Which Dreamcast vga box should I buy?

[Endgame22]

I have bought one by XG and I can't get an image most of the time, really finicky cable and the metal plug has come out of its plastic casing. This is the one I bought http://item.mobileweb.ebay.ca/viewitem? ... 1018299482

I need a new one now, and I found an official Sega Dreamcast vga box on ebay for about $140 us dollars. However, there are numerous other boxes that are around the $50-$75 range. I found a brand new Hais one on ebay for $50. Is it worth dishing out the money for the official box, or would a third party one such as the Hais be the same.

Thanks

[shmuppyLove]

Keep in mind not every game supports VGA output -- this might be the reason you're getting a blank screen.

Nothing to do with the adapter itself, which actually doesn't do a whole lot because the DC will natively output a VGA signal.

http://www.gamesx.com/wiki/doku.php?id=av:dreamcastav

There is a way to 'trick' incompatible games into working with VGA output.

Which games are giving you trouble?

[Endgame22]

Resident Evil Code Veronica, Shenmue, Razor, quite a few. I can't even get the boot up and home screen though, it usually won't have an image even with no disc in the system.

[Endgame22]

Also, I am using a vga to 5 bnc cable going from vga box to a Vp30 upscaler. I fiddled with the sync and framerate on the upscaler and it seems fine, I think it's a connection problem with the vga box because I rarely can get an image, but when I do it stays and works fine.... Until I touch the cable or reset the system.

[HydrogLox]

This is the one I bought http://www.ebay.ca/itm/151018299482

I wasn't too crazy about the build quality of the Dreamcast AV connector on that one when I received it - though at least mine worked.

You may want to check out the Hanzo - Dreamcast VGA box & Scanline generator that is being built and assembled by one of the members there.

YouTube: HANZO Dreamcast VGA Box / Scanliner Overview

It doesn't have the S-Video/composite video options like the commercial ones but it does have a 15/31kHz switch so all games should work with it - and it would allow you to perform the Dreamcast VGA switch trick to force some games into 31kHz even when they don't officially support it. And the scanliner is a nice touch to. There is a thread about the Hanzo here.

[Endgame22]

Looks really cool, I love that it has a built in scanline generator as well. Unfortunate I can't use this scanline generator for other systems. It's also very new and more of a prototype, not sure if it's reliable compared to other vga boxes that have been on the market for years, such as the Naki and Hais.

[MinuteFong]

I've got a Hanzo on order after having no luck with one of these (despite it appearing to work for many other buyers). I've checked the DC internals, the soldering on the AV connector looks solid and I cleaned it to be safe, but only a very faint image appears on various VGA monitors (CRT and LCD). It's an NTSC-J DC running off a stepdown convertor, not sure if that makes a difference...anyway I'll let you know how the Hanzo works for me.

[Endgame22]

That would be great, thanks

[HydrogLox]

Unfortunate I can't use this scanline generator for other systems.

He had a run of standalone scanline generators - but he is basically making only making Hanzos right now because that is what he wants to be making. The ArcadeForge Scanline Generator SLG 3000 seems to be the forum favorite standalone scanline generator (fagin's review). Ideally you would want a Kuro VGA Box but it is uncertain whether he will be making anymore of those.

It's also very new and more of a prototype, not sure if it's reliable compared to other vga boxes that have been on the market for years, such as the Naki and Hais.

Well, the one that disappointed you was a commercially manufactured one. The Genuine Sega VGA box commands ridiculous prices even used (this one is the cheapest one I have seen in a while - but it looks a bit worse for wear). I purchased this type from racketboy for US$30 + 25 shipping in April 2012. The 3.5 mm stereo socket is finicky and will likely need to be replaced some time in the near future. Most of these "new" 3rd party VGA boxes were manufactured in the heyday of the Sega Dreamcast to be sold for $19.95 or less - so they work most of the time though the manufacturing standards and quality control were questionable. They were never that reliable and now command ridiculous prices because it is no longer viable to manufacture them in quantity on an assembly line (which is why the retro gaming community has to rely on a handful of amateur (i.e. they have a day-job) modders to create special cables and electronics).

