Nintendo's newest attempt at stopping game piracy... FAIL.

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Adigun A. Polack
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Nintendo's newest attempt at stopping game piracy... FAIL.

Post by Adigun A. Polack »

This JUST in today, shmuppers: in Nintendo of America’s latest so-called attempt to stop video game ‘piracy’, the company just wants now as rather plain desperate as ever to totally hunt down and block file-sharing websites and willfully bring forth criminal prosecution/penalties against even those who go so far as to facilitate the distribution of their own games online in the slightest (and that includes any emulation as well!)... and to do exactly that, they just wrote a letter to the USTR (United States Trade Representative) in order to actually urge the U.S. Government system through the Special 301 list to finally put pressure on foreign countries to do that extreme crackdown right there. Their Februrary 8, 2013 letter to the USTR is available for you to read right here: http://www.scribd.com/doc/127142545/301 ... -Signature

As you read that entire letter, don’t you just smell that rotten stench of copyright overreach, in that Nintendo literally obsesses itself completely these days on the sheer worry of trying to stop ALL video game piracy as if it were the one and only sole thing it operates upon apparently at all — such of which includes their own little claim/talking point that ‘piracy’ continues to ‘result in lost sales, lost jobs, lost taxes for local, state and national governments, as well as the loss of incentives to create and innovate’... really, what’s their damned deal, huh!? :roll: The reason why I say this quite unapologetically is because I most honestly think they just plain need to fucking stop screwing themselves and especially the customers around with that pathetically stupid ‘if we do not magically destroy all piracy at once, we’re totally fucked’ excuse and really, REALLY start embracing its countless millions of video game fans (including us!!) and open up rather more wholeheartedly in order to help better focus on increasing real-time sales without all the fuss about piracy taking away from them all the time indeed. In other words, Nintendo really needs to improve their own business model all the way to the current cutting-edge times of today instead of that old, dinosaur 20th century (1900-2000) thinking. This is 2013, part of our current, more modern new 21st century... and you know what we say about business models these days... either evolve successfully or perish horribly; there is no in-between. It is that simple. ;)

(I say this with my full-on heart ever-especially, because our own vitally all-important video/arcade game history, heritage, and significance over the many past decades right up to the present day and more, through emulation as one example, *truly* helps and inspires us all to seriously seek out our wondrous curiosities by leading us into seeking out and actually buying the original, OFFICIAL legal copies of the games that we enjoy, or as backups of the games we already own — including the ultra-rare stuff like Naxat Soft’s Recca on Famicom, too!! I am not sure how I am phrasing this, folks, but I am sure you will get the idea. :D !! )

And after Nintendo’s own way of forcefully binding us all up through the region-locking on their 3DS handheld system line since it was first released last year, and also after the way the company implanted the ever-crippled, worthless DRM (or so-called ‘Digital Rights Management’) on their current Wii-U console system line (which you can read all about in this TechDirt article right here, by the way!), and furthermore after their full support of SOPA last year, you can see where this is all going... yet another big-time fail for Nintendo, only this time it will completely backfire on them in their attempt to give the U.S. Government/USTR even greater powers around the world in taking over the internet where video games and emulation are concerned. They catastrophically blew it this time with their latest attempt now, I heavily predict.

By the way, in case any of you are wondering what that Special 301 list is about, you can read more info about it in this other TechDirt article right here, especially in order to find out why that report that the USTR puts out every year becomes more of a catastrophic joke indeed when it comes to copyright enforcement, being the draconian maximalists that they are to begin with along with those Hollywood lobbyists they support, too.

With all of that, please speak your thoughts on this latest new issue that is well-fitting for this “Off-Topic” category of our Shmups forumboard. Thanks so much for your input in advance. 8)
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Re: Nintendo's newest attempt at stopping game piracy... FAI

Post by brentsg »

The whole Special 301 list thing aside, Nintendo wants to protect its intellectual property. That's how it should be and though I've only skimmed their letter, it seems like a pretty good read to me.

I'm not sure if you're all worked up because of the emulation issue or what. Sure, there are a lot of games that wouldn't be playable without emulation. In that regard it's great. However, Nintendo is one of the companies that is continually able to generate revenue from their old games via ports, new versions, Virtual Console, etc. So is it so hard to understand that they'd rather NOT have people playing this content on their hacked PSP?

