Recommendations on a separate upscaler for Video Games

[Tyrone Burton]

Hello everyone, I'm 100% new here and was recommended to come here about this Paticular question.

I've decided I'd like to buy a separate upscaler for my older consoles for display on a Samsung PS51E6500 plasma display, three of them will be using component, one with SCART, and two with HDMI.

You guys might want to know, so my consoles include the PS1,PS2,PS3,Wii,Original Xbox and I usally play my Gamecube games using my Nintendo Wii.

I'd be happy to spend just a little over £1000 on this peice of equipment. Which or what upscaler would you guys recommend to do a good job at the upscaling and overall a good image quality?

[Ed Oscuro]

Hello, thanks for stopping by! I will let the others speak for themselves, but currently resident guru Fudoh has been recommending Micomsoft's latest scaler, the XRGB-mini "Framemeister." I forget if it is the "ideal" solution for every console; it's more focused on display of arcade PCBs and classic systems - 240p sources. The Forum thread about that model is here (it includes Fudoh's review at the top). For 480p-era and even some HD era (720p, like I hear most PS3 games are) systems it might also be a good idea to upscale because upscaling from those resolutions to your set's 1920x1080 can still introduce lag. Fudoh's review will tell you what you need to know in this regard.

I personally have a (rather old and temperamental) original XRGB and it works really well for most 240p RGB sources - most arcade games displaying onto a PC VGA CRT monitor. I don't use it for classic consoles, however, so I can't comment on those inputs (though they are there). I have to admit that the Framemeister has me interested. The current going rate is about $440 USD (before shipping) off Solaris Japan, which probably means about 20 GBP

[Tyrone Burton]

Thanks for your reply

I've heard a bit about the XRGB Framemeister. I'm suspecting that is where I'm going but of course I have to be sure.

I'll check out the link thanks.

[Ed Oscuro]

Something else with a somewhat easier-to-digest list of supported consoles (no details on many, unfortunately):

http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php/XRGB ... AMEMEISTER

[Tyrone Burton]

I've just remembered that this device needs to support 3D for consoles like the PS3 and 360, does it support it?

If not what else is there to consider?

[Fudoh]

The only processors to actively process 3D signals are the Lumagen Radiance series of processors and while 1000 GBP might get you a used one, it's not the best choice for your older systems. If you add a little HDMI matrix switch to your system you can route 3D directly into your TV, while you can get 2D HDMI signals processed (if you have to).

I would recommend a setup combining a Framemeister, an Optoma HD3000 and a 4x4 HDMI Matrix switch. This covers all your systems and gives you the best quality for all sources.

[Stainomo]

If you really want one device there is also the dvdo edge (original not green). This scaler has 3D passthrough so this will work with xbox and ps3.

[Tyrone Burton]

The only processors to actively process 3D signals are the Lumagen Radiance series of processors and while 1000 GBP might get you a used one, it's not the best choice for your older systems. If you add a little HDMI matrix switch to your system you can route 3D directly into your TV, while you can get 2D HDMI signals processed (if you have to).

I would recommend a setup combining a Framemeister, an Optoma HD3000 and a 4x4 HDMI Matrix switch. This covers all your systems and gives you the best quality for all sources.

Thank you for that, I just have two questions. What is the Optoma for? and will those components do very good with film and TV material too?

[Fudoh]

The Optoma is for upscaling 480p and 720p sources to 1080p. Does a wonderful job on those. The Framemeister is for 240p and 480i sources. The Optoma is good enough for movie and TV material as well, yes, but it's not the most comfortable processor to use. You can find reviews on all units on my website.

[Tyrone Burton]

Hi guys, I was just reading Fudohs reveiw. It mentions scanlines, or scanline emulation. What are these?

My amateur guess tells me it's just an artificial add on to make much older games systems look they looked on a CRT?

[Fudoh]

indeed

[Tyrone Burton]

indeed

Ok then thanks.

With the flamemeister, there are many presets to choose. I know what I'm doing with the presets on TVs, but these seem to be about deinterlacing ect.

Which preset would be the best one to use that doesn't add anything artificial and preserves the original image?

