I almost got attacked last night...

Ramus · Post by **Ramus** » Fri Nov 11, 2005 6:01 pm

I wasn't saying that martial arts was going to get you a win or that it wouldn't give you false hope. It just teaches you to think and gives you a better chance at success. I don't think weight lifting involves much thinking. To be honest, a gun is probably the best bet on taking someone out. I was trying to give Circuit advice on a better chance of survival without the use of a weapon of some sort. No matter what he does, there is still a chance that he will get beat down or killed even if he had the gun. It's all chance.

PaCrappa · Post by **PaCrappa** » Fri Nov 11, 2005 6:04 pm

I understand your fear, but in all honesty, I believe you handled last night's situation 110% perfectly. I mean jeez, not only did you totally defuse the negativity coming your way, but you made the army guy cry. I'd rather do that than have a fight any day of the week.

Thing is, most folks in the USA live in fear. No this isn't "Farenheit 9-11" starring Michael Moore, it's just that most people are afraid. Stumbling upon that realization in my early twenties has made me feel safer ever since. Very few people are really looking to fight. And even the ones that are, are usually still afraid. Perhaps the easiest thing in the world when confronted is to pull out a cellphone and say "I'm not going to fight you but I will happily call 911 if you don't leave me alone immediately." I've seen this work.

Where are you again? Is it Phoenix? Man, there are plenty of reasonably sized cities in the world that are a hell of alot less crazy than Phoenix. You definitely don't have to move to the boonies to avoid a large cross-section of assholes. And of course, the boonies come complete with potentially dangerous assholes as well. One thing is certain, hiding from potential problems isn't going to make you feel safe.

Pa

landshark · Post by **landshark** » Fri Nov 11, 2005 6:04 pm

circuitface wrote: Even if i do have to draw on someone then i'll just threaten to shoot there knees and detain them until the police arrive.

Nooooo no no. You won't shoot them in the knees. Many gun fights are nothing but complete misses at less than 10 feet, while aiming for the body.

When your adrenaline is pumping, bad lighting, etc ... it's difficult to hit tiny pieces of meat (knees). If you miss, where is the bullet going? It's going to bounce around and possibly hit an innocent - then you are in shit.

I'm very pro-gun, but you will definitely need to take classes, and practice regularly if you carry (biweekly).

Also, I 100% agree with PaCrappa's advice for martial arts.

PaCrappa · Post by **PaCrappa** » Fri Nov 11, 2005 6:11 pm

I'm not an advocate for martial arts! COMBAT SPORTS

The difference is huger than bold type can convey. But I'm off to my COMBAT SPORTS training as soon as I fuel up on a banana and an apple so I'll attempt to explain later.

Pa

captain ahar · Post by **captain ahar** » Fri Nov 11, 2005 6:22 pm

well, pa. you could make the type bold and big in caps

likea dissa...

COMBAT SPORTS

JBC · Post by **JBC** » Fri Nov 11, 2005 6:22 pm

I'm a really thin, little guy. I guess i'm a target because of it. I honestly cannot begin to tell you how familiar i am with the feeling of getting punched in the nose - or the feeling of having bruised knuckles. I'm not defenseless - but i'm also at an extreme disadvantage.

At least i can admit that - i HAVE to, for my wife's sake. I'm just not big enough to take on everybody no matter how confident or skilled i am. I'm buying that gun because i REFUSE to let anything take her away from me like that. That's not gonna happen in MY life.

BTW... This whole 'fight' thing isn't something i talk about with people in person. I try to be peaceful and avoid anything that carries bad energy along with it. I don't ever wanna come off as a shit-talker and so i usually just avoid these conversations. All you fella's know what i'm talking about - almost every group of guys gets into these discussions about how someone kicked so and so's ass and this and that. I can't stand that

- but to make my point i've won some and i've lost some - just like everybody else. I know i'm little and i can even admit that i get a bit nervous - but i'll be damned if i ever just LET someone beat me down. If i can be that way about myself than i can sure as shit be that way about my wife. THAT's why i want the gun.

Not to mention that if someone holds us at gunpoint and tries to do something horrible... they may not realize i have one too and i can wait for my chance to prevent... anything they may try to do.

PFG 9000 · Post by **PFG 9000** » Fri Nov 11, 2005 6:24 pm

The n00b wrote:And you don't think your fancy martial art gives you false confidence and makes you prey to stupid mistakes? Forumers I point you to the episode of the office where Michael proceeds to lay the smackdown on an employee who thinks he is a karate hero.

