Hardest games (again!)

[Obiwanshinobi]

You wouldn't believe how hard it is to play the original Burnout without crashing. Survival is just an unlockable game mode, though.
Soldiers: Heroes of World War II was - according to some reviews - like Commandos made harder, which sounds intimidating, but I only played tutorial back in the day.

[Ruldra]

Rick Dangerous is an official release and is pretty much a platform hell. Getting past the first stage alone is already a huge feat. Give it a try here.

[Chaos Phoenixma]

I don't know how different the loop on Pink Sweets is on PCB if at all or in full run vs. training. But in the 360 port stages 2-1 to 2-3 I was able to do no death at max rank assuming starting at max power. And well, every other stage after that I have no idea how you survive even in loop 1.

Version 1.01 Extended is clearable and has been done, but obviously we're talking 1.00/arcade. But yeah, based on the port in training mode, I have to say it's theoretically possible, but I obviously can't comment on the mode with PCB + I can't even 1cc anyway.



Diablo III's Inferno used to be completely ridiculous when the PC version launched, but you can't play that version of Inferno now. I'm not sure how doable Inferno Monster Power 10(or Master V on console) compares since I didn't get the PC version and therefore will never experience prenerf Inferno, but when I tried even Master 1 on my SC Wizard on PS3, I get destroyed already due to my bad gear. I won't even touch Master modes on my Monk since that's a hardcore character so permadeath and I want the Hardcore Inferno challenge since Inferno MP0/Easy is well easy.

[drauch]

I wouldn't recommend "X game on X difficulty." That broadens it wayyyy too much. I'm sure you're looking for something that's difficult at a Normal setting, right?

Then we'd end up with a bunch of ancient 2D kusoge because nothing is hard on Normal

Oh, I'm sorry omnipotent game master. "This esoteric Japanese shmup is really difficult after you beat it the first time and have to do a second loop if you limit yourself and do it on one credit." Would be a great article!

Taking a game and adjusting the difficulty or limiting yourself is just such an easy way to make anything hard. It just doesn't make a compelling list in my eyes. Maybe if the list was focused on "Games With Extremely Hard Alternate Difficulties." Barney's Hide and Seek for Genesis is extremely hard playing with your feet and your eyes closed.

On topic:
Exile 2: Wicked Phenomenon U.S. version was even deemed impossible by developers. They gave one boss insane HP on accident and never fixed it. Working Designs fucked up Popful Mail as well. Almost zero invincibility frames when you get hit.

I'd second the Souls series. Definitely possible, but always difficult and with a steep learning curve.

NAM, the GTInteractive BuildEngine game. So brutal. Love the game, and the soundtrack is killer, but mines are everywhere, bombs fall from the sky without warning, snipers in trees, and unlimited enemies.

Seems like a lot of dungeon crawlers and roguelikes could follow under this lot. I'm sure Cmoon or JonathanIngram could chime in on some of the harder ones that are less forgiving.

[cicada88]

Super Mario Bros. 2, Japanese Famicom Disk version

[Neathyr]

Seems like a lot of dungeon crawlers and roguelikes could follow under this lot. I'm sure Cmoon or JonathanIngram could chime in on some of the harder ones that are less forgiving.

Well, there's the Izuna series (DS exclusive). Be warned, though: you get to keep your level after you die, so you might lose interest to keep yourself alive along the way, since you can just grind and level up to avoid defeat. And when someone joins you, he/she is vastly underleveled, forcing you to grind for a while until he/she can keep up.

[Zerst]

For example, these titles seem to keep being mentioned:

• MegaMan
• Contra
• Battletoads
• Ghost N' Goblins

No. These games are not difficult at all. They are just popular games that "game journalists" who are invariably bad at games hivemind over even though they've never actually played any of them since they were kids.

Compare them to something like the Terminator arcade game mentioned in the quarter munchers thread. That may very well be near the top of the list. I've played so many arcade games that it would be completely impractical to count, and that is the only one I've seen that I genuinely believe will never be beaten by a human player.

[Squire Grooktook]

Mega Man is not hard at all. You can beat any Mega Man game in a day if you're half decent.

Most Contras are pretty fair. Contra 1 in particular is eeeeeaaaassssyyy

Battletoads is complete bullshit.

Ghosts and Goblins is hard but really really fun.

[Obiwanshinobi]

Many games technically can't be beaten and some of them don't ever stop getting harder.
Case in point - Spectre Supreme.

[TransatlanticFoe]

Grand Prix 2 with no driver aids.

[Bananamatic]

Oh, I'm sorry omnipotent game master. "This esoteric Japanese shmup is really difficult after you beat it the first time and have to do a second loop if you limit yourself and do it on one credit." Would be a great article!

