Tropes vs Women in video games

[Edmond Dantes]

What's to explain? We have a culture where people think that all of society will bend to them if they kick and scream loudly enough, and then get pissed off if it doesn't work. And most of the time, they fail to do anything that demonstrates the changes they want would serve anyone other than themselves.

Well that was certainly specific. Is this like when a bunch of straight people demand that marriage should be only for them...?

That's one example.

Another would be "let's black out our webpages to stop SOPA from being passed." Maddox did a writeup about that one.

Or anime fans who started up all their "Otaku Alliances" criticizing bad dubs of their favorite anime (to be fair, almost all of them really were better in Japanese, but they never demonstrated that more than a small handful of people cared).

.... or feminists who want all media to stop "demeaning" women, without clearly and intelligently demonstrating that women are being demeaned at all, and instead come off like they just want women to have better rights than men. Double points if, at any point, they use the phrase "male privileges."

The thing about real life is that rights are not things you simply have, they're always things you have to fight for, and once you have them, fight to defend them. And petulant whining is not fighting.

[louisg]

Or anime fans who started up all their "Otaku Alliances" criticizing bad dubs of their favorite anime (to be fair, almost all of them really were better in Japanese, but they never demonstrated that more than a small handful of people cared).

.... or feminists who want all media to stop "demeaning" women, without clearly and intelligently demonstrating that women are being demeaned at all, and instead come off like they just want women to have better rights than men. Double points if, at any point, they use the phrase "male privileges."

The thing about real life is that rights are not things you simply have, they're always things you have to fight for, and once you have them, fight to defend them. And petulant whining is not fighting.

Well, I don't think you have to go very far to find examples of women being demeaned in the media. But yes, any good argument needs examples, and needs to be coherent.

I don't think there's anything wrong with raising awareness, however that's done. For example, I didn't know about the plight of VFX company Rhythm & Hues (and others) before all of my friends turned their Facebook profiles green. At a glance, it looks like a silly move. But by asking about it, I learned something I had no idea about before.

I'd disagree about rights being not something you should have. I think the point where people are upset is when some people just have rights, and others simply don't have those same rights. A lot of times what may appear at a glance as special treatment is really just being given the respect that everyone else already has. But yes, it has to be fought for, which is unfortunate. If only people would stop being such assholes to each other all the time.

[Sly Cherry Chunks]

And petulant whining is not fighting.

So how did you deal with those bullies, just out of interest. I want to know what you've fought for.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

What really gets on my nerves is men's attitude towards women gamers as a whole, which alternates wildly between "I wish more girls played video games" and "lol, a girl playing video games? get in the kitchen, bitch"

Does the latter attitude seriously happen? I've only seen comments like that as troll comments whenever some butthurt 12 year old gets beat in Call of Duty by someone who happens to be a woman on "Fat, Ugly or Slutty". I know when I was at a gaming con last year, there was a Smash Bros Brawl tourney going on and a Lucario player (that happened to be a girl ) was kicking butt and taking names; nobody cared about her gender whatsoever or made any such comments (even when she was beating everyone soundly).

[Squire Grooktook]

I TEASE ALL MY GAMER FRIENDS WHO PLAY COD FOR BEING CASUALS EQUALLY, MALE OR FEMALE. IT'S ALL IN GOOD FUN THOUGH, I ACTUALLY RESPECT COD AS A COMPETITIVE MULTIPLAYER GAME.

[Edmond Dantes]

And petulant whining is not fighting.

So how did you deal with those bullies, just out of interest. I want to know what you've fought for.

... it occurs to me that answering this question may be a bad idea.

After all, if I told you "well, I shot that guy," I'd be revealing that A) I own a gun and B) that I've used it, both of which are things that I'd be prudent to keep secret if they were true.

Besides, I'm not sure which group of "bullies" you're referring to. Something that came up during a review of that one pony episode? Something I mentioned in my blog? Perhaps you saw me mention something at one of the other forums I've been on? Perhaps you're a mind-reader and you know about guys I've never mentioned?

[Sly Cherry Chunks]

^the ones in pony thread.

[RNGmaster]

As I mentioned before, she's doing it just to satisfy feminazis egos. The problem comes when normal men and women takes her biased and uninformed views seriously.

After whining about how people on the forum hate you, you continue to present your regressive pathetic ideas as if they're undebatable fact. You are hopeless.

[Squire Grooktook]

I'm going to be honest, I don't really see where these claims of sexism and misogyny being so undeniably widespread in video games are coming from.

