Generic game recommendations: you ask, we suggest

[Nana]

Legasista

Ah, thank you, but I forgot to mention that I would prefer something 3D. As in behind the character. This looks cool, though.

[BIL]

what SNES shmups do you recommend? i know there's not i huge library, i already have Darius twin and super r-type, any games worth getting besides gradius 3 and r-type 3?

Most of the SFC shooters I own besides R-Type III are in the "like, not love" range (Axelay, Pop n' Twinbee) and not stuff I'd recommend unreservedly, but Super Aleste (JP) aka Space Megaforce (US) (edit: also released in Europe with the original JP title) is one I rank among the best console originals. Like a lot of Compile shooters it's rather on the long side, and easy on defaults, but on the two higher difficulties (slow and fast suicide bullets, respectively) it becomes a lot more intense from the get-go. Really forces you to exploit the signature Compile invincibility-hopping, while thinking very carefully about what you're shooting. It runs nice and smooth despite the amount of onscreen chaos (feels more MD than SFC) and has a lovely space-lounging OST too.

The JP version nicks part of New Order's "Blue Monday" and the chorus of "The Perfect Kiss" for its stage 3 BGM, making it better than the edited US one by default. The US version also chopped out some cute superdeformed character art for the game over and continue screens. Other than that, they should be more or less the same.

[SA-DaleCooper]

what SNES shmups do you recommend? i know there's not i huge library, i already have Darius twin and super r-type, any games worth getting besides gradius 3 and r-type 3?

Most of the SFC shooters I own besides R-Type III are in the "like, not love" range (Axelay, Pop n' Twinbee) and not stuff I'd recommend unreservedly, but Super Aleste (JP) aka Space Megaforce (US/EU) is one I rank among the best console originals. Like a lot of Compile shooters it's rather on the long side, and easy on defaults, but on the two higher difficulties (slow and fast suicide bullets, respectively) it becomes a lot more intense from the get-go. Really forces you to exploit the signature Compile invincibility-hopping, while thinking very carefully about what you're shooting. It runs nice and smooth despite the amount of onscreen chaos (feels more MD than SFC) and has a lovely space-lounging OST too.

The JP version nicks part of New Order's "Blue Monday" and the chorus of "The Perfect Kiss" for its stage 3 BGM, making it better than the edited US one by default. The US version also chopped out some cute superdeformed character art for the game over and continue screens. Other than that, they should be more or less the same.

well thank you i've asked one of my local hookups and he has this game, i'll be swinging by this week to pick it up

[BIL]

Glad to help, I was only recently turned onto it myself.

[Nana]

Is there such a thing as a non-RPG with hour-long boss fights?

[trap15]

Does Okami count? I swear that last boss is at least 30 minutes.

[Acid_Rain]

Any shooters similar to FEAR 1-3, Doom 3, etc.?

[BIL]

Is there such a thing as a non-RPG with hour-long boss fights?

The End from MGS3 can be a pretty lengthy boss fight on a first playthrough, if playing blind (there are lots of techniques to whittle the fight duration down dramatically, or even bypass it entirely).

[Nana]

Thanks for the recs, both Okami and MGS3 are great games. Another oddball, but what about games that prominently feature leather jackets? I don't mean 'leather armor,' I mean

ROCK



N



ROLL!!!

[trap15]

What are some good beat'em ups on SNES/SFC? Been playing a lot of (yes, seriously) Combatribes, and I'm hoping there are some others that are a bit more fair

[Skykid]

What are some good beat'em ups on SNES/SFC? Been playing a lot of (yes, seriously) Combatribes, and I'm hoping there are some others that are a bit more fair

The best is probably Ghost Chaser Raisei, part of the Denjin Makai series. Learn its huge moveset and have fun mixing it up. Bit drab graphically, but smooth despite a ton of sprites and superb fun.

Follow ups:

Rushing Beat - the first one, the sequels are pap. The first one is rough, but better balanced and more fun that it may at first seem.

Super Double Dragon - s'okay. Some nice ideas in there, but it's unfinished (clearly!) and that's a bit annoying.

