XRGB-mini Framemeister

[Konsolkongen]

Everything will work with a switch on the cable/box When the switch is in "TV" position the Dreamcast will output 15kHz (240p/480i) and when it's in "PC" mode the DC will output in 31kHz (VGA).

So you don't have to worry, you get 100% compatibility. You just won't be able to leave the switch in PC mode for those games that don't support VGA.

[fAbZ]

Hello,

I'm searching to have a great upscaling for Euro PS2 and PS1. I have a great PC monitor that will do the trick : Eizo FS2332. (Great in 50Hertz, low input-lag, instead of finding a TV Alpha panel)
For the PS1, i have RGB cable, and PS2 : Officiel Component PS3 Cable.
Does the XRGB-mini will work with this configuration ? No more modding ?

Thanks for your help !

(French user ^^)

[crmb]

220 works best overall for most arcade boards. You will still have a little too bright of an image using 220 ohm resistors with the CPS-2. To fine tune the strength of the signal, adjust the A/D Level setting in the "Special" menu on the XRGB-mini. Lowering the A/D level value has the effect of increasing resistance to the signal (gets darker). For CPS-2 with 220 ohm the A/D level I use is around 115 (default value is 128).

160 ohms is what I used with my PVM-2030 since it displays darker than it should. So, using the lower value compensates for the lack of brightness - until the PVM warms up after an hour.

I have done my custom mini-din cable with 221r for RGB and this is perfect.
The only tweak needed in the settings is for the (too bright) black level. Don't know if higher ohms would help to lower the black level to pure black.
(the AD settings doesnt seems to lower the black level. Or maybe this is an PC/TV range story (16-235 etc..))

[Fudoh]

Or maybe this is an PC/TV range story (16-235 etc..))

most likely.

[Konsolkongen]

If the TV is 16-235 and the Framemeister is 0-255 wouldn't the picture be too dark instead? You know, like it was on my Panasonic ST50.

To me it sounds like the TV is full range and the Framemeister is outputting limited range. Try setting the Framemeister to RGB colorspace instead and see if that helps.

[crmb]

If the TV is 16-235 and the Framemeister is 0-255 wouldn't the picture be too dark instead? You know, like it was on my Panasonic ST50.

To me it sounds like the TV is full range and the Framemeister is outputting limited range. Try setting the Framemeister to RGB colorspace instead and see if that helps.

Thank you for the tip.
I tryed RGB instead of AUTO. But no change. (Same thing with MVS too)
But i wont complain too much, just lower the brightness (from 25 to 12) works OK.

Yes i think my dedicated monitor is only full range (Eizo EV2436W). Will try with my more "multimedia" FS2333 later.

Now i am having issue with scanlines. I switched to hdmi/720p mode (and put monitor to 1:1) to be sure but even here there is a few glitches



one at top, one at center, one at bottom

In 1080p they are a complete mess

[Smashbro29]

Everything will work with a switch on the cable/box When the switch is in "TV" position the Dreamcast will output 15kHz (240p/480i) and when it's in "PC" mode the DC will output in 31kHz (VGA).

So you don't have to worry, you get 100% compatibility. You just won't be able to leave the switch in PC mode for those games that don't support VGA.

We are in business. Who makes these magical devices that do it all in one Scart cable?

[Fudoh]

@crmb: looks like http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... 51#p789851

Should be fixed by now. If not, use image zoom/center options and try to move or zoom the image by a single step and back afterwards.

[crmb]

Thank you. V_WIDTH at 33 do the trick. I hope they will add a scanline height setting for 1080p and 1280x960

Because 720p on 16:10 monitor = letterboxed or stretched. (if i try to correct the AR with H_WIDTH, the picture sides are cropped by the mini)

[Fudoh]

Because 720p on 16:10 monitor = letterboxed or stretched

if your monitor has a 4:3 mode, then you can feed 1280x720, let the Mini stretch to 16:9 and let the monitor resize to 4:3...