It seems that the letter is a well written response to a request for information.
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Re: Nintendo's newest attempt at stopping game piracy... FAI

Post by Vexorg »

Cool story bro.
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Re: Nintendo's newest attempt at stopping game piracy... FAI

Post by BryanM »

Profits in their market are down, down, down. Whether it's oversaturation, mobile phones, recession, whatever, it's on the decline and it's panic time.

They're at least doing way better than the music industry..

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Still man, $26 per person is still a hella lot in the grand scheme of things.
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Re: Nintendo's newest attempt at stopping game piracy... FAI

Post by trap15 »

Vexorg wrote:Cool story bro.
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Re: Nintendo's newest attempt at stopping game piracy... FAI

Post by null1024 »

Nintendo would be one to worry. I don't know anyone with a DS without a flashcard, or a Wii that isn't hacked.

...on the other hand, most of them did buy Pokemon B2/W2 and then a bunch of 3DS games, and their Wii is mostly used as a Gamecube...
But my top point stands, Nintendo should be worried.


Their appeal to the 301 list is cute and stupid, and I feel like whoever wrote that letter knows that China isn't going to clamp hard on piracy anytime soon. And they identify the underlying problems with buying legally in somewhere like Brazil, and promptly ignore them in its suggestions to deal with piracy there [I can't expect gamers to not pirate if the system [and almost certainly games] cost 3x as much in Brazil as it does in the US].


Also, Nintendo's insistence on being stupid when it comes to accounts will just mean that people will go towards their competitors, having realized how dumb it was on the Wii [and so legit customers suffer for no good reason, when your competitors allow gamers to play downloaded games on a different system than the one downloaded, and the pirates will just download the .WAD for the game anyway].

I like Nintendo [good games, you buy their systems because you like their first party efforts], but they are going about things the wrong way.
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Re: Nintendo's newest attempt at stopping game piracy... FAI

Post by system11 »

I don't want to pay for products = piracy is not the issue and companies need to get with the times.

Which presumably is allowing you to take what you want for free, despite not being entitled to it, while legitimate customers pick up the tab.

I think I have that covered - early candidate for dumb post of the year 2013.
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Re: Nintendo's newest attempt at stopping game piracy... FAI

Post by Drum »

Nintendo doesn't want people pirating their games and this is bad because ... why? I didn't see any actual arguments in that screed.
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Re: Nintendo's newest attempt at stopping game piracy... FAI

Post by Ganelon »

Nintendo doesn't owe gamers anything. If the company is finding itself in a bad situation and wants to cut back on some piracy before it rolls out Virtual Console on Wii U and before its system gets hacked, then I think that makes sense. Yeah, it's not following the same precedent as, say, Capcom—which knowingly turns a blind eye to emulation—but it's well within legal and moral authority.

I'm with everyone else that the list is silly and that it'd be great for Nintendo's region locks to get cracked but those are separate issues from wanting to stop illegal distribution of your intellectual property. If anything, the lax historical attitude on emulation combined with this topic is a perfect example that if you don't defend your copyrights, then others will start taking them for granted.
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Re: Nintendo's newest attempt at stopping game piracy... FAI

Post by Ed Oscuro »

Well, there certainly is some funny business over Nintendo's causing emulation-related sites trouble over games which aren't Nintendo's own property (i.e. the long-time bans on many sites against even discussing SNES emulation for this purpose). But that chilling effect is an old story.
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Re: Nintendo's newest attempt at stopping game piracy... FAI

Post by neorichieb1971 »

Nintendo launched one too many consoles without asking their fans what they wanted. Or, Nintendo did ask them what they wanted, hit wide of the mark completely and are now paying the price.

Nintendo are weak now. Sony could just do the Dreamcast trick (and mean it this time) and just take them out.

I know a few Nintendo fans. They pirate everything. Therefore the company should cease to exist as a console manufacturer. Go the way of Sega, and make only games.
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Re: Nintendo's newest attempt at stopping game piracy... FAI

Post by louisg »

My 2 cents is that I didn't see anything too wrong with the article, though flash carts do have a small share of legitimate uses. Though I could understand wanting those off the market for current systems, I hope they remain available and easy to order for no-longer-supported systems.
neorichieb1971 wrote:I know a few Nintendo fans. They pirate everything. Therefore the company should cease to exist as a console manufacturer. Go the way of Sega, and make only games.
I don't think that did Sega any favors as far as their game quality goes. They were doing most of their best stuff when it was sink-or-swim for their console. FWIW, no Nintendo fan I know is big on piracy.
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Re: Nintendo's newest attempt at stopping game piracy... FAI

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neorichieb1971 wrote:Nintendo launched one too many consoles without asking their fans what they wanted. Or, Nintendo did ask them what they wanted, hit wide of the mark completely and are now paying the price.

