Do people who work for Nintendo have a problem...

[Obiwanshinobi]

...of not listening to other people?
Financially Wii might have been a comeback like no other in the industry, but there are things about Nintendo nowadays I find eyebrow-rising. As if they believed they had possessed the Holy Grail of being right about console gaming once and for all, or something like that.
3DS being region-locked is the latest blow. Before that, on the handheld front, crippled backwards compatibility of DS was a harbinger of Nintendo cooties there.
It's the Wii, though, where I think they sorta fell off their rocker and I believe the topic's ripe for shaking.

First of all, neither any other console, nor those few TV ads I cannot unsee prepared me for setting up my gaming place properly to enjoy "native" Wii games fully. I was lucky to be a PC gamer, so I figured it out by myself, but many overall sane people on the internet seem a tad clueless in this regard and Nintendo didn't know how to help them.

Secondly, I doubt Nintendo produced a single decent gun game that benefits from using a gun pheripheral; also, their own Zapper is infamous (I don't know if rightfully so, but Nintendo pheripherals usually find many apologists; no such luck here).
Unless I'm wrong about the "produced" bit and some of the good light gun games are second party endeavours (I don't take S&P2 into consideration as Wiimote & Nunchuk are where it's at).

Third thing is, CCP may very well be the first ever Nintendo peripheral that I have no idea what they want me to do with.
Make no mistake, I play with PlayStation controllers all the time and know what games they are good for; it's just that I have yet to find a single Wii game where FOUR triggers, no less, are of much use.
This is even weirder than Zapper - I would be fine with Nintendo pushing another chunk of plastic, if only there was at least one game (you know, the one) rendering it indispensable. With the MK wheel, Excite Truck did it for me. CCP, on the other hand, sits there, waiting for a USB adapter, as well as me softmodding the Wii and hogging some homebrew stuff.

Last but not least, I repeat myself - Mario Kart Wii is a BAD looking game. I can't believe even people who have a blast with it don't mind the graphics at the slightest. Can't believe Nintendo can't afford artistic supervision either.
I mean, it's not just Nintendo cooties. It's not elaborately BAD looking like Donkey Kong Country (that was at least technically impressive at its time). It's the cheap kind of bad looking. Only the animations are above average and I found only one decent looking track (the autumnal one).
If this isn't alarming, coming from a company that is hardly begging for alms, I don't know what is. All in all, I'm under impression Nintendo believed they got off the train they really didn't. They still compete, whether they like it or not.

Just had to get it off my chest.

[shmuppyLove]

I fucking love the CCP.

Xenoblade Chronicles, Last Story, Monster Hunter Tri, no way I'm playing that shit any other way, CCP or go the fuck home.

Plus, emulation. The Wii is the best SNES ever.

[Obiwanshinobi]

Played either way, Xenoblade Chronicles felt like a computer game with the controls compromised for the sake of being playable with a joypad to me. There was that "my first cRPG" flavour to it, just like Battalion Wars 2 was very much "my first RTS" by design.
I'd rather play F-Zero with CCP (don't like using the 'Cube pad triggers) and why oh why didn't they make a 2D Metroid game with CCP in mind is beyond me. For the record, I liked Other M, but I do NOT think it would be better if Nintendo put more effort in it. I suspect they desperately need fresh blood. Heck, if they let the Cave Story guy work on 2D Metroid (CCP-exclusive), we'd be talking. If whoever made Geograph Seal made a Wii remake (Wiimote_&_Nunchuk-exclusive), things would get interesting.

The point is, the games I feel Wii DESERVED failed to appear. What can the matter be?

Plus, emulation. The Wii is the best SNES ever.

I do think CCP is one of the best controllers to play SNES games with... and then some, so where's more?
Been playing emulated SNES games on PC and PS2 with a DS2 for years, thus it didn't come as a surprise. On Wii, I'd rather play MD/Genny games with the remote (and possibly MK Wheel for extra comfort). 2-3 buttons console games, basically. Then again, where are such exclusives?

[DJ Incompetent]

Nintendo's whole software philosophy is to come in under budget. You'll never see a massive budget game from them. That's why the music quality is tinny, there's no real voice acting, the art choice is over-stylish, online is barebones, and there's almost never a selectable difficulty setting. Nintendo invents new concepts for the lowest price. If it's worthy, Sony and Microsoft steal it and dump a bigger budget into those concepts.
The closest you'll probably get to a large budget is Smash Bros, because Kirby's team runs that.