[crmb]

Nope no 4:3 mode on my monitor
I noticed the "Normal 2" mode may help me. Because it make the picture larger

edit : in a 16:9 ouput resolution (for ex. 720p) using 4:3 material, "normal 2" make the 4:3 viewport become 1.5:1 (slightly stretched)
Then, if my monitor stretch the picture from 16:9 to 16:10, it become ~1.35:1

Now i can reduce just a bit the H_WIDTH and get 1.33 !

[Fudoh]

Normal2 acts differently for different sources. It respects the actual pixel ratio if it's wider than 4:3.

[BuckoA51]

Does the XRGB-mini will work with this configuration ? No more modding ?

With caveats, you can only use scanlines on PAL 288p games when the mini is set to 576p output.

[Thomago]

I'm searching to have a great upscaling for Euro PS2 and PS1. I have a great PC monitor that will do the trick : Eizo FS2332. (Great in 50Hertz, low input-lag, instead of finding a TV Alpha panel)
For the PS1, i have RGB cable, and PS2 : Officiel Component PS3 Cable.
Does the XRGB-mini will work with this configuration ? No more modding ?

You will need these two adapter cables:

http://www.retrogamingcables.fr/rvb-per ... endre.html
http://www.solarisjapan.com/products/D% ... le%29.html (order it together with the Mini!)

Also don't forget to buy a fitting power supply.

HOWEVER, if you want perfect picture quality please ditch the Component stuff. I tried it myself with a setup just like yours - the Mini's Component input is just horrible, especially if the Component signal comes from a PS2.
Go for RGB. However to prevent a bunch of annoying picture artifacts from happening you will need specially modded RGB cables just like these (read the thread for further details):

http://www.wolfsoft.de/shop/product_inf ... mized.html

You will need a good SCART switch then as well.

[Overkill]

Cool shop (wolfsoft), even have a allready made vga to scart cable, but 30€ for an Playstation 1/2/3 rgb scart cable seems to much for it, even with that "optimized" stuff inside. In the Xbox 1 will still be a better choice use the scart rgb instead of component cables outputing in 480p? In xrgb 3 if input D1 is used the image gets better. Guess in the Xrgb mini they simple removed all others inputs as noone used it anyway because of the video noise.

[BuckoA51]

On the XRGB3 the cleanest component input is the GAME_IN port.

The XBox can't output 480p via SCART.

I've not really noticed the mini's component input to be "horrible" either, though I don't use it much.

[Overkill]

yes, because of that im asking to Thomago if in the case of the xrgb mini he will use the xbox 1 with 480i with scart rgb, instead of component cable with 480p.

[fAbZ]

I'm searching to have a great upscaling for Euro PS2 and PS1. I have a great PC monitor that will do the trick : Eizo FS2332. (Great in 50Hertz, low input-lag, instead of finding a TV Alpha panel)
For the PS1, i have RGB cable, and PS2 : Officiel Component PS3 Cable.
Does the XRGB-mini will work with this configuration ? No more modding ?

You will need these two adapter cables:

http://www.retrogamingcables.fr/rvb-per ... endre.html
http://www.solarisjapan.com/products/D% ... le%29.html (order it together with the Mini!)

Also don't forget to buy a fitting power supply.

HOWEVER, if you want perfect picture quality please ditch the Component stuff. I tried it myself with a setup just like yours - the Mini's Component input is just horrible, especially if the Component signal comes from a PS2.
Go for RGB. However to prevent a bunch of annoying picture artifacts from happening you will need specially modded RGB cables just like these (read the thread for further details):

http://www.wolfsoft.de/shop/product_inf ... mized.html

You will need a good SCART switch then as well.

Many thanks for your usefull informations !

I understand, in order to get the best picture, i need this cable *2 (one for ps1, the same one for ps2?) :

http://www.wolfsoft.de/shop/product_inf ... mized.html

and a cart-switch ? that's right ? but the "fitting power supply" ?? is for what, the XRGB ?

