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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 5:47 pm 


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~Kid Icarus~ wrote:
Anyone know what the kids waving the flag next to your score indicates? :?

I think that's max bombs.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2005 1:45 am 



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GaijinPunch wrote:
So what's the deal w/ killing the bosses. Seems that even if I'm in gunner mode, I always just sucke in rings, not stones. I can only get stones if I kill a "part" of the boss.


Yes, that's right. When a boss changes to its next form, or dies, all bullets onscreen are transformed into rings whether you are in Fighter or Gunner mode. You can almost always get enough rings to raise the jewel level to max, which is a nice bonus to carry into the next stage.

GaijinPunch wrote:
I'm also finding Bolt to be the better choice if you can "control" him and not kill everything too fast.


I don't know if you've noticed, but your choice of fighter and gunflyer are not independent of each other. Each fighter's abilities (speed and shot properties) change significantly depending on which gunflyer it is paired with, and two of the three gunflyers have differing abilities depending on which fighter they are paired with. It may be best to think of each of the six fighter/gunner combinations as a distinct "ship".

Several people have asked about the graphic of the kids waving a flag that appears near your bomb stock. As some have guessed, it serves to indicate that you have the maximum bomb bonus. Naturally, you lose both the bonus and the graphic when you use a bomb or die.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2005 1:57 am 


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Thanks AWJ for tons of helpful hints / tips on scoring and few other stuff that could benefit us well.

One thing I'm curious about, when I try to pick my gunner by pressing A + B at the same time, it doesn't seem to work because they're not in split formation when the game starts like it was supposed to as mentioned on The Sheep's website. What am I doing wrong?


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2005 2:27 am 



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ArrogantBastard wrote:
One thing I'm curious about, when I try to pick my gunner by pressing A + B at the same time, it doesn't seem to work because they're not in split formation when the game starts like it was supposed to as mentioned on The Sheep's website. What am I doing wrong?


Here is the correct procedure to get the alternate gunflyer formation: Move the selection to the pilot you want, then press and hold either Shot or Bomb to select your pilot. Then, while still holding that button down, use the joystick and the other button (Bomb if you're already holding Shot and vice versa) to select your gunner.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2005 3:30 am 


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Ah, thanks, sir. :)

Edit: I tried out your techniques as you stated here, AWJ, and what do you know? I was turning out an extremely good run than I ever had since I started playing Progear, and the next thing I know I'm getting sent to the desktop instead of my MAME program because my fucking cat RESTED HIS GODDAMN HEAD ON MY ESCAPE KEY! Damn. I was about to face off with the stage 3 boss while approaching 4.5 million points.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2005 3:56 am 


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Dude -- write a big ass strat guide! I didn't know the combination changed the pilots (and gunners) stats. Am I wrong in thinking that Bolt is ALWAYS faster and stronger than Nail though?

I've been using Bolt/Rivet for the last day or so now, and doing pretty good... I just kill shit too fast sometimes, so my score suffers. @_@
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2005 11:15 pm 


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Can someone elaborate on what the objectives must be completed to enable the good ending and loop (if it isn't automatic)?
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2005 12:28 pm 


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I'm curious if the US version has 2nd loop in it that I could access to, since I cleared the 1st loop. (Or did I do an 'ALL CLEAR' if there's no 2nd loop?)

Edit: I'm curious about this, because I want to improve my scores and to see how far I can go in that game. :)


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2005 6:27 pm 



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I'm sure the US version has a loop, the only difference is the missing voices and that the default difficulty is lowered compared to the JP version.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2005 6:29 pm 


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Hmm, I'll have to check that out after I take a long-ass break from it after reaching my goal of breaking 13 million points. Perhaps Google.com will yield results for me.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2005 12:48 am 


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Can anyone answer something for me?

I tracked down the an elusive video of an unknown player completing two loops in Progear, and there's one thing that's been puzzling me all along...

How the FUCK does this player, after shooting down and collecting enough rings for big diamonds, keep streaming diamonds after the enemy has died? I just...don't understand how he can just keep streaming diamonds...


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2005 2:02 pm 



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Every gem has a radius that will cause other bullets to turn into gems. Thus when a long streak of bullets is shot, it causes a chain reaction. If the enemy keeps firing a constant stream (end of 1st level, first boss, turrets in the 5th stage) then it will continue to convert gems (this is hard to do). I am sure when you play there are many moments when an entire screen of bullets converts to gems...this is the same property.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2005 5:25 pm 



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Valgar wrote:
Every gem has a radius that will cause other bullets to turn into gems. Thus when a long streak of bullets is shot, it causes a chain reaction. If the enemy keeps firing a constant stream (end of 1st level, first boss, turrets in the 5th stage) then it will continue to convert gems (this is hard to do). I am sure when you play there are many moments when an entire screen of bullets converts to gems...this is the same property.


