I'm ready to try a Bullet Hell shooter

[RNGmaster]

Easy mode scoring is just as hard as scoring on any other mode, and that's what seppo's trying to say. Most of the difficulty is in scoring, after all.

[chum]

OP watch videos and make ur own judgement? Danmaku is pretty broad

Squire Grooktook plz

[Hagane]

Easy mode scoring is just as hard as scoring on any other mode, and that's what seppo's trying to say. Most of the difficulty is in scoring, after all.

Easy scoring is as hard as Lunatic scoring?

[Squire Grooktook]

I'm not saying that scoring isn't as hard, I'm saying that the games in general is just not nearly as much fun on lower difficulties IMO. I'm sure it's fun going for really high scores on easy after you learn the game, but that takes time. So I'd say if you're just starting out and don't wanna be bored to tears on your first few play sessions, start out on normal or hard, then pick whatever for scoring and mastering the game once you decide you like it enough to spend some time with it.

[KAI]

[chum]

Your pictures aren't funny. If anyone tells you they are then they're probably just trying to be nice just saying

[EmperorIng]

Based on the consoles you own, there aren't a whole lot of "bullet hell" offerings.

The closest you'd get are some heftily-priced Saturn ports of Batsugun, DonPachi, and DoDonPachi, and considering the money spent, you are better off emulating them in MAME.

Gunbird, if you consider early Psikyo "bullet hell" is a cheap shooter on the Saturn. Primitive, but fun. However, that too is easily emulated on MAME.

As for jumping in to the genre, I'd go with:

-Gunbird 2:
Simple, with no frills or over-complicated scoring systems - it's shoot and survive the whole way through, with the added challenge of coin collection and secret bonus points after you've mastered staying alive.

-Dragon Blaze
Much more complicated than Gunbird, but the technical skill to get really good at the game is tempered by intuitive (not to mention brute strength) of its primary gimmick, the Dragon Shot. Very difficult, but very fun.

-ESPGaluda:
Its gimmick, where you slow down time and thus bullet patterns, offers a good chance to become acclimated to bullet hell, and Cave games in particular. It's very beginner friendly (but not necessarily easy!).

-Armed Police Batrider
Bullet hell? Perhaps, but this is a much more friendlier and livelier Battle Garegga, that plays like a cross between a Toaplan shooter and a more danmaku-focused game. Great fun.

-Batsugun
Also very simple and old-school, and lots of fun. Toaplan at its finest.

-DoDonPachi
Ignore chaining, because it's dumb. Play the game and enjoy the great levels and bullet patterns.

[Obscura]

-Armed Police Batrider
Bullet hell? Perhaps, but this is a much more friendlier and livelier Battle Garegga,

Only on Normal Course. Batrider Advanced Course's rank is a real ass, and much harder to manage than Garegga's rank.

[EmperorIng]

You may very well be right, as Garegga's rank is utterly mystifying to me, and I am not very familiar with Bakraid's ins and outs since I've only played for fun and not for score. But in that regard, it's a blast.

[Seppo Hovi]

Hell, Normal mode for most of the franchise is easy enough that most players who are not new to shmups should be able to 1cc it on their first play session.

And earlier you stated that SA and UFO have checkpoint systems. Are you sure that you know what the concept of 1cc is? For the record, I started out with clearing all of the games on Normal mode and it took me a while to do, giving well enough challenge.

Also my experience is that most of the players who use easy aren't really playing it for the game part. The only two people I know who use easy mode, do not play shmups (one of them even admits to detesting shmups in general), do not play Touhou at all consistently, and pretty much admit they are only there for the music and annie-may gurlz.

For some obscure reason, there are scoreboards for easy mode as well. At times, being childish, liking good music and watching anime is not a bad thing in my books, though, as long as it doesn't fill the entirety of one's vision.

Easy scoring is as hard as Lunatic scoring?

It depends on how high the goal is, as it always does with scoring. The routes for Easy are usually far more optimal than Lunatic ones, so the initial routes and tricks might be harder, or more common. For Lunatic, you'll be spending more time on forcing yourself into consistency on patterns that require some reading. Obviously, if a given pattern is too hard, and your route allows it, you can bomb it to abyss.

[Squire Grooktook]

And earlier you stated that SA and UFO have checkpoint systems. Are you sure that you know what the concept of 1cc is? For the record, I started out with clearing all of the games on Normal mode and it took me a while to do, giving well enough challenge.

