganelon]

So Microsoft matched Sony's small credit benefits with 6 months of free Skype ($30 value) with an Xbone and Gold subscription. There's a big reason why phones with pictures haven't taken off for the last half-century but it'll be interesting to see in action regardless.

As for the PS4's audio format losses, it's difficult to accurately analyze the decision without any data. I bet Sony kept logs of online activity, found that almost nobody often used these services, and calculated that the potential total purchases by these users (based on past spending habits) wouldn't outweigh the eliminated licensing costs and potential Music Unlimited subscription profit.

Remember that Sony already cut its hallmark console feature of backward compatibility (at least offline) to keep costs down. These weren't easy decisions, and I'm certain a lot of data analysis was involved in determining what to give up to keep prices below $400. That's not even factoring in Sony's current precarious financial situation and the fact that it's still selling the PS4 at a loss. Licensing costs for playback formats are minor but at this point, even marginal costs matter and must be justified.

As a consumer, I wouldn't mind paying $5 extra and having just about every audio format supported just in case. That may not be a viable solution to all the stakeholders though. I also don't really mind the current situation but I'd urge folks to be considerate. It's pretty annoying when a feature you care about goes AWOL, as I imagine the few diehard Linux fans felt when Sony blocked that off for PS3.

And regarding the Wii U, I actually feel it offers a clear value proposition on what mainstream gamers are getting. It's been the same for the past 4 console generations (since the N64) now: a novel-looking system filled with Nintendo's newest thoroughly-designed first-party games that take advantage of the system's features. Design is what matters for Nintendo, just as with Apple, which also sells products that are vastly overpriced for their performance but where its fans don't care. This strategy may be far too risky or it may have been what saved Nintendo last gen, but either way, with all its fans, Nintendo is clearly still doing something right.

[Ed Oscuro]

Throwing your whole argument in the trash is nit-picking, now?

As far as I can tell there's nothing of value there. I laugh if you seriously think that keeping CD (and even SACD) compatibility out of the PS4 is going to save costs.

I don't think you guys realize how similar your arguments (such as they are) are to the anti-physical-media radicals. I swear, I've never understood the enthusiasm for getting less for your money.

Yeah... Explain that to all the Nintendo fanboys who still insist that the Wii U represents a good value proposition - with overpriced hardware, and less than steller third party suport. Or buying a yesteryear HD release for premium coinage.

I don't have to, and you yourself obviously don't think the Wii U is a good value, so why should I defend it? That people accept bad things has no bearing on my argument at all. According to your pattern of reasoning, the fact that people sometimes murder other people would mean that murder should be acceptable. Is/ought problem, old friend!

As for the PS4's audio format losses, it's difficult to accurately analyze the decision without any data. I bet Sony kept logs of online activity, found that almost nobody often used these services, and calculated that the potential total purchases by these users (based on past spending habits) wouldn't outweigh the eliminated licensing costs and potential Music Unlimited subscription profit.

Just as likely (and probably more likely) Sony just wanted to make the PS4 a walled garden for music because they thought nobody was paying attention to it. They added MP3s back in due to popular outcry

It's funny that there's so much popular belief that companies only make decisions like this after having done exhaustive studies. I think it's pretty obvious that you can just say "here's our goal: Move people to digital distribution by eliminating support for legacy formats" and doing a study probably isn't even needed. In fact, you can just about bet they didn't do a study, because they reversed their position on MP3 playback (the result of assuming everybody would be happy to ditch their "legacy formats").

Nebulous "licensing costs" still don't answer this: What licensing costs? Sony licensing the right to use CD audio from themselves?

[replayme]

God... Talk about pandering to the wishes of the minority in a mainstream market.

I don't think the Wii U is a good value proposition, but even if it isn't me, can you please account for the fact as to why it has only shipped less than 4 million units in one year? The console, to all intents and purposes, is shit.

You can complain about MS/Sony all you want, over something as pathetic as CD playback, but at least they don't rob you blind over what is essentially yesteryear tech and yesteryear gaming.

£250 for a shit console. £50 for a 10 year old game. If you can justify clutter like that, how dare you argue that buying a portable £20 CD player is going to add to the inventory of your living room. I suggest you get your priorities straight, because it's because of people like you that we'll never go beyond the stone age 8 bit era. Oh wait...

[Lord Satori]

It's because Super Smash Bros 4 isn't out yet.

[Skykid]

£50 for a 10 year old game.

I just spent £150 on a twenty five year old game. Age is no obstacle as far as I'm concerned.

[Ganelon]

I don't think the Wii U is a good value proposition, but even if it isn't me, can you please account for the fact as to why it has only shipped less than 4 million units in one year?

Nintendo's systems are vehicles for its games; it's the design of software that Nintendo is known for, not the design of hardware. Wii U has only had 2 significant exclusive games for most of that time: New Super Mario Bros. U and Pikmin 3. For a system with almost no other draws, 4m sales is pretty reasonable, if not on track to meet estimates. Once Nintendo actually starts releasing quality games on the system, then the Wii U will pick up steam a la the 3DS. Whether that steam is enough to survive in today's market is a separate issue.