Nintendo are weak now. Sony could just do the Dreamcast trick (and mean it this time) and just take them out.

I know a few Nintendo fans. They pirate everything. Therefore the company should cease to exist as a console manufacturer. Go the way of Sega, and make only games.
In what world is Sony strong? Sony is floundering on every front and just held a media event that revealed nothing.

But sure if your friends are pirating their games I guess it's time for them to give it up.
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Re: Nintendo's newest attempt at stopping game piracy... FAI

Post by Mortificator »

Drum wrote:Nintendo doesn't want people pirating their games
You know, the Nintendo stakeholders behind this letter had absolutely no part in making any of those games.
brentsg wrote:Nintendo is one of the companies that is continually able to generate revenue from their old games via ports, new versions, Virtual Console, etc. So is it so hard to understand that they'd rather NOT have people playing this content on their hacked PSP?
It's not hard to understand why these individuals want money. What's hard to justify is why they deserve it.
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Re: Nintendo's newest attempt at stopping game piracy... FAI

Post by neorichieb1971 »

I personally want to see NCL succeed. But I ain't buying one of their door stoppers to get them out of trouble.

Why release consoles with no games? Or no worthy games.

As for Sony, yes they are floundering, but they are potentially on the right footing. Although their PS4 model reveals nothing a lot of PC folks are already talking of buying into their wet dream that is PS4. The thing with being technically most advanced is that you get a lot of people buy your console. You can scrape by with one or two 9/10's to start with. But with Nintendo, nobody is wow'd by their offerings and the consoles stay on shelves. Now they have 8 billion wii's in the world that they barely support and 200,000 wii U's that they fully support.

Nintendo put too much money where nobody but them wanted it. And not enough money where people wanted it.

Nintendo need a "back to basics" plan.

This piracy thing screams "desperate" on sorts of levels.
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Re: Nintendo's newest attempt at stopping game piracy... FAI

Post by Ed Oscuro »

I know it's topically irrelevant, but if you really want to be disgusted, read up on the Aliens: Colonial Marines fiasco. Now THERE is a modern-day fiasco to get mad about.

But yeah, I can agree that there is a case against being able to flog the same old materials forever. At some point you should cease to get revenue. But should it be different for games? Remember that even "very old" games are just from the era of our youth, whereas there's old Disney films just now coming out of copyright. I suppose people complained about that too.

However I don't agree with richie that, as neorichie states, what other people do should determine your fate as a manufacturer. So what if everybody you know is a pirate, richie? It's not like Nintendo has released nothing at all the last few years. Pirates can't keep up.
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Re: Nintendo's newest attempt at stopping game piracy... FAI

Post by Drum »

Mortificator wrote:
Drum wrote:Nintendo doesn't want people pirating their games
You know, the Nintendo stakeholders behind this letter had absolutely no part in making any of those games.
brentsg wrote:Nintendo is one of the companies that is continually able to generate revenue from their old games via ports, new versions, Virtual Console, etc. So is it so hard to understand that they'd rather NOT have people playing this content on their hacked PSP?
It's not hard to understand why these individuals want money. What's hard to justify is why they deserve it.
Are stakeholders the sole beneficiaries of software sales?
Do pirates deserve free games?
Your thinking is shallow, inept and easily taken apart. Don't bother replying to this post.
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Re: Nintendo's newest attempt at stopping game piracy... FAI

Post by louisg »

As a fairly tech-savvy crowd, we're going to know more pirates than the average person. That's kind of a given. You hang around an enthusiast scene long enough and you'd think everyone has a chipped console.
Ed Oscuro wrote:I know it's topically irrelevant, but if you really want to be disgusted, read up on the Aliens: Colonial Marines fiasco. Now THERE is a modern-day fiasco to get mad about.
Yeah.. pretty sad :/ And, staying semi-on-topic, it's also a reminder of how Sega has become just another generic publishing house :)
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Re: Nintendo's newest attempt at stopping game piracy... FAI

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Ed Oscuro wrote:I know it's topically irrelevant, but if you really want to be disgusted, read up on the Aliens: Colonial Marines fiasco. Now THERE is a modern-day fiasco to get mad about.