Final Fight Tough - best of the original FF games.

Battle Zeque Den - unusual and strict as hell, but some nice stuff in there if you can make it the distance.

Gourmet Sentai Bara Yarou - Just for the goddamn weirdness. Pretty far from a masterpiece though.

Undercover Cops - a sincerely gobsmacking arcade conversion. I'm still reeling from how much they squeezed into the SFC cart. Well done that little development team.



Steer well clear of:

Sailor Moon - it's absolutely shit. The most boring scrolling beater ever devised.

Iron Commando - Looks great... then you try clearing stage one and realise it's one of the most stupidly designed games ever.

[BIL]

I don't know the system's beltscrollers very well, but have you tried Natsume's The Ninja Warriors Again? It's effectively a beltscroller locked to a single plane, and it is magnificent.

Also, not SFC, but definitely give Double Dragon Advance a go - it's pretty much the ultimate Technos brawler, made by ex-members and taking ideas from not just the DD series but Kunio and even Combatribes. Controls are super-smooth, it's a blast just taking apart enemies in the most brutal face-smashing way possible. (say, shoulder toss -> stomp on gut -> mounted fists to the face for the KO)

[trap15]

Iron Commando - Looks great... then you try clearing stage one and realise it's one of the most stupidly designed games ever.

That sounds like Combatribes, but for some reason I'm really enjoying it (maybe it's because it's so absurdly hard that I get a masochistic joy from getting my ass whooped by stage 3).


EDIT: (hurr forgot the rest of my reply)
I prefer belt scrollers. Two-plane is acceptable too, but I'm not a fan of single-plane or more-than-two-plane stuff. With one plane it feels too linear, with >2 planes it feels far too complicated.

I'll certainly have to check out Raisei, I really love Denjin Makai 2. I'll definitely check out the rest in an emulator before trying to find them, some of them certainly sound good.

[Skykid]

I'll certainly have to check out Raisei, I really love Denjin Makai 2. I'll definitely check out the rest in an emulator before trying to find them, some of them certainly sound good.

Rasei is awesome. Just give it enough time to learn the full moveset. Lovely gritty sci-fi fighting.

Also, facepalm: BIL mentioned one of the machine's best, Ninjawarriors Again. It's a taut, technical and very cool single plane beat em up. Too easy on default, challenging as heck on hard.

If you don't like single place, Battle Zeque Den might not appeal. It's interesting though.

Iron Commando - Looks great... then you try clearing stage one and realise it's one of the most stupidly designed games ever.

That sounds like Combatribes, but for some reason I'm really enjoying it (maybe it's because it's so absurdly hard that I get a masochistic joy from getting my ass whooped by stage 3).

No. Combatribes will be better than Iron Commando, it's a foregone conclusion. Basically IC is a game where two Italians robbed everything they could from Capcom (quite impressively) and designed their own version of Cadillacs & Dinosaurs for the SFC. You'll start playing and be real impressed, until bit by bit you start to realise after they spent an age on graphics, they found they didn't know how to code, balance, or build an effective game. It's really (really) painful.

[BIL]

Also, facepalm: BIL mentioned one of the machine's best, Ninjawarriors Again. It's a taut, technical and very cool single plane beat em up. Too easy on default, challenging as heck on hard.

I was trying to think of a concise description of why TNWA is so good - that's exactly what I should've written. Hard difficulty gives an already stylish (and brutal) beater arcade-standard challenge and depth.

[CIT]

Ninja Warriors Again - No belt, as mentioned, but it's really among the crème de la crème of console action games across all systems!

Final Fight Tough - It has a bad rep, but I love it. Really fast actions and big moveset. Excellent presentation too. Has the anime-esque mid-90s Capcom style like SF Alpha. Final Fight 2 isn't bad either, but it's essentially just the Final Fight 1 engine with different stages.

Shin Nekketsu Kouha: Kunio-tachi no Banka - THE best Kunio game, imo. Great presentation and really varied stages.

