I got SOJ since release on 360, and I'm still getting annihilated in Arcade Mode.
The bullets are just so freaking fast, and the "crisscrossing X" bullet patterns combined with the "fireworks" spreading bullets...ugh. I'm still as bad as I was a month ago.
For starters, i just want to be able to beat the first 2 bosses without bombing (using Type A-S). The 1st stage boss's final bullet pattern still gets me occasionally, and the 2nd stage boss's third-ish bullet pattern, up to the one before its final bullet pattern still gets me. I've practiced against the bosses for HOURS upon HOURS with little progress.
Any suggestions how to get better, besides just play moar? I've done that. Specific training regimens? Drawing and mapping out boss bullet patterns? How to increase precise ship-moving skills? Dodge routines when you see a particular incoming bullet pattern?
I've read that shmup treatise, Full Extent of the Jam, and while helpful generally, with tips like bullet herding, etc., SOJ as far as I know is not emulated to practice with saved states.
P.S. Someone recommended awhile back that I downgrade to DDP Resurrection....I do pretty okay in that game, but I want to get good at THIS game.
I've watched playthroughs, with people humping the top of the screen to build hypers fast....no....I'm not at that level yet. I just want to increase my basic, analytical, bullet dodging skills.
RQ: How to get better at dodging bullets in Saidaioujou?
Re: RQ: How to get better at dodging bullets in Saidaioujou?
This is a really general anwer and probably not all that helpful, but I don't think there really is any other kind here.
Everything else is just general playing skill, which just requires more practice. Not necessarily even with the same game, basic skills carry over really well. Also keep watching replays by better players and keep analyzing them too. You'll get more out of them when you're more familiar with the game.
There are no secret tricks to this. Play more, but equally important is to keep actively thinking while you play. Playing something a lot is not going to do anything if you keep repeating the same mistakes. Instead, you need to recognize these mistakes and figure out how to not do them anymore.sojtrash wrote:Any suggestions how to get better, besides just play moar? I've done that. Specific training regimens? Drawing and mapping out boss bullet patterns? How to increase precise ship-moving skills? Dodge routines when you see a particular incoming bullet pattern?
Everything else is just general playing skill, which just requires more practice. Not necessarily even with the same game, basic skills carry over really well. Also keep watching replays by better players and keep analyzing them too. You'll get more out of them when you're more familiar with the game.
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Re: RQ: How to get better at dodging bullets in Saidaioujou?
I have trouble with the same patterns. The only advice I can give is to try and look ahead. You really need to be looking up the screen and preparing for the next 'line' of bullets while you're dodging the ones closest to your ship, if you're not prepared for what's about to happen then something will catch you off guard. So yeah, always be thinking ahead and try to look at the screen as a whole. Not just what's directly threatening you at the time.
Freedom Is Not Defined By Safety
Re: RQ: How to get better at dodging bullets in Saidaioujou?
this video has some tips for bosses/midbosses and using the laser aura.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITXqDWWba0c
otherwise, pretty much what Erppo said, keep fighting. i could barely clear the novice mode when i got this game. it took over 2 months for me to clear arcade (with C-L). i also had problems with the 2nd boss' patterns. what i would do in training is stop shooting and let him cycle through the patterns until he times out to the 2nd phase, then restart and repeat.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITXqDWWba0c
otherwise, pretty much what Erppo said, keep fighting. i could barely clear the novice mode when i got this game. it took over 2 months for me to clear arcade (with C-L). i also had problems with the 2nd boss' patterns. what i would do in training is stop shooting and let him cycle through the patterns until he times out to the 2nd phase, then restart and repeat.
Re: RQ: How to get better at dodging bullets in Saidaioujou?
thnx guys, I'll try to implement your tips. Well, I was kind of already doing them 
but I'll try to really examine my mistakes.
Maybe to prod along more insight, what do you guys examine when looking at mistakes, exactly? In retrospect, maybe what I'm looking at is only on the superficial level, and need to think deeper.
Mimimoru - anything not particularly obvious in the vid amongst the japanese text tips?
but I'll try to really examine my mistakes.Maybe to prod along more insight, what do you guys examine when looking at mistakes, exactly? In retrospect, maybe what I'm looking at is only on the superficial level, and need to think deeper.
Mimimoru - anything not particularly obvious in the vid amongst the japanese text tips?
Re: RQ: How to get better at dodging bullets in Saidaioujou?
i can read about zero japanese so i'm probably wrong on some of this, but here's from what i can understand:
0:03 - on the left video, 4th midboss is attacked up close with the laser aura, killing it before it can begin the 5th pattern.