I certainly agree that Nintendo squandered its 1-year head start, most likely by once again overestimating 3rd party support. I reckon the project managers remembered the Wii launch too fondly (no such blue ocean for the GamePad it appears) while forgetting the N64 and GCN launches. Nobody is arguing over whether the system components themselves are comparable to Microsoft and Sony's systems. On the other hand, the GamePad adds a tremendous equalizing cost that's often dismissed by naysayers. If you want to look at situation from the other side, Nintendo offered a new way of experimenting with games far different from yesteryear's games but nobody else bit.

If you stop to consider its business situation, Nintendo can't compete solely on technology. It's a losing battle. There are numerous benefits to being as big as Microsoft and Sony are, economies of scale being the most obvious. If Nintendo wants to add its trademark innovation with the system, then the R&D will cost too much.

The question you're probably asking now is why Nintendo can't just release a similar quality system at the same time as everyone else and rely on its exclusives to win out. And I'd say the answer is exactly the complaint you suggested: that Nintendo's new games will resemble yesteryear's games, thereby diluting the quality of its brands, while at the same time costing more the better the technology is. Nintendo tried its hand on similar sequels recently with Super Mario Galaxy 2 and the New Super Mario Bros. series, and people quickly started complaining that the games were too similar. Mixing creativity, fun, and brand connections isn't an easy task. It's easier to focus on new aspects of the hardware than it is to work in a new game mechanic without the benefit of anything else. Long story short, Nintendo can't maintain its current reputation for software by focusing on hardware parity.

[TransatlanticFoe]

God... Talk about pandering to the wishes of the minority in a mainstream market.

I don't think the Wii U is a good value proposition, but even if it isn't me, can you please account for the fact as to why it has only shipped less than 4 million units in one year? The console, to all intents and purposes, is shit.

You can complain about MS/Sony all you want, over something as pathetic as CD playback, but at least they don't rob you blind over what is essentially yesteryear tech and yesteryear gaming.

£250 for a shit console. £50 for a 10 year old game. If you can justify clutter like that, how dare you argue that buying a portable £20 CD player is going to add to the inventory of your living room. I suggest you get your priorities straight, because it's because of people like you that we'll never go beyond the stone age 8 bit era. Oh wait...

There haven't been many games worth buying the console for - that's why barely anyone has bought one. Yes, console itself is only marginally more powerful than the current gen - but the game could be said of the Wii. Which actually did fairly well, probably too well - because the new market it created doesn't really see the need for a new console (or even understand that Wii U is a new console).

Yes the fact that a facelifted version of a 10 year old game is hailed as a killer app is a massive problem and only serves to highlight the comical lack of games (especially ridiculous when you consider the Wii was left to rot post-Skyward Sword). A system is only as good as its games and thus far the Wii U has had little more than Mario plus ports of current gen games. The tech might not be cutting edge but it can still deliver the import bit... just because it hasn't so far, doesn't mean it won't.

Also, a lot of the Wii U's price comes from the tablet controller - strip that out of the equation and you're not really being robbed blind for old tech under the hood.

[Ed Oscuro]

I don't think the Wii U is a good value proposition, but even if it isn't me, can you please account for the fact as to why it has only shipped less than 4 million units in one year?

Why are you so hellbent on having me defend something that I obviously don't want to? I'm not here to talk about what stupid consumers and manipulative companies do. I'm here to say what I think makes sense for gamers. If you had noticed, I used the phrase "anti-consumer" a long while ago.

You have no right to tell me that I need to get my priorities straight. If that wasn't enough to make you look like a fool, then you add on that you think that playing CDs would add 20 pounds (so probably $30 USD) to the price of a console. "Hook, line, and sinker," as we say in the U.S.

[Ganelon]

In other news, there have been quite a few deals popping up for next-gen games in the past few days. The most recent one from Amazon is a b2g1 promotion for anybody interested in 3 PS4 launch titles and doesn't want Need for Speed Rivals: http://www.amazon.com/gp/feature.html?i ... 1001500321

Perhaps we'll see more surprises come Black Friday. I'm still hoping for some surprise PSN announcements before the 15th.

[Domino]

Speaking of factual things, I see also that Audio CDs and SACD are not to be supported by the PS4 - at least I haven't seen Sony changing course about those as well. That instantly disqualifies the PS4 as having any claim to the "do-everything box" title, in my view.

No offence, but nobody cared too much that later PS3 models removed SACD support. The real users of SACD will not even use a consumer device for sensitive audio playback of CDs/SACDs. Shit, even the SACD playback on the PS3 is flawed (DSD to PCM conversation).

The more important question is how many people know what the hell are SACDs?

[replayme]

Ggg

[replayme]

£50 for a 10 year old game.

I just spent £150 on a twenty five year old game. Age is no obstacle as far as I'm concerned.

We're not talking about antiques here. Just antiquated views...