TMNT: Turtles in Time - Probably don't need to tell you about this one. It's great, the only thing keeping me from really loving it are the stupid Ninja Tutles characters though, blergh!

Batman Returns - Another Konami licensed game. Solid gameplay, outstanding graphics.

Sonic Blast Man I & II - Surprisingly fun games with super colorful graphics. The game really makes you feel like you're beating the living crap out of guys.

Mighty Morphin Power Rangers & Mighty Morphin Power Rangers the Movie - Really excellent Natsume developed games (like Ninja Warriors Again). Super fast and smooth gameplay. Again, shame they're based around such a silly license


Stuff to consider:

Shounen Ninja Sasuke - Like Goemon as a side-scrolling beat em up.

Rushing Beat Shura - Don't listen to Skykid, the first one in the series is junk. This is not excellence either, but it's good enough and it's 4 players!

Bishin Densetsu Zoku - Weird but nicely done Mad Max style game, where you drive a car through a postapocalyptic landscape and if you crash you need to fight against tribes of marauding amazons.

Gourmet Sentai Bara Yarou - Cho-aniki style weirdness where you beat opponents into food ingedients and cook meals out of them, really solid game though with tons of moves.

Ghost Chaser Densei, Undercover Cops King of Dragons, Knights of the Round, and Captain Commando are all more or less solid arcade ports, but I think it's way more enjoyable to just play the originals.

[Jonathan Ingram]

Is there such a thing as a non-RPG with hour-long boss fights?

That would be Monster Hunter. The game is essentially built around boss battles which, while not hour-long in length, can still last anywhere between ten and fifty minutes, depending on your skill, equipment and the monster you`re hunting. If the timer reaches 50 minutes or you`ve died three times, the mission`s failed and you`re sent back to the hub.

Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker borrows heavily from Monster Hunter, but the overall experience is not as satisfying, largely due to the relative lack of content(fighting the same three tanks/attack choppers in the same three locations twenty times in a row may get real tiring real quick).

[BrianC]

What do you guys think of X-Men Mutant Apocalypse for SNES? I liked what I played of it, but I remember the first stage being overly long.

[broken harbour]

Is there such a thing as a non-RPG with hour-long boss fights?

Wouldn't Shadow of the Colossus be in that category?

I couldn't get into it myself but all my friends say it's amazing...

[Teufel_in_Blau]

Shadow of Colossus was boring and clunky to play. I think I fought two of those giants and than just took out the game and played Mister Mosquito instead. A much more satisfying game in terms of fighting against giants.

[Mortificator]

What do you guys think of X-Men Mutant Apocalypse for SNES?

I like Mutant Apocalypse a lot. Each character has a different opening stage and ending stage, with the ones in the middle common to everyone. They're generally well-designed, though some characters (Psylocke, Cyclops) are more fun to play as than others (Beast, Gambit).

What are some good beat'em ups on SNES/SFC?

Would you consider some arcade games? The essence of brawling is one vs. many, but SNES belt-scrollers usually can't put more than three enemies on the screen at once. This limits the combat situations that can be created and means that, while I like Final Fight Tough and Turtles in Time, keeps them from matching the first ones.

Shin Nekketsu Kouha: Kunio-tachi no Banka

The visuals are great, but I think the game design's bottom of the barrel. The console's three-baddie limit will become a bittersweet memory when you realize that after the first prison fight, you will never face more than two opponents at once. There aren't even any mooks with weapons or unique fighting styles. Compare it to the arcade Kunio, which was short and looked like horseshit, but threw you against six people at once, half of them armed.

I don't want to sound too crazy about enemy count, though... the NES Double Dragon II also had a two-enemy limit, but was probably the best Double Dragon until Advance (which Bil rightly calls the ultimate Technos brawler).

[Nana]

MonHun

Fun game, though I think by having only played the PSP iterations, I've severely limited my enjoyment of the series. It seems like a second analog stick (and coop...) would greatly enhance my enjoyment of the series. Is the PS2 one still worth playing even though the servers are all dead and stuff?