But yeah, I can agree that there is a case against being able to flog the same old materials forever. At some point you should cease to get revenue. But should it be different for games? Remember that even "very old" games are just from the era of our youth, whereas there's old Disney films just now coming out of copyright. I suppose people complained about that too.

However I don't agree with richie that, as neorichie states, what other people do should determine your fate as a manufacturer. So what if everybody you know is a pirate, richie? It's not like Nintendo has released nothing at all the last few years. Pirates can't keep up.
Nintendo has the lowest turnover rate in the industry, and one of the lowest in any creative industry. The people who made Ice Climber and Balloon Fight are still there. I feel a lot more comfortable paying for Nintendo VC games than any other retro rom dump.
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Re: Nintendo's newest attempt at stopping game piracy... FAI

Post by louisg »

Drum wrote: Nintendo has the lowest turnover rate in the industry, and one of the lowest in any creative industry. The people who made Ice Climber and Balloon Fight are still there. I feel a lot more comfortable paying for Nintendo VC games than any other retro rom dump.
We were looking for someone to boost Nintendo when there are console wars on this board. Where the hell were you in the PS4 thread? ;)

But seriously...
Drum wrote:Your thinking is shallow, inept and easily taken apart
You can be right without being a dick. I thought this was pretty uncalled for.
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Re: Nintendo's newest attempt at stopping game piracy... FAI

Post by neorichieb1971 »

Has the neo geo fast striker cart protection been broken yet? Because that is a simple case of someone doing something right (if not broken) whilst playmore did nothing to protect their IP's.

Nintendo are in the same boat. They complain about old stuff and yet their current stuff is equally as shared.

I don't do any piracy on games. But what I can tell you is that I hardly buy anything new at all. God is the industry stale. Or perhaps i'm just not open minded to look for games that don't reach my intrigue levels at first glance.
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Re: Nintendo's newest attempt at stopping game piracy... FAI

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louisg wrote:
Drum wrote: Nintendo has the lowest turnover rate in the industry, and one of the lowest in any creative industry. The people who made Ice Climber and Balloon Fight are still there. I feel a lot more comfortable paying for Nintendo VC games than any other retro rom dump.
We were looking for someone to boost Nintendo when there are console wars on this board. Where the hell were you in the PS4 thread? ;)
Hey now, just dropping some relevant facts.
But seriously...
Drum wrote:Your thinking is shallow, inept and easily taken apart
You can be right without being a dick. I thought this was pretty uncalled for.
No patience for oily, dishonest nonsense like that. He might as well have crept up behind me and licked my neck. I think it's fair to get pissed at people who trade in that stuff.
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Re: Nintendo's newest attempt at stopping game piracy... FAI

Post by Friendly »

What is this thread about? I tried to read/comprehend the OP but I don't quite get it.

Shouldn't companies try to protect their intellectual property? Of course that doesn't mean that consumers should tolerate bullshit like region-lockouts and restrictive DRM, or that they should not have the right to resell digital content; but that's another topic.

Yes, current US-influenced international copyright law is screwed up (scope and term of protection).

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_ ... ension_Act
Mary Bono wrote:Actually, Sonny wanted the term of copyright protection to last forever. I am informed by staff that such a change would violate the Constitution. ... As you know, there is also [then-MPAA president] Jack Valenti's proposal for term to last forever less one day. Perhaps the Committee may look at that next Congress
Around 30 years as it was in the early 1800s sounds pretty damn reasonable to me.
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Re: Nintendo's newest attempt at stopping game piracy... FAI

Post by Obiwanshinobi »

null1024 wrote:[good games, you buy their systems because you like their first party efforts]
Do you? Trying to think of any first party games I bought GBA and Wii for... Metroid Prime comes to mind and that's it (GBA Metroids too alright). Having said that, their GB(C) games alone make GBA worth keeping. Also, Panel de Pon "demake".
In hindsight, I bought both late in the day with nice fat affordable games libraries in mind. Oh I wanted 'Cube back when, but PS2 slim won favour with me, and rightfully so.
I don't think it's a coincidence that the only two 3DS games I want aren't developed by Nintendo either: Shin MegaTen IV (Atlus) and Pilotwings Resort (guess who).

