PSN-Ban Incoming for CFW Users

[Friendly]

Looks like Sony is preparing to perma-ban PS3s with modified firmware from PSN.

Important Notice: Access to the PlayStation®Network and Access to Sony Entertainment Network Services

Dear valued PlayStation®3 customers,

Unauthorized software for the PlayStation®3 system was recently released by hackers. Use of such software violates the terms of the "System Software License Agreement for the PlayStation®3 System" and the "Terms of Services and User Agreement" for the PlayStation®Network/Sony Entertainment Network and its Community Code of Conduct provisions.

Violation of the System Software License Agreement for the PlayStation®3 system invalidates the consumer's right to access that system. Consumers running unauthorized or pirated software may have their access to the PlayStation®Network and access to Sony Entertainment Network services through PlayStation®3 system terminated permanently.

To avoid permanent termination, consumers must immediately cease using and delete all unauthorized or pirated software from their PlayStation®3 systems.

In order to help provide a safe, fair, online environment, consumers who we believe violate "Terms of Services and User Agreement" for the PlayStation®Network/Sony Entertainment Network or the applicable laws or regulations of their country or region risk having access to the PlayStation®Network and access to Sony Entertainment Network services terminated permanently.

While I think that it is fine for you to modify hardware you own in whichever way you like, I fully agree with this. PSN isn't part of your hardware, it's a service that costs money to maintain. Furthermore, since custom firmware (CFW) allows cheating, a few people (pirate kiddies) who don't know how to behave ruin it for everyone else (paying customers). Microsoft has been banning hacked 360s for years. Good riddance.

Violation of the System Software License Agreement for the PlayStation®3 system invalidates the consumer's right to access that system.

That is bullshit, of course.

[KAI]

"If you have hacked console, we are going to hack you"

Fight fire with fire.

[njiska]

This is just par for the course. Kind of moot as who uses PS3 CFW for PSN stuff anyways?

"If you have hacked console, we are going to hack you"

Fight fire with fire.

That's like fighting rape with rape, or Nazis with more Nazis. Actually, I'd kind of like to see that one.

[ZellSF]

Not sure about their wording. Are they banning consoles or accounts?

Should be consoles, banning accounts imo isn't acceptable or even a good idea, more dedicated consumers might have over thousand dollars worth of content on those accounts. They won't be coming back as legit consumers if you take that content away from them.

[Cuilan]

I'm not confident that they'll actually follow through with this threat, at least on a grand scale. They've said stuff like this in the past, yet haven't really done anything. From what I've seen, Sony has no actual way of detecting a CFW console unless the person does something that gives them away while connected to PSN (firing up MultiMANN, cheating in a game, using an emulator, etc.)

Much like the PSP, there are ways to work around a console ban anyway. An account ban seems like it would be more of an issue.

[EmperorIng]

That's like fighting rape with rape, or Nazis with more Nazis. Actually, I'd kind of like to see that one.

So Under Defeat?

[neorichieb1971]

If I were Sony I would make a PS4 which would mean you could fuck with the scoundrels. Basically have it so their games just randomly crash. Don't have warnings, just fuck with them.

I only like the 1st year of console launches for this reason. As soon as the scoundrels get their mits on free software, CFW and the like. Well, it just makes the payers seem like twats. This is the worst console round so far since the 16 bit era as far as games are concerned (full priced ones anyway).

[Ed Oscuro]

If I were Sony I would make a PS4 which would mean you could fuck with the scoundrels. Basically have it so their games just randomly crash.

If this is what it means to have a PS4, I think I'll pass.

In any case you'd still have the people on the PS3 untamed.

[trap15]

If I were Sony I would make a PS4 which would mean you could fuck with the scoundrels. Basically have it so their games just randomly crash. Don't have warnings, just fuck with them.

Considering the PS4 runs on PC hardware, and will probably have an OS written by Sony, I'm sure that'll happen, but for everyone

[Ed Oscuro]

If I were Sony I would make a PS4 which would mean you could fuck with the scoundrels. Basically have it so their games just randomly crash. Don't have warnings, just fuck with them.

Considering the PS4 runs on PC hardware, and will probably have an OS written by Sony, I'm sure that'll happen, but for everyone

I can see it now

"hurry the fuck up Sony and roll in those latest USB driver fixes from Renesas hnggh"

[Friendly]

scoundrels

[Specineff]

There's CFW For PS3? Honestly I didn't know.

[icbluscrn]

Not sure about their wording. Are they banning consoles or accounts?

Should be consoles, banning accounts imo isn't acceptable or even a good idea, more dedicated consumers might have over thousand dollars worth of content on those accounts. They won't be coming back as legit consumers if you take that content away from them.

if you are dumb enough to get caught with cfw then they should ban both since if you have cfw you probably aren't paying for that thousands of dollars worth of content.

does it really matter? its not the first time this happened. there was a long period of time that online was shut down to cfw so it was like a ban but games could still be played.

[Cuilan]

if you are dumb enough to get caught with cfw then they should ban both since if you have cfw you probably aren't paying for that thousands of dollars worth of content.

does it really matter? its not the first time this happened. there was a long period of time that online was shut down to cfw so it was like a ban but games could still be played.

Technically, online wasn't "shut down" to CFW users. The problem is that PSN access has always required up-to-date firmware, and since the highest CFW version available until recently was based on 3.55, most people could not access PSN unless they either switched to official firmware or used special programs that would "trick" PSN into thinking a CFW PS3 was actually using the latest OFW.

