Recommended Anime/Manga?

[EmperorIng]

So, uh, is the OVA of Battle Angel Alita any good?

[KAI]

Excellent animation, meh argument. The manga is better.

[Skykid]

Excellent animation, meh argument. The manga is better.

Oh you read it! Why didn't you say?

And yes the manga is definitely faaar superior, but the OVA does a good job of condensing two story arcs into an hour (quite a feat!) and maintains the incredible atmosphere. Bit sombre though, there's more zest to Gally in the manga, where she's a bit of a new born fighting baby girl in the anime.

I honestly dream of the motorball events from the manga being animated. I think that's the first time I've started reading in a sitting position and found myself standing upright by the end. Deserves an award for most adrenaline in comic form, ever.

Although the first volume is patchy, artistically, through the Makatsu fight and part of Yugo's story, by the time it hit the Zapan revenge arc there were points where I was considering that Kishiro might actually be able to draw anything: an artist whose only limit is his imagination. The Motorball really blew my mind in that respect, as did the whole Barjack desert train assault. Amazing, memorable stuff.

[Skykid]

Hagane, I phoned up Kishiro and asked him to explain, based on your assessment, why he was so artistically inferior in 1995 that he couldn't draw proportionate craniums or anatomy. He sent this and asked you to stfu:



I also asked him what in god's name this is meant to be, circa 2000:



He apologised and said when it comes to drawing faces, he appears to have completely lost the knack.

I told him the Gally of old would have responded with this kind of raspberry:



We nearly came to verbal blows over this, but he eventually apologised for offending the eye.

I proposed he try to give his characters back the kind of expression he used to be able to conjure on a dime:



His response was that he could only draw one expression now, and it had to look like this.

He also said he can't be bothered to draw backgrounds anymore, which is why most panels are vacant and all the detail is missing.

In the end it came down to a simple admission that he just can't do this anymore because he's lost the cool:



He apologises to all his fans and says he's getting old and doesn't have the stylistic flair of his former years. He said he'd pick up the cost of the call to make up for it.

[ZacharyB]

My sister and I were avid fans of Battle Angel Alita. It was grand fun, with a superb setting.

I'd been hearing about some problems that Kishiro was having by the time Last Order rolled around. The staff did not like the controversial subjects in his work—controversial for Japan, at least. Last Order seems edited specifically for a more shonen feel. Kishiro eventually ended his contract with Shueisha because he was infuriated at the censorship they kept trying to leverage upon him. (A prominent example being that the word "psycho" was censored in one of the later printings of Gunnm. The Japanese culture didn't like the "impurity" of mental illness and Kishiro, probably having researched all of this stuff, was going crazy at this attitude.)

I can imagine that the constant conflict with his publisher might've been digging into the care for his work.

But moreover, Kishiro was much older by the time he started on Last Order. Artists burn out. To tell you the truth, I think that the story might've bored him a little. Would've loved to see what he could do without Shueisha and a deadline on his shoulders. But, they're the ones who pay the bills.

[drauch]

This ridiculous argument is really making me want to start reading Battle Angel Alita. Maybe I'll start tomorrow.

[Skykid]

But moreover, Kishiro was much older by the time he started on Last Order. Artists burn out. To tell you the truth, I think that the story might've bored him a little. Would've loved to see what he could do without Shueisha and a deadline on his shoulders. But, they're the ones who pay the bills.

Indeed ZacharyB: While reading Last Order I thought about everything you proposed and more... but the thing is, there's only a 5 year gap between the end of Alita (sublime, godly artwork) and Last Order (very obvious drop-off).

To confirm it wasn't a steady decline over 5 years due to age or ailment, I've been reading Aqua Knight which filled the gap - but he's completely on form! It's beautifully composed page to page.

As for this:

To tell you the truth, I think that the story might've bored him a little.

Apparently Kishiro desperately wanted to return to the Alita story because he was unhappy with having to finish the original early. He has actually suspended Aqua Knight right in the middle of the run and promised fans he will finish it when Last Order ends. That really doesn't sound like a chap bored of the subject matter.

The only other possibility is that in actual fact he needed to pay some bills, Aqua Knight wasn't cutting it, and Shueisha threw him a mega offer for a new Alita he couldn't refuse, despite not wanting to actually do it (which would account for the lack of effort... partly. It doesn't account for the stylistic downgrade.)

I should note he still draws acrobatics and action scenes incredibly well - no probs there - it's just the faces, general detail and backgrounds that are hurting.

Either way, this will remain a mystery unless I can question him face to face. Or get another phone call.

This ridiculous argument is really making me want to start reading Battle Angel Alita. Maybe I'll start tomorrow.

Dooo it! It's amaze. The first volume is a little rough around the edges, as is so commonly the case with Manga, but by the end of the series you'll be creaming your drawers.