You don't trust Nintendo with supporting non-stock peripherals. Do not do that. They never support them after two or three instances. They didn't for R.O.B., they didn't for Super Scope, they didn't for GBA link cables, they didn't for old zapper, they didn't for new zapper. If it doesn't come in the box, expect your aftermarket goods to get limited use.

I only grab Nintendo systems every other gen, then just use backwards compatibility to get whatever less than ten games I missed last time.

[Obiwanshinobi]

With CCP, they "borrowed" the concept from Sony and did nothing with it, did they? I have a vague suspicion it was meant to be a Monster Hunter controller, which is weird, considering that the franchise was most successful on the PSP (only two triggers and no second analogue button there).
Furthermore, I don't think a 2D Metroid game would be THAT expensive to develop. PC freeware in this vein is plentiful and occasionally pretty good, so it's not like there aren't any people up for the job.
Excite Truck effectively has selectable difficulty; just not from the word go (still, nothing stops you from playing for the score). Second party development.

[TransatlanticFoe]

Personally I think the Wii is a brilliant console - it brought me back into gaming after a post-Dreamcast break and I have many more games for it than the gaming PC I got a few months afterwards. Nintendo's mistake was to drop it well in advance of the Wii U's release and that's shown on the balance sheet.

I can't comment on the classic controller because I've never felt the need to buy one. Which is probably comment enough. Where the Wii remote doesn't work (Metal Slug Anthology and The Sky Crawlers), the Gamecube pad is fine.

The Wii was undersold in terms of one thing it could outright do well - light gun shooters. Sega should've been rolling out its back catalogue rather than the handful of games we got - I'm sure a Virtua Cop collection would've sold well, certainly better than Gunblade NY. And the only new stuff came in cheap shovelware form (excluding the "guided first person experience" of Dead Space Extraction and the Resi Chronicles games). For all Sega's douchebaggery on things like the SoR remake, they seem remarkably content in not trying to make money from their IP.

And yeah, I don't mind the graphics on Mario Kart Wii. Or the CoD games. But then, I find SNES Doom enjoyable so I think that says it all about my feelings on graphics and framerates.

[Octopod]

With CCP, they "borrowed" the concept from Sony and did nothing with it, did they?.

What do you mean? That it looks like the Sony controller? Sony borrowed all that stuff in the first place. Nintendo invented the D-pad, SNES button layout, shoulder buttons and triggers, analog sticks, rumble...

[O. Van Bruce]

With CCP, they "borrowed" the concept from Sony and did nothing with it, did they?.

What do you mean? That it looks like the Sony controller? Sony borrowed all that stuff in the first place. Nintendo invented the D-pad, SNES button layout, shoulder buttons and triggers, analog sticks, rumble...

nobody is having an originality contest bettwen console companies here.

[KAI]

That's why the music quality is tinny...The closest you'll probably get to a large budget is Smash Bros, because Kirby's team runs that.

Exactly, and that's only because Masahiro Sakurai is a huge VGM fan. Nintendo's soundtracks have sucked for ages till he began to produce games for them. Kondo is terribly overrated IMO.

[trap15]

Kondo is terribly overrated IMO.

This is overrated? Get out

[shmuppyLove]

I have a vague suspicion it was meant to be a Monster Hunter controller

Yes I think it was released in conjunction with MH3, but the original Classic Controller was really targeted towards VC titles.

There is also the gold variant CCP that was bundled with Goldeneye.



Honestly though, I'm sure it was more or less a knee-jerk reaction to users and developers complaining that the Wii Remote was shitty to hold sideways and didn't have enough buttons and they wanted to play/make games that didn't involve waggling.

I will say though that sitting on my couch with my arms at my sides with the Wii Remote in one hand and Nunchuk in the other is super comfy.

[KAI]

Get out

I'm not saying he's a bad composer, but all the people think he's the best game music composer on earth.
Hate them all, same for Uematsu fans.

[DJ Incompetent]

Kondo is terribly overrated IMO.

This is overrated? Get out

And then someone said "hey that track is pretty sweet, what would it sound like if we jacked it and threw some money behind it?" And then you get this.

I am facts!

[null1024]

Last but not least, I repeat myself - Mario Kart Wii is a BAD looking game. I can't believe even people who have a blast with it don't mind the graphics at the slightest. Can't believe Nintendo can't afford artistic supervision either.

MK:Wii has some issues [such as there being literally no reason to use anything but bikes], graphics aren't one of them. If you were looking for graphics, why the fuck would you buy a Wii? There are like a handful of Wii games that graphically look like they couldn't be done on the Gamecube. The only first-party one I can think of off the top of my head is Mario Galaxy 2, which had quite a bit of visual polish.