Taking a game and adjusting the difficulty or limiting yourself is just such an easy way to make anything hard. It just doesn't make a compelling list in my eyes. Maybe if the list was focused on "Games With Extremely Hard Alternate Difficulties." Barney's Hide and Seek for Genesis is extremely hard playing with your feet and your eyes closed.

listing only obscure games from the 80s that are difficult for all the bad reasons(or fanmade games that were made extremely/asshole hard on purpose) is just as bad

hard modes aren't "alternate" difficulties, any game with difficulty choices gives you multiple options with no default(unlike arcade games) - it's like saying DOJWL isn't hard because the loop is optional
also i didn't mention self imposed challenges anywhere dude, it's common sense that if you count Ketsui's ura loop, it's fair to consider the hardest difficulty of a console game

also there is playing games at a very basic clear level(Pink Sweets infinite lives, farming red orbs and spamming holy waters in DMC3 at every encounter while getting a D rating every mission) and playing it well(Pink Sweets scoring, going for high ranks in DMC3)

[CIT]

I'd say the most difficult platformer is Takahashi Meijin no Boukenjima on Famicom.

Although, spadgy, do you mean difficult as in extremely challenging, or do you also include games that are difficult in a stupid way because of major design flaws or programming errors?

Wizardry 2 is direct sequel to Wizardry, and if you get wiped out, you have to finish Wizardry 1 again, which is already fist-chewingly hard.

I thought Wizardry IV is generally considered the hardest in the series.

[Koa Zo]

Batman and Robin for Sega CD.
toughest I can think of.

I can't speak well to how hard it is because I only recently played it for the first time.
From what I've experienced, the game expands on the driving scenes of its "prequel" Batman Returns.
Those Batman Returns driving levels were already challenging but tuned to the degree that I could always feel progress for trying again.
Batman and Robin ups the ante significantly right from the start. Weapon system is evolved and perhaps adds difficulty, and then the road is filled with other cars, at times requiring you to pass on the sidewalk in order to not damage civilian vehicles.
During the attract screens we can see that there are varied vehicles and gameplay scenarios, most of which look even harder.

If I'm not mistaken, I remember Batman and Robin being spoken of as a Sega CD games which no one could beat.

[CStarFlare]

Maybe spadgy could help us out by setting some criteria for the list. The hardest games to... ? Achieving the primary objective period? Achieving the primary objective in one continue? Mastery beyond the primary objective? (I'm staying away from "finishing" because there are a significant number of games without a defined endpoint). Does the source of the difficulty matter (are the game's expectations high, or is its design bad)?

I assume things that can be considered humanly impossible are out of the running.

Not that the discussion isn't interesting as it is, but for the purpose of compiling a list we'll be more useful if the list is a little more well defined.

[drauch]

Oh, I'm sorry omnipotent game master. "This esoteric Japanese shmup is really difficult after you beat it the first time and have to do a second loop if you limit yourself and do it on one credit." Would be a great article!

Taking a game and adjusting the difficulty or limiting yourself is just such an easy way to make anything hard. It just doesn't make a compelling list in my eyes. Maybe if the list was focused on "Games With Extremely Hard Alternate Difficulties." Barney's Hide and Seek for Genesis is extremely hard playing with your feet and your eyes closed.

listing only obscure games from the 80s that are difficult for all the bad reasons(or fanmade games that were made extremely/asshole hard on purpose) is just as bad

hard modes aren't "alternate" difficulties, any game with difficulty choices gives you multiple options with no default(unlike arcade games) - it's like saying DOJWL isn't hard because the loop is optional
also i didn't mention self imposed challenges anywhere dude, it's common sense that if you count Ketsui's ura loop, it's fair to consider the hardest difficulty of a console game

also there is playing games at a very basic clear level(Pink Sweets infinite lives, farming red orbs and spamming holy waters in DMC3 at every encounter while getting a D rating every mission) and playing it well(Pink Sweets scoring, going for high ranks in DMC3)

Fan-made and doujin, yeah, shouldn't be on the list. But where are these "obscure" games you mention? But it's okay to include a niche sub-genre based almost solely in Japanese arcades where you must clear the game with only 1 credit that you designate for yourself. This isn't common sense for the average gamer who would probably be reading this article.

Arcade games are kinda tricky for a list like this. I think Spadgy's input would probably help further this list, otherwise it would be loaded with arcade games with exclaimers on not credit feeding, looping the game, etc.

[cicada88]

battletoads

[AntiFritz]

Devil May Cry 3 on DMD difficulty

How does Bayonetta on the hardest difficulty compare? I imagine it could be even tougher if you're going for pure platinums (haven't played it so I'm just guessing here).

