Streets of Rage 3.

[Samudra]

I have to say I've been a big fan of SOR 2 ever since it came out. The gameplay, the music, the levels; everything fits together so nicely there.
When SOR 3 came out I never got around to playing it.

Now I finally had the chance to play it properly (played it some years ago for a few minutes only) and I was suprised in a bad way. I guess "different" is the best way to call it if you expect a game similar to SOR 2.

The sound effects seem all downgraded in quality and the gameplay feels more like Final Fight than SOR2.

I like electronic music. Experimental music, glitch, &c. all I find interesting. But this? It all starts out gently, but after a while I thought maybe some sound settings were set wrong in the emulator.

SOR 2 had great backgrounds. Who can forget the level in which you fight Zamza? SOR 3 all looks bland and industrial.

At one point the game throws so many ninjas at you it feels like a cheap b-movie. SOR 2 always had this great selection and spacing of enemies. Looking back at it now I wonder how they managed, because it really works out great.
Also the bosses are generic. None of them, except for the one taken out outside Japan, is memorable. The SOR 2 bosses all were so unique.

I've seen some people commenting in other threads on how they like this game, so if you have the time please tell a bit about it. My suspicion is that I'm looking at the game from a wrong point of view.
Comparing one with another it is easy to find fault.

[Skyline]

About the only real stride this game made in the series was the tweaked gameplay system. Everything was faster, from the ability to run to the execution of the moves as a whole. The AI was improved as well, so in that even though you had the ability to whore out your specials every 15 seconds or so, the enemies wouldn't let you off that easy. Compared to the previous two games, SoR3 was much more frantic, and a bit more fun as a result. Going back to SoR2 was sort of a chore at first honestly, because of how slow the characters walked.

That said, it's a shame that some of the level designs were straight up retarded. HEY LET'S BREAK THROUGH SMALL BRICK WALLS THAT I COULD JUST JUMP OVER ANYWAY! OHSHIT HERE COMES A BULLDOZER WAIT I CAN JUST PUNCH IT LIGHTLY AND IT'LL BACK OFF!!11!1!SHIFT

The player sprites themselves have sort of a pre-rendered look to them, and while they animate allright, there was a hell of a lot less detail on them, as well as the backgrounds.

The music is really interesting to say the least, since at that time no one had really used anything resembling Acid Techno or Experimental in a video game before, plus the genre(s) itself wasn't that well-known. Today, it's a pretty good soundtrack standalone-ish, although I remember going "What the hell?!" hearing it back when it was released. But you still can't beat SoR2's music, that game's audio just had that extra little bit of polish to it.

Seriously, the perfect SoR game would pretty much be SoR2's character and level design with 3's cracked-out gameplay.

[LoneSage]

As a kid, SOR3 was my favorite of the trilogy because they had a cyborg man and a kangaroo.


Nowadays I'm not sure what to expect. I do remember being really floored by the music in this game; ugh, friggin shame SOA had the Vectorman games instead of SOR. I woulda bought that Sonic Collection 2 just for Streets of Rage 3, which has been so hard for me to find.

[BrianC]

As a kid, SOR3 was my favorite of the trilogy because they had a cyborg man and a kangaroo.


Nowadays I'm not sure what to expect. I do remember being really floored by the music in this game; ugh, friggin shame SOA had the Vectorman games instead of SOR. I woulda bought that Sonic Collection 2 just for Streets of Rage 3, which has been so hard for me to find.

The Japanese versions have Vectorman too. SEGA did the lazy thing and just removed games from the US collection rather than replacing them. Very lame.

[Shatterhand]

I refer SoR 2 a lot more. I still think SoR 2 is the best game in the whole genre, better than any capcom attempt at a progressive beat'em up.

And though the game may be too easy in the default settings, its pretty challeging in harder levels.

[Stormwatch]

In comparison to the Japanese version, SoR3 was somewhat castrated. Check here.

[Ganelon]

The electronic music only sounds strange because the tunes were partially generated by computer. Nearly everybody prefers SOR2's tunes more, except maybe electronica or jungle fans. Some SOR3 tunes are very memorable though despite not being that great...