[blackoak]

Last Order was soooo disappointing. I was obsessed with the original Gunnm as a teenager though, as were most of my friends and family. I think I'll read it again soon (its been years).

[Skykid]

Last Order was soooo disappointing.

I know, what a fall from grace.

Nice to hear from people who have actually read the books, as opposed to volunteering ridiculous definitive opinions based on water vapour.

May I ask did you finish the entire thing? I'm struggling at 10 chapters to press on, it's so vapid and poorly rendered, and has none of the atmosphere or humour of the original. Would you suggest jacking it in entirely or persevering?

Aqua Knight is actually charming, beautiful looking stuff though, would recommend (Ruliya is hawt.)

[blackoak]

I never finished Last Order. I think I got about 4 volumes in, when I gave up due to the art quality you've mentioned and the oddly dull story. I don't remember any details now, just that it was suprising how boring/uncreative (humourless is apt) it was compared to the high note Gunnm went out on. I too would be curious to hear if it ever got better, but I doubt it.

Thanks for the rec, I'll have to give Aqua Knight a read.

Has anyone played the PSX Gunnm, btw? Too bad it came out in that no man's land of early 3D.

[Skykid]

I never finished Last Order. I think I got about 4 volumes in, when I gave up due to the art quality you've mentioned and the oddly dull story. I don't remember any details now, just that it was suprising how boring/uncreative (humourless is apt) it was compared to the high note Gunnm went out on. I too would be curious to hear if it ever got better, but I doubt it.

Thanks for the rec, I'll have to give Aqua Knight a read.

Has anyone played the PSX Gunnm, btw? Too bad it came out in that no man's land of early 3D.

I heard it's a bit dry, but being a Japanese speaker you'll probably get more from it. Aspects of the story are meant to be loosely included in Last Order incidentally. Not that that would make it much better. I'll see if I can get through a little more, but it looks like a lost cause sadly: a victim of some odd circumstances.

Aqua Knight you'll get through quick, there are only four volumes published. But, if he's planning to come back and finish it after Last Order, what the heck will it look like?! If he can revert back to the original style light turning on a light switch, I'd be mightily impressed - otherwise it will be a pretty underwhelming conclusion.

[cj iwakura]

The big question: will James Cameron ever descend from the throne of Avatar to make his Alita film? He always said he wanted to do one.

[Skykid]

The big question: will James Cameron ever descend from the throne of Avatar to make his Alita film? He always said he wanted to do one.

No, it's been shelved indefinitely due to Avatar 2 and 3 now. After reading through it, the only visual medium that could do it justice would be anime on a colossal budget - the largest ever, probably from Otomo's studio. Totally epic pipe dream, give me Motorball.

[Raytrace]

Battle Angel Alita- I read very first chapter of manga and the art is very nice to my eyes - I'm watching the OVAs now and then I'll shall read all manga.

[Raytrace]

ok those OVAs were brilliant - I'll start on the manga soon

[Domino]

Just finish reading Part I of Message to Adolf. Scrolling along part 2 quite nicely. I just picked up Mobile Suit Gundam: The Origin Vol 2 and The Two Faces of Tomorrow Manga from Yukinobu Hoshino

[Skykid]

Battle Angel Alita- I read very first chapter of manga and the art is very nice to my eyes - I'm watching the OVAs now and then I'll shall read all manga.

Yay, good to hear. You're a bit too much of an anime whore though Ray, you should have held off on the OAV until you finished Vol.1, since it hugely condenses a massive story arc. Now you know the outcome it won't be quite as much fun. But to be honest, the best stuff, in both narrative and art, comes after the first arc ends, so plenty to look forward to.

[Raytrace]

Yay, good to hear. You're a bit too much of an anime whore though Ray, you should have held off on the OAV until you finished Vol.1, since it hugely condenses a massive story arc. Now you know the outcome it won't be quite as much fun. But to be honest, the best stuff, in both narrative and art, comes after the first arc ends, so plenty to look forward to.

haha it is weird but yeah I do tend to veer towards anime more than manga, which is weird, because my youth was spent collecting 2000AD a lot more than watching cartoons.

But I think with anime, it's that I really like having music with stuff, in fact one of my main problems before I read manga is what music I should put, and it's appropriateness haha, maybe I should just try silence, though I'm not a big fan of that o_O :p.

Oh and don't worry I kindof actually enjoy watching/reading stuff again in a different way.

I think I shall start reading the manga tonight, though I'm considering watching some NON-ANIME tonight!!!!! - maybe The Outsiders or Barry Lyndon...

[Raytrace]

The best of DYRL summarized in an 8MB gif.