The question is, what do you lads truly WANT Nintendo to do.
I for one want a DS with really real backwards compatibility (right back to GB, no feature omitted) and possibility to play homebrew on it. DS Advance so to speak. Instead, they came up with Wii Deranged. The message I read is: Nintendo have no interest in pleasing late buyers. Who do they wanna please, then? Brand loyalists? Sega already ate it and made some games I care to play.
neorichieb1971 wrote:I don't do any piracy on games.
I don't pirate live-action porn. Well, downloaded Chapaev "remake" by accident.
As for games piracy, I think healthy compromise would be if copyright owners let it go after 20 years.
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Re: Nintendo's newest attempt at stopping game piracy... FAI

Post by tinotormed »

Adigun A. Polack wrote: As you read that entire letter, don’t you just smell that rotten stench of copyright overreach, in that Nintendo literally obsesses itself completely these days on the sheer worry of trying to stop ALL video game piracy as if it were the one and only sole thing it operates upon apparently at all — such of which includes their own little claim/talking point that ‘piracy’ continues to ‘result in lost sales, lost jobs, lost taxes for local, state and national governments, as well as the loss of incentives to create and innovate’... really, what’s their damned deal, huh!? :roll: The reason why I say this quite unapologetically is because I most honestly think they just plain need to fucking stop screwing themselves and especially the customers around with that pathetically stupid ‘if we do not magically destroy all piracy at once, we’re totally fucked’ excuse and really, REALLY start embracing its countless millions of video game fans (including us!!) and open up rather more wholeheartedly in order to help better focus on increasing real-time sales without all the fuss about piracy taking away from them all the time indeed. In other words, Nintendo really needs to improve their own business model all the way to the current cutting-edge times of today instead of that old, dinosaur 20th century (1900-2000) thinking. This is 2013, part of our current, more modern new 21st century... and you know what we say about business models these days... either evolve successfully or perish horribly; there is no in-between. It is that simple. ;)
I agree with that because even I am not from the US but in the Philippines, showing the fact that we lost our freedom to bring video games and movies with us to abroad! >:(
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Re: Nintendo's newest attempt at stopping game piracy... FAI

Post by Astraea FGA Mk. I »

The best way to stop piracy is to make going the legit route a superior and more appealing experience. Example, Steam.
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Re: Nintendo's newest attempt at stopping game piracy... FAI

Post by Mortificator »

Drum wrote:Your thinking is shallow, inept and easily taken apart.
You might notice that thinking is shared by the majority of literature, music, film and TV creators. Can you explain to me why people working in those fields deserve royalties and residuals while people who work on video games don't?
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Re: Nintendo's newest attempt at stopping game piracy... FAI

Post by Udderdude »

Wii U was a major flop so Nintendo is trying to crack down on piracy to save on money. Nothing surprising here.

It would be interesting if they try a different distribution method, but I don't see that happening any time soon.
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Re: Nintendo's newest attempt at stopping game piracy... FAI

Post by Ed Oscuro »

I really don't understand what Mortificator and Drum are arguing about
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Re: Nintendo's newest attempt at stopping game piracy... FAI

Post by TransatlanticFoe »

I have no problem with a company enforcing its earnings for currently manufactured games. In fact I despise the "something for nothing" culture that claims games, DVDs and CDs are too expensive when, in reality, they are as cheap as they've ever been if not cheaper. As though being poor or tight or "because it is there for free" is some kind of valid reason.

On games, there is a total failure to market past-gen games. If Nintendo, or anyone else, want to eradicate ROM/iso piracy for older consoles then they absolutely must provide a solid way of re-releasing those games. Be in an emulator on disk with ROMs or an online shop. Virtual Console fails because it carries a very narrow spectrum of potentially available games plus it adds in restrictive DRM. I appreciate that there are also often licensing issues, in which case either re-license for retailing or accept the income from the original license and let it stay out there.

If any company wants to get on their high horse about emulation then they have to provide a sensible legal route for it. Sell us the ROMs, but don't slap DRM on it (this includes releasing through the likes of Steam). People who want to pay will pay. For crying out loud, let them.

Piracy is popular partly because it is easy and cheap, but partly because it is the only way to play some games short of the (often vastly overpriced) second hand market. The same can be said of film/TV shows which never receive a DVD release or the run is out of print, or CDs/LPs which are out of print. Technically you're infringing copyright by downloading them for free but equally they are not available to buy and thus no-one is losing out from it. If you've decided it's not economically viable to release/re-print/sell on, then don't stamp your feet and demand that no-one gets it for free.

Perhaps the answer is to overhaul copyright law for gaming, which is an inherently restrictively short-term medium compared to music and video. Have an expiry date of X time after manufacturing ceases of the host console (or for PC, a playable operating system), after which point it's public domain unless you re-register the copyright for re-issue on another platform?
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