Hopefully i ask here before buying ^^

[RGB32E]

I've determined that Dreamcast CSYNC (pin 10) isn't active when pin 6 and 7 are grounded for VGA mode. I build a SCART cable from a fully wired Dreamcast cable assembly. DC pin 10 is wired to SCART pin 20. Works perfectly for 240p/480i. Perhaps I'll change this cable so that pin 6 and 7 can be toggled and call it good. I picked up a couple new official DC SCART cables and compared them to this and found that between the length of the cable and the type of capacitors used can make for a sharper and cleaner image!

Next thing to try is to add some 1000pF caps to ground on the RGB signals at the SNES connector pins on my THS7374 RGBS bypassed SNES mini. Hope this tames the oversharp image and get's it to the quality of a 1CHIP-01/02 range or better!

[HydrogLox]

We are in business. Who makes these magical devices that do it all in one Scart cable?

Cool shop (wolfsoft), even have a already made vga to scart cable\.

So it seems these cables already exist - if you look in the right place.

Wolfsoft on-line: VGA to SCART cable.

It seems to use an USB connector to power the sync combiner as it was originally designed for PC video cards capable of outputting RGB (15kHz) over the DE-15 port with Soft-15KHz - so it may well work for VGA (31kHz). But you still have to add the 15kHz/31kHz switch as described in Arcade Otaku: Guide - Modding your Dreamcast VGA Box for 15/31kHz output (leave the original switch on "PC" for VGA(31kHz) and RGB(15kHz); "TV" for S-Video or composite will only work with the new switch in the "15kHz" position).

[Smashbro29]

We are in business. Who makes these magical devices that do it all in one Scart cable?

Cool shop (wolfsoft), even have a already made vga to scart cable\.

So it seems these cables already exist - if you look in the right place.

Wolfsoft on-line: VGA to SCART cable.

It seems to use an USB connector to power the sync combiner as it was originally designed for PC video cards capable of outputting RGB (15kHz) over the DE-15 port with Soft-15KHz - so it may well work for VGA (31kHz). But you still have to add the 15kHz/31kHz switch as described in Arcade Otaku: Guide - Modding your Dreamcast VGA Box for 15/31kHz output (leave the original switch on "PC" for VGA(31kHz) and RGB(15kHz); "TV" for S-Video or composite will only work with the new switch in the "15kHz" position).

So the plan is: I use this cable and my existing VGA box and I'll have the ever so magical VGA/240p (and 480i when forced) SCART connection?

[HydrogLox]

So the plan is: I use this cable and my existing VGA box and I'll have the ever so magical VGA/240p (and 480i when forced) SCART connection?

Yes - you still have to add that new switch to the DC VGA box and keep in mind that nobody has tried this yet; this is unproven at this point.

The other unproven *** solution is the Arcade Forge: UMSA - Ultimate SCART Adapter which was also originally designed with Soft-15KHz in mind.

I asked this in the UMSA thread, I am certain it was said that there's no 31khz protection, ie that 31khz is just passed through to the SCART with C-Sync. I don't own one however so I can't 100% confirm this.

It is more expensive as you still need:

• An enclosure.
• A VGA interconnect cable between your DC VGA Box and the UMSA
• A SCART interconnect cable between the UMSA and your SCART selector or Micomsoft XRGB Mini Sync booster for Euro SCART to XRGB Mini 8 pin.
• A 5V DC power supply or power cord.

I expect that the "build quality" of the UMSA is superior.

In both cases your DC VGA box will need to be minimally modded as per Arcade Otaku: Guide - Modding your Dreamcast VGA Box for 15/31kHz output to switch between [240p/480i] and [480p] (in "PC" mode on the original switch).

EDIT: *** Using the UMSA works. See http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... 24#p871224.

[Fudoh]

I'm sorry, but could you refrain from iterating the same answers over and over again (along with the same links) ? It makes the thread boring and doesn't help in the long run.

[Smashbro29]

So the plan is: I use this cable and my existing VGA box and I'll have the ever so magical VGA/240p (and 480i when forced) SCART connection?