0:13 - on the right video, attacking a boss up close with the aura increases hit counter by 2.
0:22 - i think on the left, it shows where to position on the 3rd boss to do more damage with the aura.
1:00 - strategy on the 2nd boss for dodging his 2nd pattern.
1:28 - attacking the 3rd boss with laser aura. 2:00, he is on 2nd phase before the difficult pattern in the 1st phase could begin.
2:18 - shows the safespot on the 3rd boss' final attack. it's not a static safespot and it doesn't work in expert or novice expert.
2:47 - strategy for dodging the 4th midboss' 5th pattern.
3:00 - what happens when you time out 4th midboss.
3:11 - 4th boss demonstration. by attacking with the aura when possible, the 5th pattern in 1st phase can be shortened, before it gets dangerous.
5:00 - not sure, i think it's showing how to get more hits/hyper gauge on the final phase?
5:35 - i think the orange line shows a safespot on kouryu's 1st phase. red line i think shows where you can do more damage with the aura.
what do i examine when looking at mistakes.. tbh, i don't think very much about this stuff. i guess, i just pick up on things as i play along and watch replays. as advised in Full Extent of the Jam, i try to vary my training sessions. i also attempt the challenges once in a while, to see what i've learned.
0:03 - on the left video, 4th midboss is attacked up close with the laser aura, killing it before it can begin the 5th pattern.
0:13 - on the right video, attacking a boss up close with the aura increases hit counter by 2.
0:22 - i think on the left, it shows where to position on the 3rd boss to do more damage with the aura.
1:00 - strategy on the 2nd boss for dodging his 2nd pattern.
1:28 - attacking the 3rd boss with laser aura. 2:00, he is on 2nd phase before the difficult pattern in the 1st phase could begin.
2:18 - shows the safespot on the 3rd boss' final attack. it's not a static safespot and it doesn't work in expert or novice expert.
2:47 - strategy for dodging the 4th midboss' 5th pattern.
3:00 - what happens when you time out 4th midboss.
3:11 - 4th boss demonstration. by attacking with the aura when possible, the 5th pattern in 1st phase can be shortened, before it gets dangerous.
5:00 - not sure, i think it's showing how to get more hits/hyper gauge on the final phase?
5:35 - i think the orange line shows a safespot on kouryu's 1st phase. red line i think shows where you can do more damage with the aura.
what do i examine when looking at mistakes.. tbh, i don't think very much about this stuff. i guess, i just pick up on things as i play along and watch replays. as advised in Full Extent of the Jam, i try to vary my training sessions. i also attempt the challenges once in a while, to see what i've learned.
Re: RQ: How to get better at dodging bullets in Saidaioujou?
Wow, thanks!!!
Going back to try hammering away some more. If I get desperate, I'm thinking maybe I should buy a DVD recorder or something so I can rewind my replays
Going back to try hammering away some more. If I get desperate, I'm thinking maybe I should buy a DVD recorder or something so I can rewind my replays
Re: RQ: How to get better at dodging bullets in Saidaioujou?
This post might help you out a bit. It's a good idea to watch multiple replays from different people so you can see all the ways to handle a certain situation. You can then mix and match the methods that work best for you.
Other than that, just keep playing. Don't get discouraged if you keep dying, it's part of the learning process!
Other than that, just keep playing. Don't get discouraged if you keep dying, it's part of the learning process!
Re: RQ: How to get better at dodging bullets in Saidaioujou?
thnx 
Tried the tactic used in the video on the first boss's 3rd pattern, but haven't had much such success. I'm blaming it on putting off practice to play Diablo III on PS3 though
That first boss starts on its third pattern moving either on the left or right side and the screen, and I can only manage to survive without wasting a bomb when it moves to the right side. During this phase, and it may just be me, but I think the way it shoots its rotating shots is random (clockwise/counterclockwise), which makes practice against it have more to do with dodging skill than pattern memorization.
Tried the tactic used in the video on the first boss's 3rd pattern, but haven't had much such success. I'm blaming it on putting off practice to play Diablo III on PS3 though
That first boss starts on its third pattern moving either on the left or right side and the screen, and I can only manage to survive without wasting a bomb when it moves to the right side. During this phase, and it may just be me, but I think the way it shoots its rotating shots is random (clockwise/counterclockwise), which makes practice against it have more to do with dodging skill than pattern memorization.