I think SOR3 has amazing cityscape backgrounds. The end boss background looks incredibly detailed. So I'd definitely disagree there. SOR3's character sprites on the other hand do seem a bit more pixellated for some reason.

I also think SOR3 has much more interesting bosses. The bosses in all the SORs have very unique attack patterns so I'm not sure what you're getting at here besides than personal preferences.

What excels in the game is the extra effort put into making the game smoother. You have vertical rolls and dashes. The use of the 6-button controller gives you easy access to knockdown and back attacks as well as specials (on a side note, it's interesting to point out that the Sonic Gems Collection versions auto-maps these secondary attacks into separate buttons for you, which could not be done on the original games). There's no "constricted movement feeling" that you have on older beat-em-ups and the removal of a timer seems to encourage more playing around.

The characters, notably Zan and Roo, were very diverse and interesting. You have multiple paths and multiple endings. There's plenty of different objects to destroy and interactive stages that help deviate from the generic "move forward and defeat all enemies" ideology found in most beat-em-ups.

The weapons actually self-destruct unlike in SOR2 where you could whack away with a pipe for a whole scene unchallenged. And trying to throw Dwights results in them falling on you, which is a minor but nice touch. There's various types of specials you can perform with certain weapons now, which helps separate the feel of the characters. Meanwhile, Shiva and Ash add great overpowering replay value.

SOR3 is basically the ultimate 2D sidescroller that collected the best aspects of what defined a beat-em-up. Some feel the same way I do; other find it a disappointment from SOR2. I'm not exactly sure why. It's still my fave game in the genre so I'd be glad to share more if you have questions.

[benstylus]

The Japanese versions have Vectorman too. SEGA did the lazy thing and just removed games from the US collection rather than replacing them. Very lame.

It was not the "lazy" approach as you might think - it was a calculated business decision.

With the streets of rage games in there, they might have to bump the rating up to T, which would turn off a lot of parents buying the game for young kids.

[Ganelon]

Indeed, Sonic Gems Collection actually has an SOR title image and English description (though in noticeably more broken English than the other games' descriptions) for each of the BK games. So you could say Sega did more work removing the ROMs from the discs for the US version.

[BrianC]

The Japanese versions have Vectorman too. SEGA did the lazy thing and just removed games from the US collection rather than replacing them. Very lame.

It was not the "lazy" approach as you might think - it was a calculated business decision.

With the streets of rage games in there, they might have to bump the rating up to T, which would turn off a lot of parents buying the game for young kids.

Yes, I know the reasons why it was removed (I never said I didn't and you know what they say about assuming things...), but I still think it was stupid how they just removed the games without putting any other games in their place. Also, Bonanza Bros is an E rated game and wouldn't have changed the rating, but was still removed. Seriously, it may have been a calculated business decision, but there are plenty of good E rated games on the Genesis that SEGA could have replaced the SoR games with. IMO, removing the games and leaving the US disc with less games than the Japanese version is lazy, calculated business decision or not.

[azmun]

I've seen some people commenting in other threads on how they like this game, so if you have the time please tell a bit about it. My suspicion is that I'm looking at the game from a wrong point of view.

While most fans regard part 2 as the best in the trilogy, I certainly don't see why they can't find the same enjoyment here. Like others, I had very high expectations and was a bit disappointed when part 3 first came out around a decade ago. This was mostly due to the changes in overall presentation, level design and music which I felt were downgraded. However, I consider both games to be relatively similar and the best the genre ever offered.

Basically, part 3 has refined the graphics and gameplay of its predecessor. The characters have more details and moves (I especially liked having the team tactics back) and the overall pace is better (i.e. faster). Consequently I have grown to like part 3 just as much as part 2.

[PepsimanVsJoe]

I agree 100% with Ganelon.