Style wise, MK:Wii looks a bit bland, but that's it. It looks just fine. My only problem is that it runs at 30fps in 3 and 4 player [understandable], or with 2 players online [less understandable].

[Obiwanshinobi]

Burnout 2 could be and WAS on the GameCube. Of ALL last-gen console racers I've played, only Battle Gear 3 doesn't look better than MK Wii.
Again, I can't believe Nintendo couldn't have hired a person who'd point it out and say: "This looks fucking ugly and what's with the slimy shader upon EVERYTHING that moves anyway, characters and vehicles alike? Whether the vehicles are also dressed up in silk and leather, or greased with butter? Take your pick." It is not JUST cheap looking; it is ridiculous for the wrong reasons.
It's more of an issue that single player being still pretty much good for nothing (nobody buys MK for single player, thus making it work online was a more urgent matter).

What do you mean? That it looks like the Sony controller?

Very much feels like one. The number and placement of analogue sticks, d-pad, buttons and triggers available is a hint. I used all four triggers ("shoulder buttons" if you say so) in Super Metroid and Cave Story. I do not comperhend why didn't Nintendo come up with a single game I'm aware of that would make me glad I purchased the controller. They have precious little to do with just about every game I feel like playing with it.

And the only new stuff came in cheap shovelware form (excluding the "guided first person experience" of Dead Space Extraction and the Resi Chronicles games).

I like Dead Space: Extraction, but it felt more like point & click action-adventure (think Policenauts) than truly a gun game. Motion controls are extraordinarily well done there: hacking away at things felt particulary beefy, whereas Red Steel 2 was nonsense in that respect.
Point and click seems more underused than light guns on the Wii. I can think of Zack & Wiki, DS:E and... little else.
Another mystery is why didn't Falcom and Konami remake Snatcher & Policenauts/Ys I&II yet again. It's not like either company has been reluctant to resell their oldies until now (and such collections could be downloadable this time around).
Can't blame Nintendo here, though. Metroid Prime Trilogy was exactly the kind of thing Falcom and Konami failed to deliver.

[Paradigm]

It's more of an issue that single player being still pretty much good for nothing (nobody buys MK for single player, thus making it work online was a more urgent matter).

Erm, ever heard of time trials?

Also, it's a perfectly fine looking game.

[Obiwanshinobi]

CPU in MK Wii feels "lifeless" like in no other racer, which is lamentable in a game about vehicular combat (for lack of a better word). I can name a number of fairly modest vehicular games where A.I. is more fun, simply: Mashed: Fully Loaded, the first Burnout, Twisted Metal: Black (okay, this one is not modest, but doesn't look great either), Crash 'N' Burn (2004)... and really, of all these, even TM: Black looks better than MK Wii (albeit in a different style).

[Paradigm]

There are no CPU racers in time trials though.

And yes actually, a lot of people buy MK primarily for this 1-player mode.

[Obiwanshinobi]

Played Time Trials and the lack of A.I. didn't make the experience any better for me. Nowhere near Survival in the original Burnout, Time Attack (ghost chasing) in 2 and Burning Laps in 3 (to name a few modes that essentially all boil down to finishing the track as soon as possible without accidents).
Where do those people who bought MK Wii for Time Trials post their high scores? There must be someplace else online than the official scoreboards.

For all Sega's douchebaggery on things like the SoR remake, they seem remarkably content in not trying to make money from their IP.

Did Sega deprive a single person on Earth of the Streets of Remake experience? If not, what's the problem? Was it any more legal before they spoke up?

[TransatlanticFoe]

Sega authorised it quite early on only to pull the plug at release because they decided it would harm sales of their regularly re-released Mega Drive collections. The point being that Sega constantly re-release the same old games and had an opportunity with the Wii to draw out their light gun back catalogue (granted they did release about 5 and one of the best, The Lost World, would have licensing issues), making money from that instead. Panzer Dragoon would've been another good one to roll out.

[Paradigm]

Where do those people who bought MK Wii for Time Trials post their high scores? There must be someplace else online than the official scoreboards.

http://mkwii.co.nf/

[Obiwanshinobi]

Panzer Dragoon would've been another good one to roll out.

Zwei perhaps. Good game, but I had to get a Saturn to find out.
The first one got ported to the PC and PS2 already. I believe Zwei deserves a remake like the PS2 NiGHTS remake ("HD" version is basically that one, down to the "Saturn my arse" mode). Polygonal Saturn games don't age as well graphically as Mode 2 games. There's a decision to be made, followed by funding. Sega, being business, don't have as many friends as champions of justice have.