I think an important distinction between martial arts and straight weight training is that martial arts train your mind as well. You don't just learn how to beat the crap out of random people. You learn when to use your skills, how to use them effectively, and most importantly, you learn to recognize the limits of those skills. I've only had the most superficial of self defense training, so if somebody with more knowledge on the matter can correct me, please do.

JBC · Post by **JBC** » Fri Nov 11, 2005 6:26 pm

And yes it's Phoenix...

You'd figure people would calm down now that it's not so hot anymore...

sven666 · Post by **sven666** » Fri Nov 11, 2005 6:42 pm

the US is fucked up.. over here getting a gun isnt even an option.

your gunlaws are fucked up beyond recognition when even the kid at the gas-station is packing.

i dont even know anyone that knows anyone that owns a gun, think about it...

Post by **Dave_K.** » Fri Nov 11, 2005 6:45 pm

PaCrappa wrote: I suggest Brazilian Jiu Jitsu instead. It's an important skill that you can use in many situations. Choking someone to sleep is much easier to explain your way out of than "He cursed me so I blasted his ass officer. I was worried."

Just curious, so how is nearly choking someone to death (cutting off their blood supply to the brain, possibly causing brain damage) any better? Just because it doesn't leave any real marks of a fight? Also how good do you need to be at Combat Sports to pull something like this off correctly without actually choking them to death?

Super Laydock · Post by **Super Laydock** » Fri Nov 11, 2005 6:53 pm

circuitface wrote:Anyway let's try not to turn this into a gun-control flame war thread, ok?

sven666 wrote:the US is fucked up.. over here getting a gun isnt even an option.

your gunlaws are fucked up beyond recognition when even the kid at the gas-station is packing.

i dont even know anyone that knows anyone that owns a gun, think about it...

Against request made in thread, but still I totally agree with Sven666.

It's fucked to be able to buy guns at "supermarkets"!

sven666 · Post by **sven666** » Fri Nov 11, 2005 6:58 pm

Super Laydock wrote:
circuitface wrote:Anyway let's try not to turn this into a gun-control flame war thread, ok?

sven666 wrote:the US is fucked up.. over here getting a gun isnt even an option.

your gunlaws are fucked up beyond recognition when even the kid at the gas-station is packing.

i dont even know anyone that knows anyone that owns a gun, think about it...
Against request made in thread, but still I totally agree with Sven666.

It's fucked to be able to buy guns at "supermarkets"!

uuh yeah sorry bout that.

anyways (concidering US gun statistics) if you pull a gun chances are the guy your pointing it at has one too which means one of you is going home wrapped in plastic tonight.

id take a beating over getting shot anyday...

JBC · Post by **JBC** » Fri Nov 11, 2005 6:58 pm

sven666 wrote:the US is fucked up.. over here getting a gun isnt even an option.

your gunlaws are fucked up beyond recognition when even the kid at the gas-station is packing.

i dont even know anyone that knows anyone that owns a gun, think about it...

Tell me about it. You should hear some of the stories these cops come into the station with. They come in every night and stock up on doughnuts (no kidding) and they always share the day's horrible atrocities with me. That whole 'axe' thing i was 'kidding' about earlier... nah ah.

I almost got hit with a garbage bag full of dead animals once when i first moved down here. I would've beat the shit out of that guy... i couldn't believe i was faced with that. I'm thinking "OMG, this guy is crazed, brandishing a garbage sack full of roadkill, cussing like a mexican sailor, and he's pissed at ME... What the fuck am i gonna do!?! He's not hitting me with THAT, that's for sure..."

JBC · Post by **JBC** » Fri Nov 11, 2005 7:18 pm

I just sent my mom an email.

"These people have gone off the rails on a crazy train. Mama, I'm comin' home."

She'll laugh her ass off.

EDIT - this CAN be a gun-control thread. Let's just leave the flaming' part out, ok?

Acid King · Post by **Acid King** » Fri Nov 11, 2005 7:45 pm

PaCrappa wrote:Man. There are people who would just take that silly gun away from a kid who's scared to use it. You'd be better off building your own confidence. And anyway, what do you tell the cops after you shoot an unarmed man? Or some stupid guy with an axe (LOL) that you could have just run from?

This isn't "Damnation Alley" starring Jan-Michael Vincent. You bring a gun into a real life equation and you might suddenly find yourself far deeper in bullshit than you can even begin to comprehend from your current vantage point.

Boxing, kickboxing, wrestling, Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. Pick one. Get confident. Kick ass. If you get shot, at least you went out like a man. If you beat the living tar out of some stupid inbred fuck, at least you don't face a murder charge.