For me part 3 plays far better than part 2. The roll adds so much to the game imo since you finally have a decent evade option. It felt so stupid sometimes when you could see the ninja jump into the air ready to throw his wave of shurikens and you're stuck trying to move verrryyyy slowly up or down to get away from it. Also the dash let's you cover ground faster and helps to balance the character roster.

Other issues I'm happy to see cleared up include Character balance. Disregarding the absolutely broken guys like Ash and Shiva, the main roster is definitely better put designed than in the previous outing. For one Max was cut entirely. Originally I cried foul at this until I played the previous game again. Max is freaking borked. He's got the best dash attack in the game, a submission grab that takes off an entire life meter, the best super(Download the SoR 2 vid at www.archive.org for more on that), And the most damaging throws in the game. By comparison the cast of Streets of Rage 3 have been reworked and everyone feels more balanced(Though Zan's dash is a little overpowered imo).

Stage variety was also more interesting. While granted you visited some cool areas in Streets of Rage 2 like a baseball field, a freaking alien/mutant funhouse, and a factory. Nothing really happened in any of these stages that made them feel different from other ones. Oh sure in the alien area you got some exploding eggs and a dumb fight with some sort of alien whatever thing but most of the other stages the cool backdrops were just that..cool backdrops.

By the second stage in Streets of Rage 3 you're in a disco completely with all of the flashing disconcerting lights, then in stage 3 you've got some fun wind physics to play around with(Like throwing an enemy clear from one side of the screen to a pit, or knocking them over by catapulting falling barrels at them with a well-timed punch.). You've also got a much better designed elevator stage(Tossing people off edges never gets old..why didn't SoR2 have that?). From there you go to the Subway stage where you have to deal with the threat of the carts rolling cross at set points. Now although it seems there is an alternating pattern to the cars they seem to mix them up at certain points to screw with you. You actually have to look closely at the tracks(note the vibration) to see which one is coming next, and this is with a gang of bad guys hounding you at the same time.

The entire game feels better designed also. The hitbox detection is sweet as all hell. Little touches like using Blaze's back-attack(The ducking sweep) to dodge Yamato's shuriken and Skate/Sammy's dash going under the fifth bosses' machinegun fire really add to the effect.

If anyone is interested I have a replay of Bare Knuckle 3 using Sammy on Very Hard. It's admittedly pretty bad but I did manage to reach the final boss and do a fair chunk of damage on him(I probably would have beat the game as well if it wasn't for that awful stage 6 boss performance). It was recording using a version of Gens which can save/play recorded movies, however you need the original rom for this to work.

[LoneSage]

It was not the "lazy" approach as you might think - it was a calculated business decision.

With the streets of rage games in there, they might have to bump the rating up to T, which would turn off a lot of parents buying the game for young kids.

I've honestly never seen a kid buy a Sonic Collection. I always see older guys and gamers from the 16-bit era buying them at Target, GameStop, etc. If anything, I'd say they hurt themselves, because I know there are more people out there like me who haven't bought the collection because of the exclusion of SOR.

Kids nowadays, they really don't care about anything 2D on any console. I guess someone forgot to give SOA the memo.

[Turrican]

Well, count me with the SoR 2 faction, Samudra. I don't know if we're seeing it from a wrong perspective, but I know my feelings were quite spread on reviews and fans back then, and you can read a similar opinion on the awesome "Soronline" site.

I partially agree what Ganelon says. The game, from a pure gameplay perspective, is faster and has more depth in 3. And that's something that I am sure you will come to appreciate with time.

However, it can be debated if this genre really needs all that depth. But whatever answer you give, it surely didn't need it at the expense of overall atmosphere.

SoR 2 has one of the best soundtracks ever. SoR 3 wouldn't enter my top 100. SoR 2 sprites are more polished, and the backgrounds in 2 have something crazy about them... It's difficult to explain the charm of going into a pirate galleon, an alien nest, and a secret underground base below a baseball stadium. It's something so cheesy that you just have to love. But if you love a more "urban" setting, then your best choice is SoR 1.

3 has some strong points too: the recurring Shiva enemy is cool, Ayano Koshiro's character design is at her very best, the story is nice, and yeah, a cyborg and a kangaroo do add points.