@Jonathan Ingram & Teufel_In_Blau:
Yeah, I personally really like Shadow of the Colossus, though I don't think it's near as good as Ico. In terms of the actual gameplay I don't think it's too hot either, I'm generally looking for something a bit more fast-paced with piece-by-piece boss dissection. (Fast-paced but hour-long? Oh jeez maybe I'm a bit ahead of myself here). So I'm going to amend that request to:

3D boss rush action games. I want some Alien Soldier violence up in here!

I know of:
Stretch Panic(!)
Shadow of the Colossus
Mister Mosquito(sort of..!)
Malicious
Monster Hunter (as mentioned)
God's Eater (and every other Monster Hunter clone out there)

And I think I played some porn game once that was nothing but a single boss fight. Good shit.

Honorable mentions for great and plentiful boss fights:
Bayonetta
God Hand

[BIL]

3D boss rush action games. I want some Alien Soldier violence up in here!

Sin & Punishment. Masterpiece of arcade-style rail shooting. No alternate paths or other distractions, just 30-40 minutes of nonstop shooting/slashing with masterful stage designs and one of the most varied, lastingly tricky boss rosters this side of Alien Soldier. There's a ton of game to perfect here, concentrated into a very concise runtime. Ditto the cinematic violence... each of its three stages packs an individual game's worth of mayhem. I'd mention some highlights but if you've not played it'd be a crime to ruin any. I will mention at one point you get to chase a boss into the back of a diner and cook it to death on the stove.

[Skykid]

SFC discussion time!

Shin Nekketsu Kouha: Kunio-tachi no Banka - THE best Kunio game, imo. Great presentation and really varied stages.

Nooo, it's...

The visuals are great, but I think the game design's bottom of the barrel.

...exactly as Mortificator said. Slow, cumbersome, tiring, repetitive. It should have been something more than the unimaginative slog it sadly is. Perhaps understanding Japanese would improve things marginally, but honestly not much.

Shounen Ninja Sasuke - Like Goemon as a side-scrolling beat em up.

Sasuke is charming but so untapped. Makes me cry to think about the potential in games like this. I like to imagine said potential when playing, and then sadly put the cart back in its box.

Rushing Beat Shura - Don't listen to Skykid, the first one in the series is junk. This is not excellence either, but it's good enough and it's 4 players!

Listen to Skykid. Skykid has played these games thoroughly.
Rushing Beat initially appears rough as old boots. Collision looks laggy and the damage system is just barmy... but try to clear the game and you'll find a challenge that's actually a lot better organised than you may have thought, and surprisingly well-balanced. Additionally the graphics and stage design are excellent, with really nice backgrounds and some funky tunes. None of the series is particularly amazing, but Ran is plain boring and Syura is even more boring - a plodding game with very little effort in structure and design, featuring bland repetitive alien enemies and no real style.

Gourmet Sentai Bara Yarou - Cho-aniki style weirdness where you beat opponents into food ingedients and cook meals out of them, really solid game though with tons of moves.

I'd appreciate if you could list the moveset for me. I can't find one and I don't remember there being *too* many things you could do in the game. Let me know, I've been meaning to go back to it.

Ghost Chaser Densei, Undercover Cops King of Dragons, Knights of the Round, and Captain Commando are all more or less solid arcade ports, but I think it's way more enjoyable to just play the originals.

Ghost Chaser is an original game, not an arcade port. There is no original.

Also, I've had an UC PCB for years and the SFC version is so unbelievably accurate to the arcade version (difficulty included) it really is an equal experience - in some ways, it might be even better, since it has a touch more speed!

[Hagane]

Ninja Warriors Again is a great game, but doesn't really play like a belt scroller. Crowd control is much simpler because getting flanked is almost impossible. Much less enemies on screen too. Definitely worth playing though since it's great at what it does.

For belt scrolling beat'em ups, arcade is hands down the way to go. 16 bit consoles were too weak to put many enemies on screen, and being threatened by many enemies who can easily surround and gang on you at the slightest positional / timing mistake is the main trait of the genre. You could never get an experience like Alien vs. Predator with its 10+ on-screen enemies at a time on something like the Super Famicom.