Pa

Now now, Pa, in 1964 a Louisiana court ruled that shooting a thief in the spine was a legitimate citizens arrest. He lives in Arizona, if he shoots someone that poses a serious threat to him, they aren't going to try to send him up for murder, especially in a situation where he's being attacked or his store is being robbed (if the firearm ownership is legal, of course). I would hope that most every gas station has a gun or a bat behind the counter. I'd say if you get a gun, it's better to just leave it at home or at work. If you want to carry something, pepper spray or learning some "combat sports" is a bit better, since I don't know how the gun laws work in AZ and carrying a gun would be a pain in the ass.

the US is fucked up.. over here getting a gun isnt even an option.

your gunlaws are fucked up beyond recognition when even the kid at the gas-station is packing.

i dont even know anyone that knows anyone that owns a gun, think about it...

Tell that to all the people who used their guns in the aftermath of hurricane katrina to defend themselves from looters and other criminals. Though the situations where they come in truly handy are fairly rare, having an armed population is not a bad thing at all.

JBC · Post by **JBC** » Fri Nov 11, 2005 7:48 pm

Tell that to all the people who used their guns in the aftermath of hurricane katrina to defend themselves from looters and other criminals. Though the situations where they come in truly handy are fairly rare, having an armed population is not a bad thing at all.

My mom is STILL carrying her gun...

Fighter17 · Post by **Fighter17** » Fri Nov 11, 2005 8:32 pm

sven666 wrote:the US is fucked up.. over here getting a gun isnt even an option.

your gunlaws are fucked up beyond recognition when even the kid at the gas-station is packing.

i dont even know anyone that knows anyone that owns a gun, think about it...

Where you from?

I used to live in Brooklyn (Canarsie) in New York City, and if you own a gas station, you better get a fucking gun. Too many blacks, and latinos robbing gas stations in Brooklyn. I left Brooklyn to move to Florida because the crime rate was out of control in Canarsie.

jordy · Post by **jordy** » Fri Nov 11, 2005 8:44 pm

Acid King wrote:
Tell that to all the people who used their guns in the aftermath of hurricane katrina to defend themselves from looters and other criminals. Though the situations where they come in truly handy are fairly rare, having an armed population is not a bad thing at all.

Violence begets violence. Comments like yours make me really wonder how america has not swallowed itself up. Tell all the families of victims of schoolyard killings that a armed population is not such a bad thing. Guns are illegal where I come from and to the best of my knowledge there has never been an incident of a 5 year old shooting his classmates, etc. Coincidence??? I think not.

Sorry if this is a against the premise of the original thread.

MOSQUITO FIGHTER · Post by **MOSQUITO FIGHTER** » Fri Nov 11, 2005 8:58 pm

Learn the location of the Kidney and know it well. Throat punches work very well also. Perhaps while you're learning Jiu Jitsu you could acquire some pepper spray and master the spitting cobra attack. I'm sure that you're cash register weighs a hefty amount also.

I'd say let the cop's shoot the jerk if need be. I personally would not want to risk taking another persons life. I hear that in these situations often people get kind of caught up in the moment and empty the entire clip from the gun.

Perhaps you could find a job that is not as dangerous. No need to even be in that type of situation if it could be avoided.

The n00b · Post by **The n00b** » Fri Nov 11, 2005 9:02 pm

jordy wrote:
Acid King wrote:
Tell that to all the people who used their guns in the aftermath of hurricane katrina to defend themselves from looters and other criminals. Though the situations where they come in truly handy are fairly rare, having an armed population is not a bad thing at all.
Violence begets violence. Comments like yours make me really wonder how america has not swallowed itself up. Tell all the families of victims of schoolyard killings that a armed population is not such a bad thing. Guns are illegal where I come from and to the best of my knowledge there has never been an incident of a 5 year old shooting his classmates, etc. Coincidence??? I think not.

Sorry if this is a against the premise of the original thread.

It sounds like you are better off living in Europe: Parts of which that just weeks ago were wracked by riots.... Boy those French are paying for their history of covered up racism. Why can't Europe be as integrated as America? I heard they only take baths once a week in Europe... Guns would solve Europe's problems.

Those are all valid comments that I could make about Europe. It's not right to impose my values on a foreign society though just like what you are doing smacks of ignorance.