That sequence blew me away.

sorry I forgot about your GIF, I shall start gathering the frames now

[Skykid]

Yay, good to hear. You're a bit too much of an anime whore though Ray, you should have held off on the OAV until you finished Vol.1, since it hugely condenses a massive story arc. Now you know the outcome it won't be quite as much fun. But to be honest, the best stuff, in both narrative and art, comes after the first arc ends, so plenty to look forward to.

haha it is weird but yeah I do tend to veer towards anime more than manga, which is weird, because my youth was spent collecting 2000AD a lot more than watching cartoons.

But I think with anime, it's that I really like having music with stuff, in fact one of my main problems before I read manga is what music I should put, and it's appropriateness haha, maybe I should just try silence, though I'm not a big fan of that o_O :p.

Oh and don't worry I kindof actually enjoy watching/reading stuff again in a different way.

I think I shall start reading the manga tonight, though I'm considering watching some NON-ANIME tonight!!!!! - maybe The Outsiders or Barry Lyndon...

Lol, set your alarm if you go for Barry Lyndon.

I'm far more of a manga reader than an Anime watcher these days, probably because I had a preconceived idea that I watched all the good stuff during its era of prevalence. I also rewatched the Alita anime just a few days ago as it had been ages. Was great to see it again, and that part where she's dodging Makatsu's blades as the camera tracks backward: breathtaking.

I tend to find more depth in the manga. A gazillion panels of so much to see, whereas Anime only comes good on the money shots, which one generally has to wait a while for.

[Raytrace]

Lol, set your alarm if you go for Barry Lyndon.

I'm far more of a manga reader than an Anime watcher these days, probably because I had a preconceived idea that I watched all the good stuff during its era of prevalence. I also rewatched the Alita anime just a few days ago as it had been ages. Was great to see it again, and that part where she's dodging Makatsu's blades as the camera tracks backward: breathtaking.

I tend to find more depth in the manga. A gazillion panels of so much to see, whereas Anime only comes good on the money shots, which one generally has to wait a while for.

haha yeah Barry Lyndon is fairly long alright. Yeah the cinematography in Alita OVA was amazing, as were the ubiquitous workstation cyberpunk/sci-fi pads in the soundtrack.

Yeah the thing with me though is I'm a bit thick and filling in the animation parts in manga can be difficult for me (esp. when I first started reading from right to left).

[Raytrace]

I had to divide into 3 - (well 3 and 1 tall) - here is the tall one:



emm strobe warning and stuff.....

and the rest are here:

http://r4ytrace.tumblr.com/post/54270466240

[GaijinPunch]

I watched Gundam 0080. Fun to go back to, but not super action packed, and the story a bit light. We can probably think of this as the prototype where Gundam got a bit kiddier. It's well drawn, and doesn't have the same level of gloss that todays' stuff does. Really awful 80's pop tunes? You bet! Doubt I'll watch again... will do 0083 next.

[Raytrace]

0080 is probably my fave - but I'm a very sentimental type hahaha

0083 is good too, but nowhere near 08th MS and 0080 in my book.

This:



is legend though :p

[Raytrace]

just watched first episode of Fang Of The Sun Dougram - I didn't realise it was so war story ish - VOTOMSy I mean.

I liked it.

'Not justice, I want to get truth!'

[Raytrace]

last episode of Gargantia was great - I enjoyed every episode thoroughly, I only wish there was more, apparently there's one or two OVAs coming out though so I suppose that's something.

[KAI]

Must watch Gargantia, I was watching ZZ at the same time and I dropped it after the 1st episode.
If you enjoyed Urobuchi's work, you should give Psycho-Pass a chance, I've heard it's good.

[Raytrace]

Must watch Gargantia, I was watching ZZ at the same time and I dropped it after the 1st episode.
If you enjoyed Urobuchi's work, you should give Psycho-Pass a chance, I've heard it's good.

cool I shall check that - seems like Equilibrium or Minority Report a bit...

Reading first volume of Battle Angel Alita - beautiful drawing IMO - and it appears Yukito Kushiro is a bit of a Sláine fan too, which along with the Nemesis/ABC Warriors/Ro-Busters stories, is probably my favourite comic/story.

this is of what I speak:




there's a bit of Bisley's Lobo thrown in there too .

ok they are a bit big sorry

[Raytrace]

finished first volume of Alita - OK it is way more detailed and dark - all the extra stuff about the King of Maggots and all- horrible, but brilliant. I actually think the art in general is quite influenced by Bisley, I don't know much about manga styles and periods etc., but definitely there seems to be the same feel as the incredible ABC Warriors books by Bisley.

anyway I think so far this is my favourite manga I've read. Better even than Moeyo Pen maybe ! Admittedly though I really have not read that much manga yet...

[Skykid]

It's one of the best seinen I've read, and I've read a lot of manga! Definitely see the 2000AD influence: the publishing dates are perfectly timed too. As for Slaine, I think you nailed it.

The artwork improves tenfold, however, the best is yet to come.