Yes - you still have to add that new switch to the DC VGA box and keep in mind that nobody has tried this yet; this is unproven at this point.

The other unproven solution is the Arcade Forge: UMSA - Ultimate SCART Adapter which was also originally designed with Soft-15KHz in mind.

I asked this in the UMSA thread, I am certain it was said that there's no 31khz protection, ie that 31khz is just passed through to the SCART with C-Sync. I don't own one however so I can't 100% confirm this.

It is more expensive as you still need:

• An enclosure.
• A VGA interconnect cable between your DC VGA Box and the UMSA
• A SCART interconnect cable between the UMSA and your SCART selector or Micomsoft XRGB Mini Sync booster for Euro SCART to XRGB Mini 8 pin.
• A 5V DC power supply or power cord.

I expect that the "build quality" of the UMSA is superior.

In both cases your DC VGA box will need to be minimally modded as per Arcade Otaku: Guide - Modding your Dreamcast VGA Box for 15/31kHz output to switch between [240p/480i] and [480p] (in "PC" mode on the original switch).

Woah. Woah. All this advice, it hasn't been tested? Hasn't anyone with a mini tried to use a Dreamcast before?

[Konsolkongen]

I don't understand all the confusion about the Dreamcast on the Framemeister. Yes it works. This was posted, by me, on page 85:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GeXY1ppsbto

I use an Extron interface to combine sync, that's really the only difference. The mod I've done on the SEGA VGA box can be done on any VGA box, and easier too.

[Smashbro29]

I don't understand all the confusion about the Dreamcast on the Framemeister. Yes it works. This was posted, by me, on page 85:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GeXY1ppsbto

I use an Extron interface to combine sync, that's really the only difference. The mod I've done on the SEGA VGA box can be done on any VGA box, and easier too.

This is why I suck at forum conversations. I apologize for asking so many times.

Let's just downright caveman talk here:

Who do I go to to get the necessary thing to make Dreamcast do the 480p/240p (and sometimes 480i) over a single SCART cable?

Uga buga.

Barring some crazy future arcade or PAL purchase I'm pretty much set once I have this answer.

[akumajo]

I will receive an UMSA soon. So you guys want to know if Dreamcast + VGA Box + UMSA will works at 31khz on RGB input of XRGB-Mini ?

[Thomago]

yes, because of that im asking to Thomago if in the case of the xrgb mini he will use the xbox 1 with 480i with scart rgb, instead of component cable with 480p.

Could you please rephrase this question? I don't understand.

and a cart-switch ? that's right ? but the "fitting power supply" ?? is for what, the XRGB ?

You will need two of the cables. And since frequently pluggin SCART cables in and out isn't a good idea (and annoying), you will need a SCART switch (+ another, preferably high quality SCART cable from the switch to the XRGB).
As for the power supply: Yes, for the XRGB. The power supply that comes with the XRGB won't work in Europe. Just buy a universal one (switchable power plugs, switchable voltage) that's able to output 5 V / 3 A.

[Overkill]

Thomago sorry my poor english. Do you use an Xbox 1 with the Xrgb-mini Framemeister? If so, do you connect it with component cables and in 480p, or do you use an rgb scart cable, in 480i, like you use for the Playstation? because of the bad video in component input of the Xrgb-mini Framemeister.

[Thomago]

Thomago sorry my poor english. Do you use an Xbox 1 with the Xrgb-mini Framemeister? If so, do you connect it with component cables and in 480p, or do you use an rgb scart cable, in 480i, like you use for the Playstation? because of the bad video in component input of the Xrgb-mini Framemeister.

No problem
The Framemeister is THE solution for 240p and 480i modes; it does better there than any modern TV. When it comes to 480p your TV will probably do as good or - factoring in the Framemeister's subpar component input - even better than the Framemeister.
I don't own a Xbox 1, but as far as I know it has a multitude of titles that support 480p, right? Judging from that using the Framemeister to scale up Xbox 1 material seems like a waste of money.