To top is all off - the VGA box doesn't do anything! All the signals come directly from the Dreamcast. The internals of the VGA box are well known (http://www.gamesx.com/grafx/dricas.gif). In fact you can make a Dreamcast VGA cable without the box (schematic) - which is exactly what Cabou (YouTube: Cabou's VGA cables) does - the necessary capacitors and resistors are most likely hidden in VGA connector.

However Cabou's cable has one disadvantage - it doesn't incoporate the RGB(15kHz)/VGA(31kHz) switch - which makes sense as most people's TV/VGA monitors would not support 15kHz RGB. I suspect that your DVDO iScan VP30 has no problem with 15kHz RGB. With Cabou's VGA cable you would have to swap to a Dreamcast RGB SCART cable to play games that are not VGA compatible or patchable - and you could not use the "VGA switch trick" on "VGA patchable" games either.

The 15kHz/31kHz switch can be added to most Dreamcast VGA boxes (as long as pin 6 and 7 are separately wired). The Hanzo comes with this switch and instead of a fragile 3.5 mm stereo socket two RCA sockets are used for audio. For the current run he seems to be using professionally manufactured PCBs. Granted the case and the holes for the switches look a bit rough but it is unlikely that you will be putting the box on display.

[Endgame22]

That "official" one you linked to is fake I think, the word 'dreamcast' is the engraved on the top of the box. In any case, it seems best to get a Hanzo by the sound of your description, more bang for your buck. So how does the vga trick work when using the hanzo, do you use the 15Khz signal instead of 31Khz?

[Fudoh]

Yes, the first one linked ($139) above is the original, the second one ($68) is a knock-off. Doesn't say about anything about quality though - might very well still be a good one. I have the original and I ordered a Hanzo for my 2nd DC setup.

[HydrogLox]

That "official" one you linked to is fake I think, the word 'dreamcast' is the engraved on the top of the box.

Yes, the first one linked ($139) above is the original, the second one ($68) is a knock-off.

Oops ... sorry about that . Explains the price which is still outrageous.

So how does the vga trick work when using the hanzo, do you use the 15Khz signal instead of 31Khz?

• Switch to RGB (15 kHz).
• Turn on Dreamcast.
• After Dreamcast logo screen/sound switch to VGA (31 kHz).

Just keep in mind that for some games the result is not exactly desirable - better leave those switched to RGB (15 kHz) altogether.

[papa_november]

I had to buy a DC VGA box for a friend recently and I just could not believe how bad the prices are now. They're more expensive than the console itself!

Would be nice to see a DC SCART cable that has a 15/31khz switch on it - it would be the best option for Framemeister users.

[Endgame22]

oesn't say about anything about quality though - might very well still be a good one.

It might be fine, but it's still really pricy. The one I bought before apparently worked well for many, but for me it doesn't.

Switch to RGB (15 kHz).
Turn on Dreamcast.
After Dreamcast logo screen/sound switch to VGA (31 kHz).
Just keep in mind that for some games the result is not exactly desirable - better leave those switched to RGB (15 kHz) altogether.

Great, good to know. I think I'm leaning more towards Hanzo now. Considering the price and the features it has, plus the good feedback so far, it may be worth picking it up.

[Endgame22]

I hope that I have actually hooked everything up right. I've upscaled image to 720p from Dc to Vp30 using a vga to 5 bnc cable. I have framerate set to 60 hz on the vp30 (I've tried both locked and unlocked, not sure what it should be or why it matters). I'll need a new vga box anyways because mine is breaking, but I'm hoping that my image problems is a result of the box and not my stupidity.

As a note, I am in Canada. Just to give you a frame of reference.

[HydrogLox]

I rarely can get an image, but when I do it stays and works fine.... Until I touch the cable or reset the system.

I can't get an image most of the time, really finicky cable and the metal plug has come out of its plastic casing.

I suspect that the hookup is OK as you can get an image sometimes. The fact that the Dreamcast resets could suggest that some contacts on the A/V port are shorting and/or losing their connections. It may be safer to use the standard composite A/V cable with the system for the time being. Hopefully the Dreamcast won't reset anymore.

