PS4 / Xbox One console war

[Ganelon]

Without a strategic breakthrough, it's impossible for Wii U to replicate Wii's success. There's no huge draw—such as motion controls—to pull casual audiences in again, and Nintendo has no head start this time around where none of the other competitors were taking Nintendo seriously.

It's difficult to understand the rationale of the GamePad. If developers use too much of the GamePad's touchscreen, then people will just expect that a similar game is available on a smartphone or tablet. If developers use a balance of the game controller and touchscreen, then Xbox offers pretty much the same with SmartGlass (just add an adjustable tray accessory to address the double controller problem). And if developers ignore the touchscreen, then the next gen systems will have the Wii U beat on technology and current gen systems have the Wii U beat on price (the GamePad is too expensive).

The Wii U may be able to draw back traditional and young gamers again when its blockbusters come out but with smartphones and tablets as technologically strong (and common) as they are now and more portable and with much cheaper games, the Wii U doesn't offer anything special to the casual crowd who already own Wii consoles. Even the Xbox One has a better plan in place as the "every feature in one" system with Kinect packed in and SmartGlass optional (because face it, how many Wii U games necessitate the GamePad screen?). Presumably, Sony is going for the pure technological gaming powerhouse angle again for PS4, and it's going to be mighty interesting to see if anyone besides diehard gamers will bite on to such a specifically focused system in today's market.

Anyway, mobile is generally more profitable than consoles right now at less risk, which is why so many companies are focusing more on it. Same with DLC/IAPs. People complain all the time about them but those complaints don't match the usual profits generated. There's a huge problem with console game costs but it's not easy to just tell large companies to spend less when less expensive games bomb in sales. And you can't collude to just force every company to make less expensive games. I have some ideas... but I'll save those for another day.

[Ed Oscuro]

Xbox offers pretty much the same with SmartGlass

Well, not exactly. Although very many people have a mobile phone up to the task, I would assume, it won't be as well-integrated or as standardized as the Wii U controller should be - and it's hard to see many developers caring about it. There will probably not be, at least in the short term, more than a few handfuls of games that use it, as there are now.

It may be I'm guilty of thinking like Pachter, but it's easy to see how the secondary small screen in every box would be considered a strategic move to ensure that developers took up the design paradigm for new gameplay ideas - especially after the success of the DS, it's easy to see how they would think "two screens good!" Unfortunately, there's a difference between a handheld where you're stuck (most of the time) with the screens right in front of you, and a console which you can use with whatever television you like. I think for "core gamers" the proposition of buying another screen doesn't make sense. Nor does it seem to offer a lot in the way of gameplay functionality - people have been used to UIs for decades now, so that having to look down at a screen probably represents a speed disadvantage and could hurt immersion more than a traditional UI might. Nintendo haven't seemed to lead the way with a game showcasing what such a system can do that other systems can't (my understanding is that NSMB U shows Twitter-like brag and spoiler messages...just when I wanted to be alone with a game. Gee, thanks, Nintendo. The ideas behind it are solid, but the system's not really up to meeting that design yet). Personally I think it's all a fool's errand for the moment - ultimately, the SmartGlass approach, with optional hardware, is probably a good idea because it's not limiting developer and user to an unwanted design paradigm 100% of the time.

So I'd have to say that, although it displeases analysts and others who want to maximize synergies between components, and maximize the use of any differentiating components between platforms, I don't see how this kind of application yet represents the kind of gimmick gamers could care about.

Ahh, Tingle Tuner 3.0.

[Friendly]

[BryanM]

Well the only good point I've heard about the tablet is using it to play a game while on the toilet or to free the TV up for something else. But at that point - "why not a DS?" begins to rear its head.

It's slightly more respectable than Sony's "we'd really like it if you bought a PS Vita" attitude, suppose..

I know this is extremely shallow, but i've played this game since 2004 obsessively and i just want to see it's graphic engine get a large boost.

Eh, I'm fine with it looking PSX2 forever - only care about moar stuff....

Monster Hunter Online is probably as good as it'll get on the $ front... invariably we'll never see that one either..

[Jonathan Ingram]

Eh, I'm fine with it looking PSX2 forever - only care about moar stuff....

MH4 looks sub-PS2.

[BryanM]

MH4 looks sub-PS2.

You're dramatically overestimating the power of the Phantasy Star 2 here.

... or really what a 5" screen needs to support...