I could never beat dmc4 on dmd (could never get past berial) and I never won dmc3 se on hard (although it's been years since I played). But I could beat bayonetta on non stop infinite climax. Assuming you don't care about stone rank, it's not too hard to go through if you continue a few times.

Now getting all the crows on the other hand....

[Bananamatic]

But where are these "obscure" games you mention?

I'm pretty certain there are some really old stinkers that manage to be ridiculously hard for whatever reason

I could never beat dmc4 on dmd (could never get past berial)

DMC4 DMD was fairly challenging but much easier than DMC3's, DMC4 Dante is ridiculous though with his skill ceiling. I'd say it's one of the most complex things in a singleplayer game out there. Fortunately you can just Real Impact through the bosses and spam Stinger or basic Gilgamesh combos for everything else. Plus the DT in this game gives you lots of I-frames on activation. The bosses were pushovers too and the camera was much better.

[GaijinPunch]

Top 6... for the most part you're going to piss off tons of people. You might as well call it "Random 6 fucking hard games". I would also only use factory defaults. You're going to have to explain the concept of non-credit-feeding.

If you want to talk 3D platformers of a semi-recent generation, Shinobi for PS2 is probably on a similar tier as the Ninja Gaidens (ducks). Kunoichi wasn't easy either but not quite as hard.

Guevara / Guerilla War - Brutal. Just fucking brutal. Pink Sweets tier.

One of the Namco platformers is supposed to be a total asshole. I can't remember if it was Kyuukai Chuudoki or Jigoku Meguri.

Saigo no Nindou is supposed to be a bitch.

I always thought Gain Ground was a mother fucker for an arcade. 40 stages... and there are some shitty ones early on.

[Pretas]

battletoads

One of the most overblown examples of "Nintendo hard" difficulty. It's only because of the Turbo Tunnel that it gained its reputation, and that's just raw timing and memorization.

Jigoku Mekuri is Taito, not Namco. Are you confusing it with Genpei Toumaden? Kyuukai Chuudoki is a baseball game.

Saigo no Nindou/Ninja Spirit isn't too bad, because you have a weapon for every situation and they're all really effective when powered up.

[GaijinPunch]

Jigoku Mekuri is Taito, not Namco.

Indeed.

Are you confusing it with Genpei Toumaden?

No, but that one is apparenlty a bitch too.

Kyuukai Chuudoki is a baseball game.

Also right. Before I have to hand in my geek card....
Youkai Chuudouki. Memory ain't what it used to be. Again, I'm not familiar w/ this other than it's reputation.　 Apparently it's "harder on the PC-Engine" as they ditched continues, even though some stages are shortened. According to Wikipedia anyway.

[Skykid]

Image Fight II.

[Ed Oscuro]

Mega Man is not hard at all. You can beat any Mega Man game in a day if you're half decent.

That area where you have to jump across platforms that dip (and drop you off) whenever they get to an opening seems damn difficult to me, though. Haven't seen anything like that in other games.

[Pretas]

Rockman & Forte is brutal, particularly when playing as Rockman who can't double jump or fire in 7 directions. I've owned the GBA port since 2003 and still haven't beaten King.

[CIT]

Image Fight II.

Hmm, I 1LC'd it, so it can't be hard. ^^

[Bloodreign]

Marvel Land on the Genesis is a complete and utter bitch to beat, Namco platformer known as Talmit's Adventure in Europe and as Marvel Land in arcades. The Genesis versions longer than the arcade game, and everything in there is out to kill you in 1 hit.

[Jonst]

Like gaijinpunch mentioned,I've heard shinobi ps2 is gets frustratingly hard,I've heard this a few times.i have it but havn't had the chance to play it myself yet.

[GaijinPunch]

Like gaijinpunch mentioned,I've heard shinobi ps2 is gets frustratingly hard,I've heard this a few times.i have it but havn't had the chance to play it myself yet.

It has controller breaking difficulty, but as most of us (at least the older crowd) knows, difficulty isn't a very static term. Shinobi PS2 is hard as fuck, however, you can respawn and continue ad naseum, and eventually get the "clear". However, it will frustrate the balls off of you. I played Kunoichi first which is slightly easier but it's still a whore.

[Jonst]

^ is it worth suffering through though? Does it have endearing sega qualities? I liked the sound if it and I am a sega fanboy,which is why I bought it but never made time to get stuck in...

[Skykid]

Image Fight II.

Hmm, I 1LC'd it, so it can't be hard. ^^

Good work soldier. Now you have to beat the last boss on Body Blows (amiga). There's 1k in store for you if you're successful.