[Ed Oscuro]

I had to buy a DC VGA box for a friend recently and I just could not believe how bad the prices are now. They're more expensive than the console itself!

By seven times...I would look in thrifts and classifieds first.

[Endgame22]

@HydrogLox, I meant to say that I myself reset the Dreamcast. It doesn't reset by itself. Anytime I turned off the console and turned it back on, I wouldn't get an image most of the time. Sometimes if I keep resetting it, it will work, but that is only sometimes. Good to know my hookup should be fine, but what is the difference between 60 hz lock and unlock?
My Genesis RGB Scart connection only works when set to unlock.

[Ji-L87]

I would just like to mention that I have the same VGA box as the OP, and I too have been having issues getting a picture with a VGA -> BNC cable on my VP30. Sometimes it would work, and sometimes it just wouldn't display anything. It was a while since I last tested this, and maybe I had some bad settings, but I thought I'd just throw this out here.

[Endgame22]

Interesting, someone with the EXACT same same problem as me! It could very well be that particular vga box then. I don't think it's the vp30, many people use this setup. If it's a settings issue then I can't for the life of me figure out what settings would be wrong.

I'm going to buy a new vga box to confirm what the problem is, can anyone tell me if the Hanzo is good? Has anyone used it yet?

[HydrogLox]

It could very well be that particular vga box then. I don't think it's the vp30, many people use this setup. If it's a settings issue then I can't for the life of me figure out what settings would be wrong.

I don't know anything about DVDO's video processors - as it is I know precious little about the XRGB-Mini that I own. However if you look at the 16 pins of the AV connector of the XG DC VGA Box you should notice that the 16 contacts are very uneven.

• Both Mode Select 1 (pin 6) and 2 (pin 7) on the Dreamcast have to be grounded for the console to output 31kHz VGA.
• The Dreamcast switch trick demonstrates that the console will readily switch from one video mode to another based on the grounding on the Mode Select 1 and 2 AV pins.
• A bad connection on Mode Select 1 (pin 6) would switch the video signal between 15 and 31 kHz. I don't think that is what is happening here.
• A bad connection on Mode Select 2 (pin 7) would switch the video signal between 31 kHz and undefined.

So an intermittent connection on the Dreamcast's AV pin 7 is just one of the potential ways that poor build quality could cause problems. Have you tried using the S-Video or composite video outputs on the VGA box? Both of those should work when Mode Select 1 and 2 are both open. If you are experiencing problems when switching to TV then your box may be having even bigger problems.

Would be nice to see a DC SCART cable that has a 15/31khz switch on it - it would be the best option for Framemeister users.

I think you would have to make that a Dreamcast XRGB-Mini (15/31 khz) box using an 8 pin mini-DIN (male) connector with optional 8 pin mini-DIN (female) to EURO SCART or JP21 adapter for SCART switch users. You basically need to slow people down from using the box on SCART displays that can't tolerate 31 kHz.

[Endgame22]

if you look at the 16 pins of the AV connector of the XG DC VGA Box you should notice that the 16 contacts are very uneven.

Only the first 3 pin on the vga box (so I guess last 3 pins on the Dreamcast?) look uneven.
I haven't tested composite or s video yet.

[HydrogLox]

Only the first 3 pin on the vga box (so I guess last 3 pins on the Dreamcast?) look uneven.

Pin 14,15,16 are the blue, green, red signals - so that would cause missing colours. Pin 1,2,3 are ground, right, left audio - an intermittent ground would be highly problematic though you should also notice that the PC/TV LEDs are not lit or flicker. There is no continuity between the AV connector's metal sleeve and ground so pin 1 is the only place for the box to get ground.

A shoddy PC/TV switch could also be the culprit - though it is likely that then the PC/TV LEDs wouldn't work properly either. Basically your box could be running the Dreamcast in "Standard" (TV) mode even though you have the box set to "PC" mode (and despite the "PC" LED being lit as that is likely directly controlled by the switch). As you mentioned that touching the AV cable can make the picture disappear a defective AV cable/connector would be the principal candidate (you also mentioned that the AV connector is falling apart - making it the primary suspect). The box is powered by Dreamcast - so every time you power up the Dreamcast you could be rolling the dice on whether any borderline "Mode Select" connections/contacts are seen as open or grounded - determining whether the Dreamcast runs in "Standard" (TV), "VGA" (PC), "RGB" or "undefined" video mode.