[Friendly]

"We believe that if all you want is gaming, you'll still pick us, at the end of the day."
-Phil Spencer, Microsoft Studios corporate vice-president

http://www.oxm.co.uk/54833/xbox-one-if- ... l-pick-us/

[dcharlieJP]

Eh, I'm fine with it looking PSX2 forever - only care about moar stuff....

lol - which brings me onto my other moan : the stream of "and guess which shitty monster is coming back for MH4?" groooooooooooooan STOP STOP STOP. More new stuff please - the new Alien-style black monster looks so so good.

That said, the other changes like the much more rolling land scapes and the much more destructive environments are pretty exciting - though i can see the multilayered "fighting in a net" combat being aaaabsolute bullshit. Hey - at least underwater combat got pulled!

But i need it to start looking better personally - just because as a title it's incredibly suited to it : lush environments with big huge f-off monsters. I thought that Dragons Dogma was an engine trial run, but alas - no. If we get a MH game that looks like Deep Down then that would be pretty incredible but it simply isn't going to happen - the game is a handheld franchise primarily now and i can't see Capcom doing anything outside the offshoot online that's being done by that-huge-chinese-firm-whose-name-i've-forgotten-who-have-oodles-of-cash.

MH4 looks sub-PS2.

looks like a PSP game - i just wonder if that's how it started off? PSP was supposed to be dead by now - instead it just had a game at no.1 in Japan. It's going nowhere in a rush.

[ZellSF]

The big problem with all this is that Xbone can simply roll back if they need to, hell, Sony - for all the low level noise coming back - might have already decided on this stuff as well and might be implimenting something similar.

The sooner E3 is out the way hopefully we can get back to discussing which of the console manufacturers is the least shit.

Simply roll back? I doubt there's anything simple about it, they probably have agreements with publishers and the likes on the system. Their insane DRM scheme is speculated to be the reason they have their partnership with EA now.

[t0yrobo]

The big problem with all this is that Xbone can simply roll back if they need to, hell, Sony - for all the low level noise coming back - might have already decided on this stuff as well and might be implimenting something similar.

The sooner E3 is out the way hopefully we can get back to discussing which of the console manufacturers is the least shit.

Simply roll back? I doubt there's anything simple about it, they probably have agreements with publishers and the likes on the system. Their insane DRM scheme is speculated to be the reason they have their partnership with EA now.

In the event that MS' drm scheme works out (never underestimate stupidity of mainstream gamers) I wouldn't be terribly surprised if Sony will have a DRM system of their own just waiting to be put in with a firmware update.

[system11]

On the other hand, if PS4 has 50% of the market, which game publisher is really going to say "we're not supporting you without DRM" and dropping it like they did with the Wii-U, which had a tiny share?

[Friendly]

The big problem with all this is that Xbone can simply roll back if they need to, hell, Sony - for all the low level noise coming back - might have already decided on this stuff as well and might be implimenting something similar.

The sooner E3 is out the way hopefully we can get back to discussing which of the console manufacturers is the least shit.

Simply roll back? I doubt there's anything simple about it, they probably have agreements with publishers and the likes on the system. Their insane DRM scheme is speculated to be the reason they have their partnership with EA now.

In the event that MS' drm scheme works out (never underestimate stupidity of mainstream gamers) I wouldn't be terribly surprised if Sony will have a DRM system of their own just waiting to be put in with a firmware update.

I don't understand that line of thinking. Besides the simple fact that this (completely undeserved) fee on used games will lead to fewer sales because people have less disposable income to put towards new games (which is why any publisher with half a brain shouldn't be an favor if it, either), why should the other companies do it just because Microsoft does it?
The others didn't adopt Microsoft's online paywall scheme, either. Not taking away private property rights from their consumers may work in favor of Sony (and Nintendo). Publishers lack the power to force Sony's hand; they can't afford NOT to have their games on PS4. Most (if not all) of the sports licenses include terms that forbid console exclusivity, which is why NFL etc. will end up on PS4 no matter what.

[ZellSF]

The big problem with all this is that Xbone can simply roll back if they need to, hell, Sony - for all the low level noise coming back - might have already decided on this stuff as well and might be implimenting something similar.

The sooner E3 is out the way hopefully we can get back to discussing which of the console manufacturers is the least shit.

Simply roll back? I doubt there's anything simple about it, they probably have agreements with publishers and the likes on the system. Their insane DRM scheme is speculated to be the reason they have their partnership with EA now.