Now I can't speak for gamers or gamer culture (there's a lot of shit I just don't follow for fear of making my brain melt), but I don't see it in games in general except from stuff that's too stupid to be taken remotely seriously in the first place (GalGun).

I mean, what's so terrible? A few skimpy costumes in a number of already over the top 'CaRAzY' games? A few tired old cliches that are barely even used today except as excuse plots (and even then at least half of them are using 'save the princess' or some shit to draw nostalgia points from old games)? A lack of well written realistic female characters? Well written and realistic characters of any gender aren't really that common in games at all, especially in the type of games people are holding up as examples here.

I just have been raised to see sexism, racism, and any kind of prejudice as SERIOUS FUCKING BUSINESS, the kind of thing you punch a guy in the face over or break up a friendship for. So unless the creator of a work is deliberately and intentionally presenting the theme or message "woman are inferior to men" I prefer to just give them the benefit of the doubt. I just find it disturbing to see accusations of sexism and misogyny thrown around so casually.

I mean help me out here, I haven't played many aaa games in like 6 years now. Has every single one of them I missed been about binding woman up and throwing them in the kitchen?

[Ed Oscuro]

I ACTUALLY RESPECT COD AS A COMPETITIVE MULTIPLAYER GAME.

wait, this can't be a real post

[Squire Grooktook]

Well, let me put it this way.

I think of COD as being the fps equivalent of Marvel Vs Capcom 3: It's not really that good a game, especially compared to the games that came before it in it's genre. Still, it can be played both competitively and casually, so it gets the job done. I think any somewhat competitive multiplayer game can become fun through competition. Even if it's not the best designed thing in the world, the fun of competing with your buddies will make you forget the minor design flaws (this is the only reason why mvc3 has a tourney scene IMO).

Besides, I have a Quake and Unreal playing friend who's way better then me and says cod is legit so I'll take his word for it.

[Bananamatic]

I really wish it could be different, but guys who have grown up with video gaming rather than normal socialization really don't know how to properly treat women. It's either a race to get into their pants or a race to dehumanize them (sometimes both).

the latter is usually acquired because they aren't into the former

[Ed Oscuro]

Besides, I have a Quake and Unreal playing friend who's way better then me and says cod is legit so I'll take his word for it.

You write words of Unreal and Quake to confuse me, only!

[Squire Grooktook]

Besides, I have a Quake and Unreal playing friend who's way better then me and says cod is legit so I'll take his word for it.

You write words of Unreal and Quake to confuse me, only!

It confused me too, I tell ya.

I really wish it could be different, but guys who have grown up with video gaming rather than normal socialization really don't know how to properly treat women. It's either a race to get into their pants or a race to dehumanize them (sometimes both).

That just sounds like deplorable male behavior that's been going on since the dawn of time, rather then something unique to male gamers. As long as men have a sex drive, I'm pretty sure there will always be men like that.

[louisg]

I ACTUALLY RESPECT COD AS A COMPETITIVE MULTIPLAYER GAME.

wait, this can't be a real post

From what I saw, it seemed pretty good. I mean, I haven't played it a ton, so maybe there are a lot of exploits, but it was a lot smarter and more strategic than I thought it'd be.

That just sounds like deplorable male behavior that's been going on since the dawn of time, rather then something unique to male gamers. As long as men have a sex drive, I'm pretty sure there will always be men like that.

Seriously. It's what happens when you're a dumbass who doesn't treat other people well in the first place, and then you let your ballsack do all your thinking for you.

[Edmond Dantes]

^the ones in pony thread.

Those were bullies I dealt with as a kid. I'll admit I used more wusspuppy means back then (trying to tell teachers etc) and that's primarily how I learned such means don't work.

These days, such encounters go very differently.

[evil_ash_xero]

I watched the response video.

I can't believe she actually said that the idea that men are stronger than women(on average), is a myth.
I've known a few butch chicks, but most are definitely weaker than guys. I mean, that's fact.

[system11]

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013- ... otagonists

This example actually is a problem.

[Squire Grooktook]

That's fucking pathetic. Lol that people might actually be homophobic enough that the concept of having a female player character kissing her boyfriend is going to make people feel awkward or question their sexual identity. Or that games with female protagonists aren't as profitable? Fuck man, if you can't relate to a female protagonist how the hell are you going to relate to a real woman at all? Or even just people who are different then you? Or people at all? Fuck...

[Edmond Dantes]

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013- ... otagonists

This example actually is a problem.

Indeed, and shit like that is why I have virtually no respect for the gaming industry. Problems like this are driving gaming into the ground and making it so it appeals only to neanderthals.

I want Alis Landale.

[louisg]

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013- ... otagonists

This example actually is a problem.