Okay, I kinda didn't quite express myself correctly there. What I meant is that the way that losing a credit forces you to retry the level you were on when you died, in some ways feels more reminiscent of check point based shmups the first time you play it. With the slightly increased difficulty of SA, I found myself replaying the same level quite a few times in a row before I mastered it, and my first play session of the game felt more or less like a check point based game.

Of course AFTER I finished it, and learned the patterns, I was then able to go back and 1cc it, thus not making use of that.

YEAH I MESSED UP YOU GOT ME BLUSHING FROM EMBARRASSMENT OKAY

For some obscure reason, there are scoreboards for easy mode as well. At times, being childish, liking good music and watching anime is not a bad thing in my books, though, as long as it doesn't fill the entirety of one's vision.

Yeah I know, I'm not saying playing for score on easy is invalid, I just think it's a bad way to start the game because it will just feel slow and unfun on your first few play sessions, and leave a bad impression. Once you get good at scoring, of course it'll be more fun, but we're talking about games that are fun to get into with bullet hell, and I think a good first impression is a must. Like I said, personally for Touhou I would start out the game on normal or hard, learn it, beat it, then consider what difficulty you try and high score on.

And also don't think that I don't like these two friends of mine. I do like them. And I talk with them all the time (well one of them, the other is kinda slowly disappearing off the internet. I think he plays LoL a lot but always sets his status to offline while he's doing it lol).

[Illyrian]

I think you are wrong.

Personally, my first experience I enjoyed in this genre was touhou on easy, as it felt like I could actually dodge some patterns and clear some games, back when I couldn't clear any others.

It was a great first step for me to other games.

The amount of snobbery coming out here in a thread about starting off in the genre is quite remarkable.

[Drachenherz]

I think you are wrong.

Personally, my first experience I enjoyed in this genre was touhou on easy, as it felt like I could actually dodge some patterns and clear some games, back when I couldn't clear any others.

It was a great first step for me to other games.

The amount of snobbery coming out here in a thread about starting off in the genre is quite remarkable.

Wellcome to shmupsforum!

[kamiboy]

May as well ask for posterity. What home version of Don Pachi/Do Don Pachi is considered the one to get?

[EmperorIng]

People say the Saturn version of DoDonPachi has "pixellated explosions," but I can't imagine that being too big a deal. I think being able to fight the secret last boss, Hibachi, without fulfilling the game's usual loop requirements would be a plus. The two ports are probably equal in most other regards.

[O. Van Bruce]

How about Crimzon Clover for a starter?! I'd think that is above the average difficulty of a Touhou and it's very atractive to the eye. It's also easy to know where you die and the bomb, break and double break are good ways of getting out of trouble. The game makes you score at least a little if you want to 1cc it.

[Drachenherz]

Hmm, come to think of it, yes, Crimzon Clover would really be a good starting point too.

[Nasirosuchus]

If you're new to bullet hells, I'd recommend
Blue Wish Resurrection Plus
Mushihime-sama Futari Black Label
Perfect Cherry Blossom

[Kollision]

May as well ask for posterity. What home version of Don Pachi/Do Don Pachi is considered the one to get?

Playing seriously (w/ chaining)?

DonPachi - PS1
DoDonPachi - Saturn

If you don't give a shit about chaining go for PS1 on both.

[Squire Grooktook]

I think you are wrong.

Personally, my first experience I enjoyed in this genre was touhou on easy, as it felt like I could actually dodge some patterns and clear some games, back when I couldn't clear any others.

It was a great first step for me to other games.

I'm not trying to act like I'm a better player, I wouldn't be surprised if you're a much better player then me. IMO I just don't find playing on easier difficulties fun, in any game really. I like to struggle and really be motivated to improve when I first get into a game, not be coddled and eased in.

To each his own I guess.

[kamiboy]

DonPachi - PS1
DoDonPachi - Saturn

If you don't give a shit about chaining go for PS1 on both.

PS1 it is then. My collector senses tell me either version prolly come at a high cost.

[EmperorIng]

I've sometimes seen DonPachi for the Saturn go for $30, and that's probably as much as I'd be willing to spend on DonPachi. DoDonPachi (again, saturn) usually goes for about $45-55, which I think is more or less fair. I wouldn't go into the $60 range.

[Deca]

Kinda not off to a great start on the forums Squire, just sayin.

I think a good first impression is a must.

I'm not writing you off yet but you may wanna slow your roll a bit.



Regarding DoDonPachi, mame is really the only way to play properly. Both ports have their own weird flaws. If you absolutely must play one go with Saturn, but bear in mind it runs noticeably faster than the original game and is a bit more difficult as a result.