My favorites are

The Punisher: Middle ground between old school Capcom beat'em (not too complex combo system) and their modern games (extensive move lists). Nice weapon system, lots of mobility options that make for very fast paced play, accessible difficulty due to very effective crowd control with weapons / throws, some advanced combo stuff with OTG throws. Nice game to get in the genre and learn the basics.

Armored Warriors / Powered Gear: Plays a bit differently from other Capcom games in the genre. There's more emphasis on pattern dodging. Attacks are much easier to see and avoid, but damage is very high to make up for that. Mech customization gives tons of move and strategical variety (some leg/arm/weapon parts are extremely effective at some parts and a handicap at others, having the correct parts at the correct time is very important), excellent mobility (particularly for Fordy), nice combo system with high damage output based on OTGs (pretty much no juggling at all, but nearly everything OTGs), and godly visual / sound quality (to me it's Capcom's highest point in that regard). A masterpiece, but very tough and punishing so maybe not recommended as a starting game.

Alien vs. Predator: one of the best examples of the superiority of arcade belt scrolling beat'em ups. You could almost call it a danmaku belt scroller. Tons of enemies on screen at the same time, relentless pacing, the action never slows down. Superb combo system with juggles, OTGs, wall bounces, everything cancels with everything. Great physics too; it doesn't feel floaty like other games with complex combo systems such as Battle Circuit or Sengoku 3. Lots of freedom and damaging options, particularly for Linn. Characters are varied, with very specific playstyles, all of them are very strong. Excellent level design, challenge (maybe a bit hard to start with, but very doable once you have a decent grasp of the basics; it's not as hard as it appears at first), the best weapon system in the genre... an absolute masterpiece.

Dungeons and Dragons: Shadow Over Mystara: Has added options for multiplayer (stuff you can access only with other players on your team), great for single player too though. Very complex combo system, lots of stuff to master with the items, magic and defensive options. Several paths to choose from, large levels with hidden rooms. Only downsides are that it's a bit too long for an arcade game (a full playthrough can last 1:15 - 1:30 hours) and it's a bit unbalanced (see the burning oils, the Magic User and Cleric in general, etc), but it's a very unique and fun game.

Denjin Makai II / Guardians: looks and sounds ugly, but makes up for it with a great combo system and lots of special moves and character variety. You have different levels to choose from, which adds a lot of variety. Scoring is dumb as usual with this kind of games (you can do minute long infinites to rack a lot of points), and is a bit on the easy side but otherwise a cool game.

Other games worth playing I haven't spent as much time with: Pretty much every Capcom game is at least solid, any modern IGS beat'em up (Knights of Valor series or Oriental Legend 2 / The Gladiator if you can afford them on PCB), Sengoku Densho 2001 / Sengoku 3.

[CIT]

SFC discussion time!

Sweet!

...exactly as Mortificator said. Slow, cumbersome, tiring, repetitive. It should have been something more than the unimaginative slog it sadly is. Perhaps understanding Japanese would improve things marginally, but honestly not much.

I've gotta say I've never been a big Kunio fan to begin with, but Kunio-tachi no Banka is the one that had me sold. I'll admit that it could be I'm putting narrative and stylistic qualities above game mechanics and that I'm not putting it in context with the qualities other Technos games may have.

Sasuke is charming but so untapped. Makes me cry to think about the potential in games like this. I like to imagine said potential when playing, and then sadly put the cart back in its box.

I won't disagree, that's why I stuck the game in the "to consider" category, but I think what it offers definitely has its merits.

Listen to Skykid. Skykid has played these games thoroughly.
Rushing Beat initially appears rough as old boots. Collision looks laggy and the damage system is just barmy... but try to clear the game and you'll find a challenge that's actually a lot better organised than you may have thought, and surprisingly well-balanced. Additionally the graphics and stage design are excellent, with really nice backgrounds and some funky tunes. None of the series is particularly amazing, but Ran is plain boring and Syura is even more boring - a plodding game with very little effort in structure and design, featuring bland repetitive alien enemies and no real style.