And remember that chain reactions only work with gems, not rings. And the effectiveness of the chain reaction is proportional to the gem value in some way--I think every gem smaller than diamond has an upper limit to how long a chain can extend.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2005 9:56 am 


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2nd loop

how do i acces it?
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2005 1:30 pm 



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Not 100% sure this is correct, but it should be close:

Bombs used <= 2
OR
Bombs used + Lives lost <= 7


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 2:17 pm 



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AWJ wrote:

I don't know if you've noticed, but your choice of fighter and gunflyer are not independent of each other. Each fighter's abilities (speed and shot properties) change significantly depending on which gunflyer it is paired with, and two of the three gunflyers have differing abilities depending on which fighter they are paired with. It may be best to think of each of the six fighter/gunner combinations as a distinct "ship".


AWJ, do you know what changes with each pair, in detail?
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 9:53 pm 



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I found a page in Arcadia that seems to explain all the pilot matchups. Need someone to translate.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 11:48 pm 



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Translated by GaijinPunch - Many Thanks!

The scan, scanned by me. http://cowboy.ikaruga.co.uk/Progearscan.jpg

-----------

About Fighter Speed:
During fighter mode, movement speed depends on which fighter you pick, and is furthered altered depending on the gunner. During gunner mode, speed has nothing to do with fighter type, and is only decided by the gunner.

(Assuming y = psi, and not upsilon)
<Fighter Mode>
<Alpha: Speed lowered Beta: Speed raised Psi: No change
<Gunner Mode>
Fast-- Beta > Psi > Alpha --Slow

Bolt + Chain:
Main Shot: At popularity level <= 3 has same changes as Rivet, and same as Nail at starting at Level 4 (level's 2 and 3 respectively on the 2nd loop)
Gunner Shot: No change

Couple Rank 2: Chain has no feelings toward bolt, so there's no gunner stat changes. As Bolt's feelings are rather "cool", there's not much change to the main shot either.

Bolt + Nail:
Main Shot: -More vertical spacing between bullets (attack range gets wider)
-Shot speed is slower
-Full auto in gunner mode is faster
Gunner Shot: -Shot spreads out
-Shot power raises

Couple Rank 1: Nail is very serious towards Bolt, so is very powered up as a gunner. However, even though this is the "best couple", Bolt's coolness means power is not raised for main shot.

Bolt + Rivet:
Main Shot: No Change
Gunner Shot: No Change

The only pair with no effect on main shot or gunner shot. Their lack of feelings for each other is reflected as such. Kind of a sad combination.

Ring + Chain
Main Shot: -Shot Speed increases
-Full auto speed in gunner mode is decreases
Gunner Shot: -Shot Power increases
-Bullets are slower, and shot in a scattered fashion
-A blast flows (?)

Couple Rank 1: Chain's feelings for Ring show a great power increase on the gunner shot, but it seems that Ring's feelings aren't quite that strong for her. If you want just power, this is a great couple.

Ring + Nail:
Main Shot: -Becomes seperate bullet flows (really?)
-Shot Power rises
-Fullt Auto speed in gunner mode increases

Gunner Shot: -No change

Having similar charateristics, a couple that doesn't care much for the other. Their competitiveness is reflected in their changes on the other's abilities. As they're a fighting couple, only the weaknesses stick out.

Ring & Rivet:
Main Shot: -Below popularity level 3, same stats as Chain, and same stats as Nail above level 4 (levels 2 and 3 respectively on the 2nd loop)
Gunner Shot: No Change

Couple Ranking Ura 1: A combination in which power depends on the popularity level. After achieving level 4, they've crossed a line that no other couple touch.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 12:57 pm 



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Valgar wrote:
Translated by GaijinPunch - Many Thanks!

Bolt + Nail:
Main Shot: -More vertical spacing between bullets (attack range gets wider)
-Shot speed is slower

(snip)

Ring + Chain
Main Shot: -Shot Speed increases
-Full auto speed in gunner mode is decreases
Gunner Shot: -Shot Power increases
-Bullets are slower, and shot in a scattered fashion


Both of these should be "faster", not "slower".

