Raspberry Pi

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RGC
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Raspberry Pi

Post by RGC »

Anyone planning on getting one of these?:

http://www.raspberrypi.org/

Beta boards were auctioning on ebay at over two thousand GBP yesterday. Note: they'll be $25 at official launch.
Raspberry Pi wrote: The idea behind a tiny and cheap computer for kids came in 2006, when Eben Upton was lecturing and working in admissions at Cambridge University. Eben had noticed a distinct drop in the skills levels of the A Level students applying to read Computer Science in each academic year when he came to interview them. From a situation in the 1990s where most of the kids applying were coming to interview as hobbyist programmers, the landscape in the 2000s was very different; a typical applicant now had experience only with web design, and sometimes not even with that. Fewer people were applying to the course every year. Something had changed the way kids were interacting with computers.

Eben and colleagues from the university like Rob Mullins and Alan Mycroft (both now trustees of the Raspberry Pi Foundation) batted around ideas about what had happened in schools to cause this change. A number of problems were identified: the colonisation of the ICT curriculum with lessons on using Word and Excel, or writing webpages; the end of the dot-com boom; and the rise of the home PC and games console to replace the Amigas, BBC Micros, Spectrum ZX and Commodore 64 machines that people of an earlier generation learned to program on.

There isn’t much any small group of people can do to address problems like an inadequate school curriculum or the end of a financial bubble. But we felt that we could try to do something about the situation where computers had become so expensive and arcane that programming experimentation on them had to be forbidden by parents; and to find a platform that, like those old home computers, could boot into a programming environment.

Over the next few years, Eben, having left the university for industry, worked on building prototypes of what has now become the Raspberry Pi in his spare time (you can see a very early version here).

By 2008, processors designed for mobile devices were becoming more affordable, and powerful enough to provide excellent multimedia (a Raspberry Pi can play Blu-Ray-quality video), a feature we felt makes the board desirable to kids who aren’t initially interested in a raw programming device. The project started to look very realisable. Eben came together with a group of friends and old colleagues with a wide-ranging group of skills, some of whom were already wrestling with the problem of what to do about producing new young programmers. These people became the Raspberry Pi board of trustees: David Braben, a star game designer and Cambridgeshire entrepreneur with a book of contacts as long as your arm; Jack Lang, a local academic and business angel who worked on the original BBC Micro project; Pete Lomas, MD of a hardware design and manufacture company where our earliest boards have been designed and built; and Professor Alan Mycroft and Dr Rob Mullins from the Cambridge University Computer Lab, who have provided a lot of the educational direction of the project.

Three years later, we’re nearly at the end of our first run of development – although it’s just the beginning of the Raspberry Pi story. David has been tireless in raising press awareness and finding us sponsorship. Pete has designed and built our first batch of boards for test; Jack runs the business end of things and has a warehouse we’ve filled with hundreds of thousands of pounds-worth of componentry ready to turn into our first boards.

We’ve had enormous interest, support and help from the educational community, and we’ve been delighted and a little humbled by the number of enquiries from agencies and people far away from our original targets for the device. Developing countries are interested in the Raspberry Pi as productivity devices in areas that simply can’t afford the power and hardware needed to run a traditional desktop PC; hospitals and museums have contacted us to find out about using the Raspberry Pi to drive display devices. Parents of severely disabled kids have talked to us about monitoring and accessibility applications; and there seem to be a million and one people out there with hot soldering irons who want to make a robot.

We don’t claim to have all the answers. We don’t think that the Raspberry Pi is a fix to all of the world’s computing issues; we do believe that we can be a catalyst. We want to see cheap, accessible, programmable computers everywhere; we actively encourage other companies to clone what we’re doing. We want to break the paradigm where without spending hundreds of pounds on a PC, families can’t use the internet. We want owning a truly personal computer to be normal for children. We think that 2012 is going to be a very exciting year.

The Raspberry Pi Foundation is a UK registered charity (Registration Number 1129409)
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nem
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Re: Raspberry Pi

Post by nem »

It's pretty neat. However, I would have gladly paid more for one with some better specs (700mhz ARM11 with 128mb RAM is fairly weak).
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null1024
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Re: Raspberry Pi

Post by null1024 »

I'm planning to get one. Could be interesting, and I like how it has RCA out for video [also, that better be NTSC ;3].
You need to supply a lot of hardware of your own to be able to use it though [power adapter [read: micro USB plug, so you probably have one], keyboard/mouse/display [that is expected though], USB hub, etc]. $25 just gets you a bare machine. Not too shabby though.

I'd say it's a shame they can't use Ubuntu due to the lack of RAM [128MB on A model [$25], 256MB on B model [$35]], except I wouldn't go near any modern version of Ubuntu with less than 512MB onboard, so other distros would be probably be more reasonable.