America is fine the way it is. We're a violent society, I won't argue with that but outlawing guns doesn't make sense. It only takes them out of the hands of law abiding citizens while criminals have no problem getting them. Private Gun ownership allowed law abiding citizens to defend their neighborhoods post-katrina. This is why most hurricane afflicted areas saw limited looting, they came to take care of themselves until the Gov arrived. Sure violence SOMETIMES begets violence but SOMETIMES it begets peace.

Super Laydock · Post by **Super Laydock** » Fri Nov 11, 2005 9:13 pm

The n00b wrote: America is fine the way it is. We're a violent society, I won't argue with that but outlawing guns doesn't make sense. It only takes them out of the hands of law abiding citizens while criminals have no problem getting them.

If you're talking about "hardcore"criminals you are probably right, as here in Europe they get the guns they want as well. But think about the amount of "wannabe" criminals" who don't have the network to get weapons if they were illegal. They wouldn't be (or pressed hard to) able to get a gun.
That would mean A LOT less weapons in the hands of wannabees and no doubt make the society at least a little bit less "trigger-happy".

America is paying the price for it's fire arms legislation. I couln't get a gun like the ones on sale in the US in regular markets even if I wanted to.

jordy · Post by **jordy** » Fri Nov 11, 2005 9:15 pm

The n00b wrote:
jordy wrote:
Acid King wrote:
Tell that to all the people who used their guns in the aftermath of hurricane katrina to defend themselves from looters and other criminals. Though the situations where they come in truly handy are fairly rare, having an armed population is not a bad thing at all.
Violence begets violence. Comments like yours make me really wonder how america has not swallowed itself up. Tell all the families of victims of schoolyard killings that a armed population is not such a bad thing. Guns are illegal where I come from and to the best of my knowledge there has never been an incident of a 5 year old shooting his classmates, etc. Coincidence??? I think not.

Sorry if this is a against the premise of the original thread.
It sounds like you are better off living in Europe: Parts of which that just weeks ago were wracked by riots.... Boy those French are paying for their history of covered up racism. Why can't Europe be as integrated as America? I heard they only take baths once a week in Europe... Guns would solve Europe's problems.

Those are all valid comments that I could make about Europe. It's not right to impose my values on a foreign society though just like what you are doing smacks of ignorance.

America is fine the way it is. We're a violent society, I won't argue with that but outlawing guns doesn't make sense. It only takes them out of the hands of law abiding citizens while criminals have no problem getting them. Private Gun ownership allowed law abiding citizens to defend their neighborhoods post-katrina. This is why most hurricane afflicted areas saw limited looting, they came to take care of themselves until the Gov arrived. Sure violence SOMETIMES begets violence but SOMETIMES it begets peace.

I dont really understand the link between the violence in Paris and gun ownership, but that maybe just be my ignorance speaking.
Anywys not the time or the place to be having such a discussion.
Sorry if I offended any Americans with my comments.
peace.

J.

sven666 · Post by **sven666** » Fri Nov 11, 2005 9:27 pm

Fighter17 wrote:
Where you from?

I used to live in Brooklyn (Canarsie) in New York City, and if you own a gas station, you better get a fucking gun. Too many blacks, and latinos robbing gas stations in Brooklyn. I left Brooklyn to move to Florida because the crime rate was out of control in Canarsie.

sweden.

yeah we have blacks, latinos, arabs, jews, gooks (hell even americans

) over here too.

..and regardless of race violence is still a terrible crime here.
a shooting (even if no-ones killed) is front page news here.

and thats the way it should be, if you think the soulution to violence and crime is to supress it with more violence youre part of the problem.

sethsez · Post by **sethsez** » Fri Nov 11, 2005 9:36 pm

jordy wrote:I dont really understand the link between the violence in Paris and gun ownership

The point is that America being a violent society due to legal gun ownership is ass backwards.

sven666 · Post by **sven666** » Fri Nov 11, 2005 9:53 pm

sethsez wrote:
jordy wrote:I dont really understand the link between the violence in Paris and gun ownership
The point is that America being a violent society due to legal gun ownership is ass backwards.

the riots in france are about lowerclass citizens are being opressed by the government, it has nothing to do with gun politics nor do guns play any significant part in the riots.

violence is everywhere, the difference is how people choose to handle it.
over here the community as a whole dont tolerate it while in the US everyone seems to turn a blind eye, survival of the most prepared...

The n00b · Post by **The n00b** » Fri Nov 11, 2005 10:06 pm

sven666 wrote:
sethsez wrote:
jordy wrote:I dont really understand the link between the violence in Paris and gun ownership
The point is that America being a violent society due to legal gun ownership is ass backwards.
the riots in france are about lowerclass citizens are being opressed by the government, it has nothing to do with gun politics nor do guns play any significant part in the riots.

violence is everywhere, the difference is how people choose to handle it.
over here the community as a whole dont tolerate it while in the US everyone seems to turn a blind eye, survival of the most prepared...