Otherwise this information is accurate, but I prefer to explain things in a more systematic fashion.

First, with regard to speed, it's already been noted that during Fighter mode speed is affected by both plane and gunflyer. I've found that Bolt + Chain (fastest plane and slowest gunflyer) have exactly the same speed as Ring + Nail (slowest plane and fastest gunflyer) As expected Bolt + Nail is the fastest combination while Ring + Chain is the slowest.

The gunners can basically be arranged in order from Nail -> Rivet -> Chain. Going from left to right, each gunflyer is "heavier" than the previous one. The "weight" of a gunflyer affects three things:

- Speed: a "heavier" gunflyer slows the plane down both in Fighter mode (where it modifies the plane's base speed) and Gunner mode (where the gunflyer's "weight" is the only determinant of speed)
- Tracking speed: in Gunner mode, the gunflyer rotates around the plane to aim at enemies. The "heavier" a gunflyer, the more slowly it rotates.
- Main shot in Gunner mode: In Gunner mode, the plane's main shot is reduced to a single stream. The power of this stream (= density of bullets) is determined by the gunflyer's "weight", with a "heavier" gunflyer resulting in a weaker/sparser main shot.

Now, as for the interaction between pilot and gunner, there are two aspects to it. The simpler one is the change in the gunflyer's shot. Two of the three gunners (Chain and Nail) have a "favorite" pilot with whom their shots are enhanced. Rivet does not have a favorite pilot.

Chain: When paired with Ring, her missiles travel faster and "scatter" like Nail's (though to a smaller degree) Furthermore, the explosions of her missiles continue to travel forward after impact. The difference in shot speed and the scattering effect are really obvious--anyone who has played or seen both Ring/Chain and Bolt/Chain should have noticed.

Nail: When paired with Bolt, her shots spread more widely and more "chaotically". The difference is hard to describe and certainly more subtle than it is with Chain; you have to have both Bolt/Nail and Ring/Nail onscreen together and both fully powered up to really see it. Apparently Nail's shot power (damage per shot) is enhanced as well, but this is hard to verify.

The more complicated aspect to explain is the change in a fighter's main shot. Basically, each plane has a "weak" mode and a "strong" mode. In "weak" mode, all the shots fired at a single moment are "linked" together. When firing continuously at maximum rate of fire, the plane can't fire a new round of shots until all the shots in the previous round have left the screen. On the other hand, in "strong" mode each shot is independent. As soon as any one shot leaves the screen, you can fire another shot in the same direction.

This is a lot harder to explain than it is to observe visually. My advice is to play with Ring/Chain (weak main shot), get powered up, get into a clear spot with no enemies onscreen (like right before the stage 1 boss) and fire at full-auto while moving around the screen. Then repeat with Ring/Nail (strong main shot) You should be able to see the difference in how the plane fires in each mode.

Obviously, this difference between "weak" and "strong" shots is a lot more significant for Ring than for Bolt. Bolt only fires two streams of shots, and since they're parallel both usually leave the screen at the same time anyway. So Bolt gets some other advantages as well: His shots are significantly faster in "strong" mode and the two streams are a bit farther apart.

Now, here's how each fighter's shot strength is affected by choice of gunner:
Code:
      Chain   Nail    Rivet
-----------------------------
Ring |Weak   |Strong |Changes
Bolt |Changes|Strong |Weak


"Changes" means that the shot type is determined by affection level: From level 1-3 the plane fires in "weak" mode and from level 4-6 it fires in "strong" mode.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 9:40 am 


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EDIT:

I'm an idiot. Yes, you're right. They're both "faster".
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 4:05 pm 


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Shmups Review wrote:
[There is also a difficult technique which involves a "constant vacuum." It is very abstract and difficult to perform with consistency. If your Ring level is maxed out and you switch to Gunner mode to inflict damage on enemies without actually killing them, they will continue shooting bullets that are immediately transformed into Stones that vacuum directly to your ship. If you hit fire while the Stones vacuum to your ship, the process will end and they will continue firing bullets.] Confusing, yes.

There is a technique mensioned in the review. I had happend to trigger this "constant vacuum" explotion one or twice. When this happen, there would be fire ball like the one you release when you press bomb. Any enemy bullets fire into the fire ball are immidately turned into stone and stuck to your ship. :D

Dose anyone konw exactly what you need to do to trigger this "constant vacuum" explotion? :o

I think the requirement for this to happen is:
(1) Max Ring Level
(2) Use Gunner mode to trigger an explosion.