Lack of Wifi seems like a bother, because USB Wifi support in Linux is still a bit iffy, and I'll probably need a powered USB hub because of all the shit that'll be plugged into it.

Also, totally getting the B model, 128MB RAM is pathetic. It would have been nice if the processor could have been in the GHz range, but that would probably drive the cost up a bit, considering they were sticking to try to make the machines stick to the prices they said they would go for.
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Estebang
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Re: Raspberry Pi

Post by Estebang »

This looks like an even worse idea than One Laptop Per Child. No thanks.
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BPzeBanshee
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Re: Raspberry Pi

Post by BPzeBanshee »

I saw this at Yoyogames first - from the screenshots they got posted there it looks like they're trying to get Game Maker working under the OS the Raspberry Pi uses - evidently they must've made some kind of performance improvements too.

I for one like the concept, and as for the lack of power, on the OS they've got it working with it can play 1080p videos without issues which devices with much better specs (ie the Wii) would crash and burn. I'm pretty certain it's being targeted at whoever can use such a device as a media player or file hosting server or what the blurb's mentioned.

How about you cynics look on the bright side though - this thing can finally kill off the "MAME can run on a toaster" theory or prove it right when it hits retail.
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shmuppyLove
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Re: Raspberry Pi

Post by shmuppyLove »

Ah I figured there was already a thread for this, any reason it's not in Hardware though?

I guess these are starting to find their way out into the wild now? I'm a little surprised at the low clock speed (700MHz) -- but I guess it might be enough to emulate some of the older consoles and arcade stuff?
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njiska
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Re: Raspberry Pi

Post by njiska »

I'm still looking at getting one of these to use as an XBMC set top box. The core clock is a bit low, but the hardware h264 decoder adds potential.
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TrevHead (TVR)
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Re: Raspberry Pi

Post by TrevHead (TVR) »

I think its quite a noble thing that they are trying to accomplish. A cheap system that like the old 8bit computers encourage ppl to tinker with programming, They've been talking to the UK goverment about putting them in schools
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ED-057
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Re: Raspberry Pi

Post by ED-057 »

A small single board computer for $25 could be attractive for hardware projects. But for "learning to program?" I don`t see it.

1) (some) home computers from back in the day used hardware and software that was documented. Raspi FAQ states that the datasheet for its chip is not available. And the software that runs on it is the same old stuff that you can already run on a PC, except it has been recompiled to run on something else instead. (and BTW, having software`s source code is not the same thing as software being documented.)

2) You can`t compete with PCs on price alone. Because regardless of how much a new PC costs, used ones are available for free at the dump.
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BPzeBanshee
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Re: Raspberry Pi

Post by BPzeBanshee »

ED-057 wrote: 2) You can`t compete with PCs on price alone. Because regardless of how much a new PC costs, used ones are available for free at the dump.
Where do you live? They're certainly not free at my local dump. $40 bare minimum for anything the staff can get up and running and well into the hundreds range if it actually looks any good.
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Re: Raspberry Pi

Post by sjewkestheloon »

I plan on picking up at least one when they are easily available, probably a couple. Should be a lot of fun to mess with.
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Re: Raspberry Pi

Post by spadgy »

I'm really up for giving this a go. David Braben (Frontier Developments/creator of Elite) is one of the main people behind this, and as he writes a column for our magazine I've got to know him pretty well, and his enthusiasm is infectious. So I'm really interested in getting one now.

In fact, I interviewed David about Raspberry Pi late last year.
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ancestral-knowledge
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Re: Raspberry Pi

Post by ancestral-knowledge »

uhm... dunno...
i write c++ and all these shitty new languages everyday...even fucking cobol now...

..there's nothing for me there i suppose...

only thing that is left is ASM but i'm afraid of it...
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Re: Raspberry Pi

Post by beatsgo »

ancestral-knowledge wrote:uhm... dunno...
i write c++ and all these shitty new languages everyday...even fucking cobol now...

..there's nothing for me there i suppose...

only thing that is left is ASM but i'm afraid of it...
Imagine being a video game coder in the 1980s and 1990s. Even the Sega Saturn was programmed in assembly language.