Actually Americans have no tolerance for the kind of violence expressed in France. I would argue that where you're at people tend to take it easy, wait for the people to burn off some energy, the fires to burn themselves out, etc. In America people are more likely to form neighborhood associations. They don't care about why you are invading their neighborhood acting like idiots, burning cars, and beating people. All they see are a couple idiots trying to start trouble with their neighbors. Eventually when pressed, Americans will band together, man the guns, and fight off said rioting idiots.

Now I could say some pretty bad things about the attitude of "letting boys be boys" but I won't. If it works for European society, fine. Europe has survived for hundreds of years without American advice, they probably know what they are doing.

However, I also claim the same right for American society. What works for us, works for us.

sethsez · Post by **sethsez** » Fri Nov 11, 2005 10:11 pm

sven666 wrote:the riots in france are about lowerclass citizens are being opressed by the government, it has nothing to do with gun politics nor do guns play any significant part in the riots.

Exactly the point. The violence level of a society and the weapons it chooses to outlaw or allow aren't really related.

over here the community as a whole dont tolerate it while in the US everyone seems to turn a blind eye, survival of the most prepared...

FUNDAMENTAL PROBLEM:

You're treating "the US" as a single, unified whole when it comes to this issue. It isn't, by a longshot. It's like talking about "Europe." Compare the social mores and political affiliations of people from the northeast, the midwest, the deep south, and central-coastal California. Things that would get you run out of town in one area would get you elected mayor in another. Furthermore, gun laws vary quite a bit from state to state. Some places it's very easy to get them, others it's extremely difficult.

sven666 · Post by **sven666** » Fri Nov 11, 2005 11:28 pm

sethsez wrote:
You're treating "the US" as a single, unified whole when it comes to this issue. It isn't, by a longshot. It's like talking about "Europe." Compare the social mores and political affiliations of people from the northeast, the midwest, the deep south, and central-coastal California. Things that would get you run out of town in one area would get you elected mayor in another. Furthermore, gun laws vary quite a bit from state to state. Some places it's very easy to get them, others it's extremely difficult.

yeah maybe i was a bit general in my statement, sry bout that.

but still, gunplay is out of control and i hardly think pushing more guns into the eqation is the solution, id like to think that society and human values have risen above "kill or be killed" mentality regardless of geography.

i just know that i wouldnt want to live in a society where anyone had weapons with ridiculous destructive power at their fingertips at any time... but if youre stroking your M16 as youre reading this i doubt youll understand that.

sethsez · Post by **sethsez** » Fri Nov 11, 2005 11:34 pm

I've never touched a gun and I doubt I ever will, nor am I friends with anyone who owns a gun. That doesn't change what I'm saying.

TWITCHDOCTOR · Post by **TWITCHDOCTOR** » Fri Nov 11, 2005 11:56 pm

circuitface wrote:I'm a really thin, little guy. I guess i'm a target because of it. I honestly cannot begin to tell you how familiar i am with the feeling of getting punched in the nose - or the feeling of having bruised knuckles. I'm not defenseless - but i'm also at an extreme disadvantage.

At least i can admit that - i HAVE to, for my wife's sake. I'm just not big enough to take on everybody no matter how confident or skilled i am. I'm buying that gun because i REFUSE to let anything take her away from me like that. That's not gonna happen in MY life.

BTW... This whole 'fight' thing isn't something i talk about with people in person. I try to be peaceful and avoid anything that carries bad energy along with it. I don't ever wanna come off as a shit-talker and so i usually just avoid these conversations. All you fella's know what i'm talking about - almost every group of guys gets into these discussions about how someone kicked so and so's ass and this and that. I can't stand that

- but to make my point i've won some and i've lost some - just like everybody else. I know i'm little and i can even admit that i get a bit nervous - but i'll be damned if i ever just LET someone beat me down. If i can be that way about myself than i can sure as shit be that way about my wife. THAT's why i want the gun.

Not to mention that if someone holds us at gunpoint and tries to do something horrible... they may not realize i have one too and i can wait for my chance to prevent... anything they may try to do.

Dude, I thought you were a fucking vampire!!! You're imortal aren't you!? And you're afriad of some bruised knuckles?
Just fly up in the air and bite the guys neck off completely...that way he won't become a blood sucking beast of the night as well.