In the event that MS' drm scheme works out (never underestimate stupidity of mainstream gamers) I wouldn't be terribly surprised if Sony will have a DRM system of their own just waiting to be put in with a firmware update.

They would probably have to run that by every publisher they work with too. Not something I think they could do post-launch and retroactively apply to all games.

If Sony's doing the same thing (not unlikely), I expect to see it at launch.

[Friendly]

Here's what Mark Cerny, designer of the PS4 thinks about DRM: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... XY#t=4230s

Conclusion: Smart people are not in favor of it. Too much greed seems to have a detrimental effect on your mental faculties.

One other thought that should be entertained: Sony is a (mostly) Japanese company. In Japan, where renting games is illegal, used games play a very important role in the video game eco system (you finish a game, you resell it. This also has to with space, or rather, the lack thereof). How do you think Japanese gamers will react if you try to curb their rights and leech off the used market?

[t0yrobo]

In the event that MS' drm scheme works out (never underestimate stupidity of mainstream gamers) I wouldn't be terribly surprised if Sony will have a DRM system of their own just waiting to be put in with a firmware update.

I don't understand that line of thinking. Besides the simple fact that this (completely undeserved) fee on used games will lead to fewer sales because people have less disposable income to put towards new games (which is why any publisher with half a brain shouldn't be an favor if it, either), why should the other companies do it just because Microsoft does it?
The others didn't adopt Microsoft's online paywall scheme, either. Not taking away private property rights from their consumers may work in favor of Sony (and Nintendo). Publishers lack the power to force Sony's hand; they can't afford NOT to have their games on PS4. Most (if not all) of the sports licenses include terms that forbid console exclusivity, which is why NFL etc. will end up on PS4 no matter what.

I'm not trying to imply that it's likely or even a good idea. But the line of thinking is that Microsofts DRM system could make it more attractive to large publishers (like EA) and make them more interested in releasing stuff for the xbox with some level of exclusivity (like EA). In the unlikely event that it's attractive enough to publishers that they start demanding something similar of Sony, or say the PS4 gets hacked early on, I'm sure Sony has built in the ability to roll out their own drm system if needed. These are basically PCs after all.

It'd probably have to run on a game by game basis for the exact reason ZellSF stated, which if you're going to get stuck with drm I think it'd be the ideal way to do it. That way a company full of DRM loving douchebags like EA or Ubisoft could apply it to their games and others wouldn't be forced to. Or for that matter those companies would do what they've already done and operate the drm themselves.

[Ed Oscuro]

Not to mention that if a gamer thinks that a physical disc has no value, then it's seen as being part of an aggressively wasteful campaign. Some people in Japan must be ecologically-minded, I'm sure.

If anything that's probably an argument for digital distribution, but Microsoft is wanting to have it both ways here - retail presence and offering the "feel" of the game being in a physical format, while accruing to themselves all (or nearly all) the advantages of a digital-only distribution.

[O. Van Bruce]

Not to mention that if a gamer thinks that a physical disc has no value, then it's seen as being part of an aggressively wasteful campaign. Some people in Japan must be ecologically-minded, I'm sure.

If anything that's probably an argument for digital distribution, but Microsoft is wanting to have it both ways here - retail presence and offering the "feel" of the game being in a physical format, while accruing to themselves all (or nearly all) the advantages of a digital-only distribution.

The phisical copy gives then the excuse to continue selling those games at 60 or 70 bucks. Can't let the profit drop dude.

[jandrogo]

In a near future... If I buy a car, then get bored of it and sell it... Will the new owner be forced to pay a fine to the car brand for not being the original buyer?

This MUST be legally forbidden, to Microsoft or any other mark/brand.. Just to avoid future consumer abuse. Introduces a dangerous precedent

[BulletMagnet]

The phisical copy gives then the excuse to continue selling those games at 60 or 70 bucks. Can't let the profit drop dude.

Not like most console-based downloadable versions of games have been priced much cheaper than their disc-based counterparts up 'til now as it is.

[ZacharyB]

In a near future... If I buy a car, then get bored of it and sell it... Will the new owner be forced to pay a fine to the car brand for not being the original buyer?

This MUST be legally forbidden, to Microsoft or any other mark/brand.. Just to avoid future consumer abuse. Introduces a dangerous precedent

In the United States, we already pay sales tax on the sale price of used vehicles every time we go to register them at the Department of Motor Vehicles.