[Squire Grooktook]

Kinda not off to a great start on the forums Squire, just sayin.

:( I'm sorry

I'm sorry if I said anything ignorant, I tend not to take forum convo's too seriously, and just let my mouth/keyboard run off when I feel like talking about something. But I'm also able to admit when I'm wrong, so I'm again sorry if I disparaged anyone else's playing habits.

I assure you, if I sound elitist, it's just to cover up my own cripplingly low self esteem.

[Farian303]

Espgaluda (PS2) would be the best pick, but the fact that you cannot play imports on your PS2 makes it difficult..

Sell some games/consoles you are not playing, use the money to get yourself a cheap second hand x360 from a pawnshop , and buy:

*DoDonPachi Resurrection
*Futari 1.5
*Espgaluda 2
(Deathsmiles and Akai Katana if you wanna try some Horizontal bullet hell shmups)

All 3 of these titles are very affordable..

[Edmond Dantes]

Okay, so last night I MAME'd Donpachi (I like to play series in order when I can)

At first I thought it was a joke. I got past the first stage without dying... on my first try. So I was like "Come on, game, Raiden Project was more demanding than this!"

And then the game said "Oh, you want the pain, huh?" It put on its BDSM outfit and brought in a whip and ball gag and made me squeal like a pig.

Next month I've promised a dude I'm gonna buy his X-Multiply PCB from him, but anytime after that though... *eyeballs Donpachi, DoDonPachi, and Shikigami no Shiro*

[null1024]

Okay, so last night I MAME'd Donpachi (I like to play series in order when I can)

At first I thought it was a joke. I got past the first stage without dying... on my first try. So I was like "Come on, game, Raiden Project was more demanding than this!"

And then the game said "Oh, you want the pain, huh?" It put on its BDSM outfit and brought in a whip and ball gag and made me squeal like a pig.

Next month I've promised a dude I'm gonna buy his X-Multiply PCB from him, but anytime after that though... *eyeballs Donpachi, DoDonPachi, and Shikigami no Shiro*

Cave games tend to have a piss-easy first stage, and a rather easy second [where dying becomes a little likely]. By stage 3 they'll try to kick ordinary people [those that don't play many shmups] off the machine and spike the difficulty.

Also, Donpachi does a few things that later Cave games and most danmaku in general don't, notably it still has that old-school thing where enemies will try to ram you from the back. Delightfully tricky.

Playing in order will probably give you a much better impression of the games: one can make the case that DP -> DDP -> DOJ[BL] is just the previous game on steroids as DDP brought bigger lasers, made chaining noticably heavier, upped the bullet count dramatically [whether it's harder, I dunno, I have more trouble with DP than DDP]. DOJ brings hypers, even more bullets, a heavier soundtrack, and an even greater chaining focus, as well as being much harder.

and then I've never played DFK or SDOJ ;___;

[BareKnuckleRoo]

notably it still has that old-school thing where enemies will try to ram you from the back. Delightfully tricky.

The only real spots to worry about this are some of the green popcorn at the start of stage 4, and during stage 5 there's a couple segments where enemies show up. Other than that it's not a problem compared to other older shmups. It's a very forgiving Cave game even with the larger hitbox (than DDP) because of how your bombs recharge at the end of the level (x = level number in Japan, full recharge in US).

DFK's got one of the biggest difficulty spikes in the series I think. Pretty accessible stages for beginners thanks to hypers and bombs (assuming you're not going for the loop, including Ura and its strict entry requirements), but then you reach Stage 5, which is an enormous pain in the ass. The main challenge comes from the laser wheels, which are incredibly demanding to get through, and require quite a bit more precision and memorization than comparable Cave stage 5s (DDP's final two levels are much easier, as is Mushi/Futari Orig 5, Espgaluda 5-1 & 5-2, etc). You have to seriously practice that stage to remember where you need to be when each laser wheel appears.

[Edmond Dantes]

Also, Donpachi does a few things that later Cave games and most danmaku in general don't, notably it still has that old-school thing where enemies will try to ram you from the back. Delightfully tricky.

I call that "taking it up the ass."

I've been playing Raiden Project lately, so I'm used to taking it.

[Nasirosuchus]

Dodonpachi?
Ibara?
Gunbird 2?
Armed Police Batrider?

These are all great games, but they shouldn't be suggested for someone who's new to the genre unless you want them to go screaming for the hills never to be seen or heard from again.