That's really sad and fucked up. I wonder if that's part of the reason Beyond Good and Evil tanked. Are the Metroid games one of the only exceptions?

[Squire Grooktook]

I remember when I wanted to get Beyond Good and Evil when I was like 11, and my Mom was all like "Are you sure you don't mind playing as a girl?" and I was like "Uhhh, yeah, why?".

Only reason I stopped playing it was the same reason I stopped playing Okami: Got to a point where I couldn't figure out what to do next. No internet connection back then + ADD = stopped playing. Fuck I should go back and play both games from the beginning when I get time.

[louisg]

I remember when I wanted to get Beyond Good and Evil when I was like 11, and my Mom was all like "Are you sure you don't mind playing as a girl?" and I was like "Uhhh, yeah, why?".

AHHH! Way to make me feel old!

Yeah I'm trying to think back to what my attitude was when I was a kid. I'm *pretty* sure I didn't care. When I was 11, I was probably busy playing C64 Gauntlet as the Valkyrie.

[MOSQUITO FIGHTER]

Donkey Kong: Pauline Edition

[Edmond Dantes]

I never, ever had a problem playing as female characters. Hell, there were a lot of games where I preferred them.

[O. Van Bruce]

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013- ... otagonists

This example actually is a problem.

Such is the videogame industry. I would have liked a game like this, it would have been somewhat refreshing from your usual macho stuff. *sigh*

But in the end, I see no relation bettwen this and an "imposed" male predominance in videogames. This game receives less attention not because "men are stronger and female are weak and need to be objectivized"...

Yeah, in the end the result is what Sarkeesian dennounced but for a complete different reason: companies want to make a profit and a market for a female lead is smaller. Now, we can aim to change the world and make it a better place but videogames aren't exactly the first place you'd want to start with... it's just an entertainment industry and consequentially, it must deliver entertainment. Wether this entertainment is of quality or not, that's another issue.

Hopefully, we'll see in some years a major female gamer comunity and this kind of games will get more attention. I really want it to happen since playing as a female lead is allways interesting.

As I mentioned before, she's doing it just to satisfy feminazis egos. The problem comes when normal men and women takes her biased and uninformed views seriously.

After whining about how people on the forum hate you, you continue to present your regressive pathetic ideas as if they're undebatable fact. You are hopeless.

Then explain, debate, make your point clear. If you are just gonna bash at someones ideas without even explaining why then you are not better than me (at least in your head). I really keep asking myself what I've done to you, because this kind of comments aren't exactly "calm".

[Udderdude]

As I mentioned before, she's doing it just to satisfy feminazis egos. The problem comes when normal men and women takes her biased and uninformed views seriously.

You don't have any clue what a feminazi is, do you? If anything, Tropes Vs Women is so bland as to be boring. It's not saying anything new or radical. It's bog standard analytical feminist stuff.

[O. Van Bruce]

As I mentioned before, she's doing it just to satisfy feminazis egos. The problem comes when normal men and women takes her biased and uninformed views seriously.

You don't have any clue what a feminazi is, do you? If anything, Tropes Vs Women is so bland as to be boring. It's not saying anything new or radical. It's bog standard analytical feminist stuff.

Then what is a feminazi? afaik, any women that wants to step on the rights of men as a kind of vengeance for the segregation women have suffered during history.

[Udderdude]

As I mentioned before, she's doing it just to satisfy feminazis egos. The problem comes when normal men and women takes her biased and uninformed views seriously.

You don't have any clue what a feminazi is, do you? If anything, Tropes Vs Women is so bland as to be boring. It's not saying anything new or radical. It's bog standard analytical feminist stuff.

Then what is a feminazi? afaik, any women that wants to step on the rights of men as a kind of vengeance for the segregation women have suffered during history.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Radfem_Hub
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Andrea_Dworkin
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Female_supremacy

Have fun.

[xgunnBlaze]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6gLmcS3-NI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpFk5F-S_hI
Anita Sarkeesian is not a feminist or a coherent logical thinker of any type; she is a paranoid conspiracy theorist who finds some sort of "objectification" or attack on women in anything she can find, even where the same argument can be made for men using her "logic." Notice that in her "Damsel in Distress" video, she asks developers to make a game with a strong female lead, but in her dissertation, she claimed that strong female characters are only trying to act like males, and she also claims that being strong is only a positive male trait. On top of this, with all of her paranoid babbling, she offers no conclusion to her imaginary problems. What the fuck does she want? Money? It seems so, because she made a ton of money off of her kickstarter and shut the youtube video about it down when she had enough.