However, perhaps 3 was seen as too little too late when it came out. In 1992, SoR 2 was one of the coolest thin around, but in 1994 the whole formula was growing old fast. I think you might do a Super Shinobi / Super Shinobi 2 comparison: while some will argue that S Shinobi 2 does a lot of cool things, it still somewhat falls short in front of its ancestor. And I didn't even mention yet hos the western version was screwed (which didn't help of course).

[Stormwatch]

I think you might do a Super Shinobi / Super Shinobi 2 comparison: while some will argue that S Shinobi 2 does a lot of cool things, it still somewhat falls short in front of its ancestor.

Not really. Revenge of Shinobi was mostly very good, but also had some points with very cheap deaths, and the labyrinth was ridiculously complex. I prefer Shinobi 3 because it is faster, prettier, and better balanced - even though its music was not very memorable.

[Turrican]

Not really. Revenge of Shinobi was mostly very good, but also had some points with very cheap deaths, and the labyrinth was ridiculously complex. I prefer Shinobi 3 because it is faster, prettier, and better balanced - even though its music was not very memorable.

Yes, well... That's what I expected to read: you prefer SShinobi 2, that's cool. Faster for sure (as SoR 3, in fact), prettier debatable, imho.

However, I may be old fashoned because I don't really feel faster is always better. Heck, I still manage to enjoy Xevious. As for the labyrinth, you do expect some sweat near the end... I'm more pissed off by the last boss, which I never defeated!

Anyway, probably my comparison is wrong, as I'm fairly confident that SoR 3 managed to disappoint much more people than SShinobi 2.

[azmun]

Anyway, probably my comparison is wrong, as I'm fairly confident that SoR 3 managed to disappoint much more people than SShinobi 2.

I thought the analogy you made was actually appropriate. I liked both Super Shinobi and Super Shinobi II. However, the positive changes made in the sequel (as in BK 2 and 3) were mostly in terms of graphics and gameplay while the music and overall presentation felt nicer in the original.

[zubiac]

The Japanese versions have Vectorman too. SEGA did the lazy thing and just removed games from the US collection rather than replacing them. Very lame.

It was not the "lazy" approach as you might think - it was a calculated business decision.

With the streets of rage games in there, they might have to bump the rating up to T, which would turn off a lot of parents buying the game for young kids.

Yes, I know the reasons why it was removed (I never said I didn't and you know what they say about assuming things...), but I still think it was stupid how they just removed the games without putting any other games in their place. Also, Bonanza Bros is an E rated game and wouldn't have changed the rating, but was still removed. Seriously, it may have been a calculated business decision, but there are plenty of good E rated games on the Genesis that SEGA could have replaced the SoR games with. IMO, removing the games and leaving the US disc with less games than the Japanese version is lazy, calculated business decision or not.

u r right!
Sega are lazy bastards and they completly screwed the european Sega Gems Collection buyers(like me) cause those f#cked up dorks just gave us(euros) the shitty US version.No 60Hz option,the crap US intro song(although the orig. PAL sonic cd had the jap song!)in Sonic CD etc etc.
As soon as Play-asia goes down with the price of the (by far) superior jap version I'm importing it for my beloved cube and burn the PAL disc.
Sega are teh suck nowadays.
"Sonic Riders" my ass.

[Samudra]

Thanks for all the perceptions people!

I'll let time decide on this one.

[Kiken]

Indeed, Sonic Gems Collection actually has an SOR title image and English description (though in noticeably more broken English than the other games' descriptions) for each of the BK games. So you could say Sega did more work removing the ROMs from the discs for the US version.

Here's the odd thing, I was playing the Japanese PS2 version 2 days ago, and went in and switched the browser language on my Japanese PS2 to English (which changes the entire game into English, including swapping the OSTs for Sonic CD) mainly just to mess around.

When I brought up the games menu, all three of the Bare Knuckle games displayed their US SOR title-screens... however, once I selected the game and went in to play, it was still the Japanese version (text, title-screen and all).