That being said, I think Sega don't deserve this thread to be jacked on their behalf. About the time they gave up on Dreamcast, they made some of my very favourite games ever, on Nintendo and Sony consoles at that (and VF4 Evo isn't even one of these), then produced probably the best possible (without porting) on PS2 Sega Ages collections, then some fairly groovy remakes (Virtual-On, Dynamite Deka, NiGHTS, Alien Syndrome)...
But the cool kids kept whining: boo-hoo-hoo Dreamcast, boo-hoo-hoo Streets of Remake (NOT really arrested or shut down; it was already out and officially complete)...
I feel for every Super Monkey Ball credit I play, those kids deserve a go at Sonic the Hedgehog or some other MD game Sega actually produced rather than just released, be it Streets of Rage or Comix Zone.

[BryanM]

Didn't want to make a whole thread for it, but the end of Nintendo Power makes me feel... really damn old.

It's also creepy other people share my memories. That AVGN video? With that "Terror Teddy" suggestion for a megaman character? I remember that shit.

[BulletMagnet]

I actually got a piece of envelope art published in there once, years ago, after countless fruitless attempts. My life has been, perhaps inevitably, downhill ever since.

[shmuppyLove]

[Obiwanshinobi]

Wii Mini not only lacks 'Cube ports and SD slot, BUT ALSO DOES NOT OUTPUT COMPONENT VIDEO SIGNAL.

[null1024]

Wii Mini not only lacks 'Cube ports and SD slot, BUT ALSO DOES NOT OUTPUT COMPONENT VIDEO SIGNAL.

why is this model even a thing

Seriously, no SD? No Wifi [or network support through any means, not even Nintendo's USB Ethernet cable for the Wii]? No fucking anything?
Removing component support is a fairly common cost-cutting practice, so I can't totally fault them there.

It is a useless product. Hell, it's almost the same size as the Wii. It barely qualifies as "mini".
You can buy a new not-Mini Wii for $130USD, and it looks nicer and does more, even if it still doesn't have the Gamecube ports. For $30 more, you can buy something that isn't completely crippled.

[Drum]

With CCP, they "borrowed" the concept from Sony and did nothing with it, did they? I have a vague suspicion it was meant to be a Monster Hunter controller, which is weird, considering that the franchise was most successful on the PSP (only two triggers and no second analogue button there).

The classic controller is first and foremost for the virtual console. The reason it is similar to the dual shock is because it is trying to solve the problem the dual shock was trying to solve, but in reverse - CC needed the dpad in the primary position to properly support nes/snes/etc games, the dual shock needed it in the primary position because it was an add-on controller that had to be similar to the original ps controller, only with analog sticks. Dual shock was a hack, classic controller was by design. The pro was released with Monster Hunter, yes.

[O. Van Bruce]

Mario kart was ruined by the motorcycles and specially the combination of Funky Kong + Bowser's bike... in my whole 2 years playing Mario Kart Wii (until I got sick of it) I've only seen a handful of +9500 points that didn't used that shit. It was depressing when I had to play with my normal bike against 4 or 5 FK + BB.

PD:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wx74VM5-vV0

this is amazing. how could he do that?

[Obiwanshinobi]

Dual shock was a hack, classic controller was by design.

Dual Shock was enhancement and many games utilised it formidably: Apocalypse, Robotron mode of Gauntlet: Dark Legacy, Sega's own Alien Syndrome and Virtual-On remakes, Cyber Org (if you know about any eariler game with such camera controls, let me know), about every vehicular game where I can map accelerate/brake/reverse onto the right stick (except maybe for Twisted Metal: Black where I don't use sticks)... I don't even list Sony games where both sticks are somewhat essential, because it came with the turf.
PlayStation controller also happened to be pretty much the first gamepad where mashing on at least one button (right bottom trigger) was any fun. Heck, after the first Burnout played with a 'Cube joypad, 2 played with a DS2 initially felt less comfy, but having realised just how much pressing and holding down the trigger 2 takes, I don't regret getting the PS2 version anymore.
Now where's at least one Nintendo game utilising two sticks, no less (that isn't simply better played with Wiimote & Nunchuk), let alone bottom triggers? First party, second party - take your pick.
Xenoblade Chronicles is scrapping the barrel's bottom as: a) it wasn't much more playable with the pad and b) playing it on the Wii was thrift gaming anyway (all the way through I couldn't shake off the feeling that I'd be better off saving up dough for a better PC, then maybe revistiting the game on it).
The Last Story... we'll see about that. Have yet to unseal mine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wx74VM5-vV0

this is amazing. how could he do that?

A far cry from 60 fps, but at least it's not voiced.