[ZellSF]

Not sure about their wording. Are they banning consoles or accounts?

Should be consoles, banning accounts imo isn't acceptable or even a good idea, more dedicated consumers might have over thousand dollars worth of content on those accounts. They won't be coming back as legit consumers if you take that content away from them.

if you are dumb enough to get caught with cfw then they should ban both since if you have cfw you probably aren't paying for that thousands of dollars worth of content.

does it really matter? its not the first time this happened. there was a long period of time that online was shut down to cfw so it was like a ban but games could still be played.

You think potentially losing your entire PS3/PSP/Vita game library along with all your account information (trophies, friend list, cloud saves) is essentially the same as losing access to it from one device?

Yes, Sony could account ban those who are "probably" pirates, but the problem is that all of them are not 100% pirates but they will be if Sony does that.

[CMPXCHG8B]

Not sure about their wording. Are they banning consoles or accounts?

Should be consoles, banning accounts imo isn't acceptable or even a good idea, more dedicated consumers might have over thousand dollars worth of content on those accounts. They won't be coming back as legit consumers if you take that content away from them.

I have heard conflicting reports about this.

The PS3 itself contains no provisions for permanently marking a console as a banned device. This is in contrast to the Xbox 360, where getting yourself banned from XBL will actually write changes to EEPROM on the logic board and remove the ability to install games to your hard drive and do a few other things as well (you can backup the contents of this EEPROM and restore the bits an XBL ban blows away, but it's neither easy nor straight forward- I don't even think it's possible on the latest Slim units).

So hardware side bans for the PS3 would have to be implemented using a blacklist on Sony's side, and given how old the console is and the fact that the PS4 is right around the corner- I highly doubt they're going to want to invest the time and resources into building a global database of "banned" consoles that PSN can check your console against every time you sign in.

It is more likely that they will simply terminate your PSN account, since that's what they'll be detecting- user XYZ signed into PSN on a "hacked" PS3, so erase his account from the network.

-CMPX

[Cuilan]

So hardware side bans for the PS3 would have to be implemented using a blacklist on Sony's side, and given how old the console is and the fact that the PS4 is right around the corner- I highly doubt they're going to want to invest the time and resources into building a global database of "banned" consoles that PSN can check your console against every time you sign in.

It is more likely that they will simply terminate your PSN account, since that's what they'll be detecting- user XYZ signed into PSN on a "hacked" PS3, so erase his account from the network.

-CMPX

Cost and time aside, a hardware blacklist wouldn't do Sony much good, since CFW allows people to mask/alter their Console ID with very little effort. There are also external programs that run on the PC which allow PS3 users (both on CFW and older OFW) to tunnel into PSN without revealing their true Console ID or having to update their firmware.

As for banning PSN accounts, as I said, there's no evidence that they can directly detect a CFW user (at least not reliably). The only way they would be willing to do a mass banning would be if they somehow find a way to guarantee that only CFW users get banned.

[icbluscrn]

i think its a moot point Sony couldnt ban cfw when the first cfw came out (they banned cheaters who could get unbanned by psnspoof) so i dont think they could ban now. If they can people should not cry about it.

Yes, Sony could account ban those who are "probably" pirates, but the problem is that all of them are not 100% pirates but they will be if Sony does that.

well the 1% with cfw that dont pirate would be sol , wont hurt sony a bit and its against the TOS.

Technically, online wasn't "shut down" to CFW users. The problem is that PSN access has always required up-to-date firmware, and since the highest CFW version available until recently was based on 3.55, most people could not access PSN unless they either switched to official firmware or used special programs that would "trick" PSN into thinking a CFW PS3 was actually using the latest OFW.

yea cfw/ofw spoofing went away after they changed keys in 3.61 so the only way was to use something like xlink or xbslink so those who still have 3.5 wouldnt played online much anyway as i found either of those two providers to be relatively empty

[CMPXCHG8B]

yea cfw/ofw spoofing went away after they changed keys in 3.61 so the only way was to use something like xlink or xbslink so those who still have 3.5 wouldnt played online much anyway as i found either of those two providers to be relatively empty

You know that CFW is quite alive and well right now?

Ever since the lv0 keys got dumped, those on 3.50/3.55 have been able to update to custom 4.x+ firmwares and retain full online PSN compatibility. Apart from new consoles shipping with firmware > 3.55, the PS3's security has been totally breached and there is no way for Sony to close that hole anymore for older consoles. Anyone who has CFW compatibility right now can maintain that indefinitely going into the future, so long as the hackers are content with decrypting and resigning CFW firmware releases to stay in tandem with the latest OFW.

In other words, Sony is totally fucked right now. They can't detect CFW consoles (and if they could, the hackers can always patch out the checks). The only thing they can do is ban depending on other players reporting in-game hackers with PSN's report player functionality. That's all this notice was- fair warning that they're going to hammer people that they can identify as running illegitimate/hacked games online, but likely only if enough people report the perpetrator to PSN first.

-CMPX

[Ex-Cyber]

In future versions, Sony could avoid the check itself being patched out by introducing a challenge/response handshake in which a PSN server provides the detection code. Of course, that would presumably just lead to some kind of "stealth CFW" that disables CFW-specific syscalls and/or visibility of homebrew-specific filesystem paths when running Sony-signed programs. Unless Sony wants to inject supervisor or hypervisor code over PSN, CFW wins because CFW gets to define the userland interface.

And then Sony releases PS4 and Razor 1911 releases a PC-compatible version of the OS on launch day or whatever.