Was it ever confirmed that the actual US game ROMs were on the disc?

This might not have been such a problem for the first 2 games, but BK3 was altered heavily for the US market.

[ST Dragon]

SOR2 just had that Final Fight Arcade feel that SOR3 didn't.
I never liked the adventure story-line feel of SOR3 & the pre-render look of the main characters looked a bit blunt, considering that most of the enemies maintained the cartoon/game look of the previous 2 SORs in antithesis to the player’s.

The music of SOR2 was ions ahead of part 3, especially the Boss theme is a true classic.

Gameplay-wise, SOR3 has a slight advantage primarily due to the fact that you can run, but I still prefer SOR2 better.

Overall, SOR2 is the better game in my opinion.

[Fighter17]

The only reason why I refuse to buy Streets of Rage III was the US version of the game was edited. In the Japanese version of the game, there's was a mini-boss in stage one that was remove from the US version of the game. His name was Ash, and he was remove because he was gay. He look gay, I'm not joking, he look really gay. Just download BK III and see for yourself.

[Ganelon]

Was it ever confirmed that the actual US game ROMs were on the disc?

Nope, no US ROMs in the JP SGC. Well, that's excepting Sonic R (which was based on the US PC version), Sonic CD (the same case sans the soundtrack), and the 2 Vectormans (which were never released in Japan in the first place).

As you saw, the text, manuals, and US Sonic CD soundtrack were already on the JP PS2 version (though not JP GC version). The only major difference for the US SGC is the fact that it has all US ROMs (the only real difference can be found in Tails Adventure, which is in English) is that the JP Sonic the Fighters ROM was used rather than the US Sonic Championship ROM. As a result, the title screen keeps the
original JP title and not the US one. However, the movelists added for the
home version have been retained and translated.

There's also a difference between the SGC Sonic the Fighters and the arcade version, which is that Honey's (the hidden female animal who resembles Candy from Fighting Vipers and is only playable via hacking the ROM) in-game model has been removed from the SGC version. This link has more info if you weren't aware already: http://www.sonic-cult.net/dispart.php?c ... =1&artid=6

As for the SOR games and Bonanza Brothers, it's interesting that the US GC version does have the menus hidden away in the code (obviously not unlockable) but the actual ROMs for these 4 games have been removed entirely.

[Samudra]

The only reason why I refuse to buy Streets of Rage III was the US version of the game was edited. In the Japanese version of the game, there's was a mini-boss in stage one that was remove from the US version of the game. His name was Ash, and he was remove because he was gay. He look gay, I'm not joking, he look really gay. Just download BK III and see for yourself.

When I brought up the games menu, all three of the Bare Knuckle games displayed their US SOR title-screens... however, once I selected the game and went in to play, it was still the Japanese version (text, title-screen and all).

Sounds like you are talking about a title screen in a menu before the game is even started. This is quite separate from the ROM of course.

Edit: Addition.

[Ganelon]

Oh, and Ash is still in the US version's code BTW. You can still play as him via a Game Genie.

[FRO]

I'd have to say I'm in agreement w/ the majority here that SOR2 was far superior to SOR3. I remember renting SOR2 & having a blast w/ my younger brother, then renting SOR3 some months later & feeling like it was really rough around the edges, i.e. recycled music, subpar graphics, lame characters - I just didn't see the point.

[Fighter17]

The only reason why I refuse to buy Streets of Rage III was the US version of the game was edited. In the Japanese version of the game, there's was a mini-boss in stage one that was remove from the US version of the game. His name was Ash, and he was remove because he was gay. He look gay, I'm not joking, he look really gay. Just download BK III and see for yourself.

Love beating him up everytime I play BK III!

[Samudra]

Yeah, too bad he is such a wuss (all possible pun intended).

[Kiken]

Yeah, too bad he is such a wuss (all possible pun intended).

However, as a playable character he's stupidly poweful (his grab and slap does nearly a full bar). Even at the harder difficulties, the game really isn't a challenge with him.

[Samudra]

I had no idea. Going to try.