I recall that last time I successfully create the "constant vacuum" by destroying an small turret. So think the "inflict damage on enemies without actually killing them" is not a requirement. :o

Does the number of bullets you truns into Diamond in the explosion got any relation to this phonomon?
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 7:46 pm 


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Hi, we at AST just released English translation of Futobishi Progear guide.
Even if we cannot reach his level, it's a "must read"! :wink:
http://www.arcade-extreme.com/ast :)
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 5:00 pm 


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AWJ wrote:
ArrogantBastard wrote:
One thing I'm curious about, when I try to pick my gunner by pressing A + B at the same time, it doesn't seem to work because they're not in split formation when the game starts like it was supposed to as mentioned on The Sheep's website. What am I doing wrong?


Here is the correct procedure to get the alternate gunflyer formation: Move the selection to the pilot you want, then press and hold either Shot or Bomb to select your pilot. Then, while still holding that button down, use the joystick and the other button (Bomb if you're already holding Shot and vice versa) to select your gunner.


So this is what's happening when I change the clothes of the pilot and gunner I'm selecting? At the local arcade if you hold start just before and while pressing shot to select pilot or gunner, the characters' clothes change.

And what exactly is the 'alternate gunflyer formation', and how is it beneficial?
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 4:12 pm 


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Spadgy, there are two different 'codes' you can use when selecting your pilot and gunner:

1. Alternate Clothes

Hold start button when selecting both the pilot and gunner. This displays the characters in their alternate (2p version) clothes. No other effect/bonus is given.

2. Alternate Gunflyer Formation

Use and hold down the shot button when selecting your pilot. Without letting go, use the bomb button to select your gunner. The gunflyers will be permanently locked in position in fornt of your craft.

It's debatable but I can't remember if this is paticularly beneficial or not. :?
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 5:47 pm 


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Kaede wrote:
Spadgy, there are two different 'codes' you can use when selecting your pilot and gunner:

1. Alternate Clothes

Hold start button when selecting both the pilot and gunner. This displays the characters in their alternate (2p version) clothes. No other effect/bonus is given.

2. Alternate Gunflyer Formation

Use and hold down the shot button when selecting your pilot. Without letting go, use the bomb button to select your gunner. The gunflyers will be permanently locked in position in fornt of your craft.

It's debatable but I can't remember if this is paticularly beneficial or not. :?


Cheers Kaede. I thought those clothes weren't making a difference. Such an odd option for a shmup...
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 11:44 pm 


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AWJ wrote:
Quote:
Off Topic: I watched Howl's Moving Castle today and it reminded me of Progear for some reason.


Spoke to Icarus at the last London meet and he told me the designers were inspired primarily by Miyazaki for the look of the game - which would explain this for you!

He also said it was deemed a 'failed experiment' and Cave were extremely disappointed by it.

The Japanese are crazy.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 4:53 am 


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wow thank you everyone for the info and strategy....i actually understand the ring/jewel system and how to use it properly now......

playing and scoring well are very fun in this game...i love letting the screen fill with bullets and canceling them to diamonds....very satisfying......i think im gonna track this one down next

im going to be putting some serious time into this one now for sure


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 5:10 am 


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‾Kid Icarus‾ wrote:
Anyone know what the kids waving the flag next to your score indicates? :?


The kids next to your score is a reminder that you got a BONUS afoot. When they appear, look at the bottom left of the screen. You'll see that you now have a multipler.
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 Post subject: Re: GD: Progear scoring
PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 12:57 pm 


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Something I was wondering about: does anyone know for sure if your Lovely level also works as a rank system, in addition to making your shots stronger? I've just played a full game on level 6 by spending more time in gunner mode (and also dying less), and the game felt a lot harder compared to previous 1ccs...

As far as I can tell from videos, it looks like there's a rank system but I'm not 100% positive, and I'm not sure it's worthwhile trying to get out of your way to tame it when you're a "I can't loop" level player. Any thoughts on that?

And my belated thanks for the detailed discussion of shot types above! :)


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 Post subject: Re: GD: Progear scoring
PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 4:30 am 


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Thanks to everyone who posted in this thread it helped me get a lot more out of this game than I was playing casually. One thing I don't understand is how to pull off long chains like in the Futobishi video:

Image

How do you keep getting stones to appear like that? He stops shooting at some point but they just keep coming so I'm assuming he's holding down fire for gun B for a bit and then releases,taps fire to trigger gun A, and then they just keep coming as more enemy bullets appear? I haven't been able to pull this off.


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