I don't think we'll get anywhere discussing the Rushing Beat series. I really gave Rushing Beat a chance, but it's just so unrefined in all aspects, I can't recommend it at all.

I'd appreciate if you could list the moveset for me. I can't find one and I don't remember there being *too* many things you could do in the game. Let me know, I've been meaning to go back to it.

http://tacota.web.fc2.com/goulmet/index.html
Macaw also had a thread about the moves on gamengai, but I can't find it right now since the search there is busted.

Ghost Chaser is an original game, not an arcade port. There is no original.

It's a port of Denjin Makai (prequel to Guardians), but cuts a stage, the number of enemies and three playable characters and adds a couple of new moves to the remaining ones.

Also, I've had an UC PCB for years and the SFC version is so unbelievably accurate to the arcade version (difficulty included) it really is an equal experience - in some ways, it might be even better, since it has a touch more speed!

It's good as far as 16-Bit ports go, but for me those late Irem arcade games are all about the stunning graphical detail, and that's sadly lost on SFC. The game itself was always a bit tedious and repetitive to begin with (see dash move below), so the graphics are really what make it stand out imo.
What I like about the SFC version is that dash is mapped to a button. Since you'll be exploiting this move constantly to clear the game it makes everything a lot more convenient.

[Jonathan Ingram]

Is the PS2 one still worth playing even though the servers are all dead and stuff?

There`s three of them on the PS2: MH, MH G and MH2 Dos. A good chunk of their content was online only and has been inaccessible since Capcom took the servers offline. There`s little reason to bother with any of them anyway. Go straight to Monster Hunter Freedom Unite for the definitive Monster Hunter experience. It`s more newcomer friendly and has pretty much all the content of the PS2 games.

[BIL]

Ninja Warriors Again is a great game, but doesn't really play like a belt scroller. Crowd control is much simpler because getting flanked is almost impossible. Much less enemies on screen too. Definitely worth playing though since it's great at what it does.

For belt scrolling beat'em ups, arcade is hands down the way to go. 16 bit consoles were too weak to put many enemies on screen, and being threatened by many enemies who can easily surround and gang on you at the slightest positional / timing mistake is the main trait of the genre.

It's definitely more accurate to call TNWA a sidescrolling beat 'em up, but that experience of a single mistake or lapse of control easily leading to a beating from all sides is exactly how I'd characterise its Hard difficulty - certainly on later stages and bosses where enemies constantly appear from both directions. Crowd threat is more pronounced when playing as Ninja since he can't jump or crouch-run like Kunoichi or Kamaitachi, but they don't have a 360' knockdown so it evens out. I'd say it actually plays more like Final Fight than that game's own SFC port, since the inescapable single plane makes even the console's typical maximum of a couple enemies either side a threat.

[Ruldra]

Funny you guys mention that TNWA's default difficulty is so easy...I can't get past the stage 4 boss with my main (Ninja). I do manage to beat him using Kunoichi (she can duck to dodge the boss' attacks), but I'm not good with her and die pretty quickly in the next stage.

[BIL]

As Ninja, I believe you can only approach that boss safely via a shoulder tackle or hover dive (press jump to start the hover, then down for the dive variant). The first is preferable since you can connect with the tackle (it'll always beat his cane), then immediately grab him for an atomic drop and big damage. When the boss hops down from the upper level after calling in a laser strike, he's ripe for a shoulder tackle timed to connect just as he becomes vulnerable again.

The other thing I keep in mind on that boss as Ninja is, when the satellite laser is about to fire, try to have an enemy grappled so you can use the giant swing (up+attack)'s lengthy invincible frames to avoid it if you get caught in its sights.

IMO, Ninja is the hardest character to use since you can't get around the screen as easily as the others, but he's also by far the most satisfying - his brutal, manhandling style is Haggar-calibre. So many of his moves look like pure agony.