Of course there could be a myriad of other things wrong with the box.

[beharius]

Hi all!
Thanks for the compliments. I'm also building the new versions of Scanliner and Kuro boxes. They are all PCB based with custom plexi cases. I can honestly admit that they are the ultimate upgrades for your DC.
Kuro is a DC VGA box with RCA audio jacks. It can be later upgraded to Hanzo for scanline features.
Scanliner is a basic scanline generator including even/odd, width select and on/off switches. You can turn off the scanlines whenever you want. PCB based+plexi case, featuring custom pigtail VGA cable with higher quality switches for longer life.
Hanzo is the ULTIMATE DC VGA box, it has a scanliner function which you can turn off whenever you want, even/odd, width select switches. RCA audio output jacks.
I am paying too much attention to build high quality products which are stabile and durable for years.
All are now being build now, started to take orders for a while...
Thanks for yor interest!

Unfortunate I can't use this scanline generator for other systems.

He had a run of standalone scanline generators - but he is basically making only making Hanzos right now because that is what he wants to be making. The ArcadeForge Scanline Generator SLG 3000 seems to be the forum favorite standalone scanline generator (fagin's review). Ideally you would want a Kuro VGA Box but it is uncertain whether he will be making anymore of those.

It's also very new and more of a prototype, not sure if it's reliable compared to other vga boxes that have been on the market for years, such as the Naki and Hais.

The 15kHz/31kHz switch can be added to most Dreamcast VGA boxes (as long as pin 6 and 7 are separately wired). The Hanzo comes with this switch and instead of a fragile 3.5 mm stereo socket two RCA sockets are used for audio. For the current run he seems to be using professionally manufactured PCBs. Granted the case and the holes for the switches look a bit rough but it is unlikely that you will be putting the box on display.

[Endgame22]

I tried using the composite connection on the Vga box, and it stil doesn't show an image. I decided to buy a Kuro and a Scanliner from the user on asssemblergames. He now has the revised Kuro Dreamcast Vga box available, so I ordered it.
I will let you know how it is when it arrives.
Thank you guys so much for your advice and suggestions!

[HydrogLox]

FYI: According to VP30 question, where to find SCART to RCA cables? the BNC RGB input on the VP30 can't handle 15kHz. So to take full advantage of the Kuro's 15/31Khz switch you would need a setup like Dreamcast ultimate RGB box mod – No more RGB cable swapping!.

[Endgame22]

I see. Well I don't have Scart inputs on my television, so his setup wouldn't be ideal for my situation if I wanted to switch to 15Khz. Most games work with the vga box, but for some games obviously I would need to to some sort of trick. Would I need a boot disc then?

[HydrogLox]

You don't need a boot disc - but you at least need a way to hear when it is time to switch from 15 kHz to 31 kHz to perform the VGA switch trick.
And the SCART connector isn't at the core of the issue.

• In the 15kHz position the DC game will either output 480i or 240p - it is the game's choice - not yours.
• If I'm reading the iScan VP30 PDF manual correctly 240p isn't supported at all.
• 480i isn't supported on the BNC RGBHV inputs. 480i is supported as RGBS on the component inputs. However the Dreamcast only generates RGBHV. So an adapter cable would have to go from DE-15 -> RCA and combine the sync with either an active or passive sync combiner circuit (that is what the UMSA is doing in the above setup).

[justice99]

I see. Well I don't have Scart inputs on my television, so his setup wouldn't be ideal for my situation if I wanted to switch to 15Khz. Most games work with the vga box, but for some games obviously I would need to to some sort of trick. Would I need a boot disc then?

Solution : http://www.assemblergames.com/forums/sh ... -generator

You can switch between 15/31Khz.

[Endgame22]

@justice99 I just ordered a. Kuro from him which has the switch, the issue is allowing the 15khz signal to be read by my Vp30 upscaler.

@HydrogLox I have never soldered in my life, I wouldn't know where to begin with these schematics. I don't know what an active or passive sync circuit is either.