[neorichieb1971]

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/feature.html ... 1000705753

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/feature.html ... 1000722053

I won't be buying at those prices.

Must be a place holder or something as they are the same prices

edit : Amazon is only putting these up as pre order prices. The prices will go down and they offer a cheapest price match on day of release.

[Friendly]

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/feature.html ... 1000705753

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/feature.html ... 1000722053

I won't be buying at those prices.

Must be a place holder or something as they are the same prices

derp.

Please note that there are no official prices announced for PlayStation 4 products. The price stated above is a placeholder. With our Pre-order Price Guarantee, you can order now and if the Amazon.co.uk price decreases between the time you place your order and the release date, you'll be charged the lowest price. For more on PlayStation 4, click here.

[neorichieb1971]

I think all this is only relevant to 3rd party software. If you want to play an exclusive title to each of the consoles you have play by the consoles rules. People who condemn DRM now will have a different stance when something amazing comes out exclusively for the DRM console.

On the surface of things, I don't mind DRM. But it has to be transparent. If all my games had DRM on them today I wouldn't notice, because I buy most of my games new and I'm always online.

People who want total freedom abuse it. People who have the power to take away freedoms abuse it. No matter what/whom/when, someone will complain. But lets be honest, DRM only exists to resolve a pre existing problem. Its not put in out of spite. If DRM was bullet proof and game prices came down to $30 a pop (unlikely I know) I don't think too many people would be against it.

Region locking on the other hand is a satanic verse on page 1 of the devils bible. Governments around the world should outlaw it.

[Friendly]

People who condemn DRM now will have a different stance when something amazing comes out exclusively for the DRM console.

Dumb people, maybe. Some of us have principles. I won't buy a console that is defective by design (can only be played as long as the online infrastructure of its maker is still in place) and that takes away my right to own property. Console games are too expensive as it is; publishers and console makers do not deserve any additional compensation after the initial sales transaction is complete (which compensates them in full), and they have no right to dictate how I can transfer ownership.

[Skykid]

People who condemn DRM now will have a different stance when something amazing comes out exclusively for the DRM console.

Dumb people, maybe. Some of us have principles. I won't buy a console that is defective by design (can only be played as long as the online infrastructure of its maker is still in place) and that takes away my right to own property. Console games are too expensive as it is; publishers and console makers do not deserve any additional compensation after the initial sales transaction is complete (which compensates them in full), and they have no right to dictate how I can transfer ownership.

I agree with this statement.

[Ed Oscuro]

Haha, Shuhei Yoshida's "DRM" post is the best thing yet.

However there are still restrictions on the use of used games on the Vita, so...

By the way, my great respect for Jim Sterling's reporting only continues to increase. There's lots of good journalists on the game beat these days, I'm sure, but Jim must be in the front class.

Also you have to love quotes like these:

Companies will only go further, the more confident they are that the audience will just open up and gleefully take barrels of shit rolled directly into their mouths.

This guy fell out of the buzzword tree and hit every branch on the way down.

and finally:

Considering I'm fairly sure my current PC can run Killzone: Shadow Fall, and the Xbox One's feature set largely consists of things already in my Smart TV, [...]

Just kidding, here's another. From another article:

[...] apparently [Microsoft person] believes he could burn down your house and still sign you up for Xbox Live. [...] Videogame market history doesn't tend to favor hubris.

He even managed to work a Highlander reference into one of those green Xbox One ad edits.

[Friendly]

Haha, Shuhei Yoshida's "DRM" post is the best thing yet.

However there are still restrictions on the use of used games on the Vita, so...

Unless you mean online passes (which are indeed annoying and shouldn't exist) for some games, there ae no other restrictions.

[BryanM]

I liked this thread more when it was about Monster Hunter : (

"Terrorism is bad" just isn't A Good Cartoon.

Maybe to shift things a bit here: Which exclusives do you expect/would have hoped for this thing, the terrorism being ignored?

[AweOfShe]

I don't know if it was mentioned here already, since I'm kind of late to the party, but there was a post on NeoGAF that might actually resonate with some of the sentiment here.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread. ... st59545309

I don't know if you guys will agree or disagree, but I thought it was a pretty well written post in any case.

[Skykid]

^ That's actually an outstanding post. Someone should mail it to Microsoft's ceo.