[Fudoh]

Why do you bother if you don't a XRGB-Mini ? Picture's the most neutral preset mode for progressive sources. Standard is fine for 480i sources.

[BuckoA51]

What happens on the Optoma when you feed it a 24p signal, does it just pass it through or framerate-convert it?

Also, the Wii looks awful on my Optoma. You could go for the XRGB3 + DVDO Edge combo, Wii looks good on that if you use the XRGB3 as a transcoder. This setup doesn't work with the PC Engine or the Neo Geo though.

[Fudoh]

What happens on the Optoma when you feed it a 24p signal, does it just pass it through or framerate-convert it?

gets converted to 48, 60 or 72Hz - as you chose.

Also, the Wii looks awful on my Optoma.

when I compared the Wii on the Optoma to the same system through DVDO Processor I found some games to look better on the Optoma, while others looked way better on the DVDO. I couldn't even pinpoint it on a sprite/polygon issue.

[BuckoA51]

Odd, well the Wii is a strange case that's for sure. I got as far as the main menu and everything looked washed out and generally poor. Maybe transcoding first would help.

[Tyrone Burton]

What happens on the Optoma when you feed it a 24p signal, does it just pass it through or framerate-convert it?

gets converted to 48, 60 or 72Hz - as you chose.

Also, the Wii looks awful on my Optoma.

when I compared the Wii on the Optoma to the same system through DVDO Processor I found some games to look better on the Optoma, while others looked way better on the DVDO. I couldn't even pinpoint it on a sprite/polygon issue.

As I understand it, HDTVs have to display 24hz in 96hz to reduce judder.

[Fudoh]

no, you understand that wrong.

Also the internal refresh has hardly anything to do with the external one since today's HDMI ports are usually comatible to 50, 60 and 24Hz only.

[hugocraft]

This is my first post and I'm not trying to hijack this thread but I'm in the same situation. I'm in my late 20's and gotten back in to playing old consoles and been playing a N64 with everdrive and sega genesis with everdrive as well. A friend has a framemeister xrgb-mini and playing the genesis using the RGB scart cable with that upscaler is AWESOME!!!!!

But I'm looking to achieve the same thing but hopefully spend less money$$$ I was going to add s-video to the genesis to play on an older flat CRT then learned my video processor SKA2195D doesn't support the mod. So looking at getting the RGB scart cable and an upscaler. I've been looking at this scary > HDMI upscaler and the same model is listed cheaper by other sellers on ebay:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Analog-Scart-CV ... 0802514%26

I've had no luck finding a review of that upscaler and would be nice to see how it does with retro consoles with 4:3 aspect. It lists various output resolutions but still prefer to find some one who has tried it with a retro console.

[Ed Oscuro]

Hey Hugo, if you already have a CRT television I would seriously consider just going with that. I find the quality to be already more than reasonable on the Genesis composite, and you won't have to worry about the lag which can be introduced by newer televisions (and the slight amount added by an upscaler).

Also, I wonder about this. For more reasons than just the idea of getting RGB to component (or S-Video, whatever the TV supports).

[panzeroceania]

Odd, well the Wii is a strange case that's for sure. I got as far as the main menu and everything looked washed out and generally poor. Maybe transcoding first would help.

haven't tried scaling my wii on my HDTV, but transcoding YPbPr>RGBHV through the XSELECT-D4 looks fantastic on a CRT Monitor.

[Tyrone Burton]

I was happy to find out that my Samsung Plasma has a PC mode which disables any YCBCR decoding and simply sends the RGB signal from games without touching it.

I hope this Flamemeister or the Optoma will keep the RGB signal and not use anything YCBCR so no Color decoding is needed.

[Fudoh]

No, they don't. To my knowledge all the processing ICs convert to YCbCr422 for processing.

[panzeroceania]

do people avoid RGB / YCbCr 4:4:4 when making these ICs because the bandwidth requirements are too high, or because it would take a more expensive CPU to process the image?

[Fudoh]

YCbCr 4:2:2 is first choice because that's the native* format of any DVD, Blu-Ray or any DVB Broadcast system. And that's what counts in the markt.

(well, native is 4:2:0, but 4:2:2 is the closest you can transmit using consumer interconnects)