Believe or not, assembly coding is not hard to learn. Like all other computer languages, it's debugging that kills the fun. I do hope whenever my Rasphberry Pi comes in, I can program it with ASM for some projects such as 3d modeling and digital signal processing.
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Re: Raspberry Pi

Post by Ex-Cyber »

ancestral-knowledge wrote:only thing that is left is ASM but i'm afraid of it...
Nonsense. After ASM, you learn Verilog and design your own CPU that makes all other CPUs look like worthless shit. ;)

Seriously, though, what ASM have you looked at? I don't recommend starting with x86 unless you have a burning desire to reverse-engineer PC code. MIPS is pretty friendly, and ARM and SuperH aren't bad either.
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ED-057
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Re: Raspberry Pi

Post by ED-057 »

$40 bare minimum for anything the staff can get up and running
Your local garbage dump employs a staff to pick through old computers?? Mine charges by the pound to dispose of stuff, nothing to take it with you. Aside from that, people occasionally place old PCs at the curb, and there are periodic "electronics recycling" collections.
Believe or not, assembly coding is not hard to learn.
This is true.

High-level languages = wandering around a vast lumber yard trying to find exactly the right piece of wood to complete your bird house.

Assembly = a saw which can be used to cut whatever you need
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BPzeBanshee
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Re: Raspberry Pi

Post by BPzeBanshee »

ED-057 wrote:
$40 bare minimum for anything the staff can get up and running
Your local garbage dump employs a staff to pick through old computers?? Mine charges by the pound to dispose of stuff, nothing to take it with you. Aside from that, people occasionally place old PCs at the curb, and there are periodic "electronics recycling" collections.
Yeah we have what's called a "Dump Shop" where the staff have picked through the electronics and stuff and attempt to sell it to people. You still have to pay for it even if it doesn't work or if they're unsure if it works. It sometimes nabs a good deal because you get a staff member that's not a completely money-grabbing cunt and get a UPS like I did for $40 that works just fine (a new one up here is into the 100s - the batteries in it just went dead recently though and it'll likely cost $80 to get replacement batteries), but other times the whole lot just smells of illegal money laundering. Your place sounds like heaven in comparison.

I once saw a gaming computer there that had all of its components intact and one staff member offered $20 and when I came back with the 20 to purchase the other staff member stepped in and said it wasn't for sale because he was going to get it to an IT technician and then sell it for hundreds if not thousands. It's technically illegal to display a product that isn't for sale at a commercial business without actually having a sign of some sort stating such here but that didn't stop these guys. There's also VHS sets, some DVDs, TVs, computers everywhere, old fridges etc. Outside the dump people either directly throw out their computers or hand it into IT stores where they do the same thing - and while we don't have ESD here none of it's in the best condition. That "brand new" PC you got from a store up here could easily be an old customer's computer they've just offered it in because they don't want any 'hassles' armed with stuff that's been around cockroaches and old parts that could blow at any time.

Bringing it back on topic, if this Raspberry Pi is any good for sturdiness it should be quite popular here, especially in the rural communities here (the NT has a lot of those thanks to its terrain - in fact the capital city which I live is considered 'remote' compared to the rest of Australia). The IT businesses here get lots of computers from the rural areas that are littered with more dust per square cm inside/on the cases than the entire stock of drugs Charlie Sheen has. Having a credit card-sized device that a simple blow can fix with more functionality and cheaper cost than those rustbuckets would be very good. Furthermore, I've heard Yoyogames are trying to get a version of Game Maker working under ARM architecture with this device in mind which will be excellent for remote schools. With the amount of funding for aboriginal support the remote schools get here, they should be able to not only buy a crapton of these things but buy all of the components for it (keyboard monitor mouse etc) AND have spare parts lying around for whichever component breaks first.
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Re: Raspberry Pi

Post by shmuppyLove »

Bumping with some MAME info:

http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/tag/mame

Looks like it has no problem playing NeoGeo games, that's pretty impressive.

Disclaimer: I am not on the payroll of the Raspberry Pi Foundation.
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Re: Raspberry Pi

Post by null1024 »

shmuppyLove wrote:Bumping with some MAME info:

http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/tag/mame

Looks like it has no problem playing NeoGeo games, that's pretty impressive.
The Neo Geo driver is one of the better optimized ones, I'd sure as hell hope this thing could at least manage that. Other drivers for comparable age and spec hardware might struggle.

I still kind of want one. Also, it now 512MB memory isn't completely crippling [yay!], although some of that is shared with video hardware and the like.
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shmuppyLove
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Re: Raspberry Pi

Post by shmuppyLove »

It's kind of amusing that a computer smaller than the size of a single Neo Geo cartridge can store and run the system's entire library :lol:
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undamned
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Re: Raspberry Pi

Post by undamned »

shmuppyLove wrote:It's kind of amusing that a computer smaller than the size of a single Neo Geo cartridge can store and run the system's entire library :lol:
Speaking of which, I'm offically adding a project to my list: raspberry pi inside an mvs cart.
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nem
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Re: Raspberry Pi

Post by nem »

I kind of want one of these to put XBMC on.
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