Scanlines...why?

[null1024]

Nearest Neighbor > Scanlines

This, so much.

Also, what the hell Illyrian? I can understand shitting on the graphics for some games, but Progear's pixel art looks great, better than a lot of other 2D games I've played and better than quite a few 3D-based shmups. By definition my ass.

[Ghegs]

Isn't this an Off Topic or Hardware thread?

It sure is.

Also: By definition...pshaw!

[Illyrian]

Nearest Neighbor > Scanlines

This, so much.

Also, what the hell Illyrian? I can understand shitting on the graphics for some games, but Progear's pixel art looks great, better than a lot of other 2D games I've played and better than quite a few 3D-based shmups. By definition my ass.

Yeah, 3D shmups look like shit.

Compare any shmup pixel art apart from Akai Katana to ANY modern game with proper graphics. The difference is monumental.

[dunpeal2064]

But not necessarily better.

I mean, I appreciate something created purely from fiction more than I enjoy dirt and grass in CoD.

Raiden II looks much better than Madden 2012 imo.

Of course, there are excpetions, but when you say, 'By definition", you are just asking for a backlash, especially here

[trap15]

Uhm, I was under the impression that Progear was pre-rendered 3D like most of Cave's games

[Marc]

It's all kind of redundant. Arguing over display modes on a HDTV is pointless. A CRT always wins. hD is just a case of whatever looks less shitty to the individual.

[GaijinPunch]

Cool. This thread again.

Up Next: Chicken or the Egg.

[nZero]

Cool. This thread again.

Except this one doesn't have Recap injecting insanity disguised as Absolute Truth to keep things interesting.

[Vyxx]

People think Progear is ugly?

May not be the prettiest game but ugly?

[shmuppyLove]

Cool. This thread again.

Up Next: Chicken or the Egg.

I was just thinking this. And I haven't really been here that long, so what does that say?

[neorichieb1971]

Let people be.

I'm surprised nobody has mastered the fake scanline look on a digital TV.

The problem isn't so much about the scanlines. Metal Slug using an XRGB2 in native resolution looks astounding. Its when you make it full screen things get ugly (uglier) . Also, scaling washes the colours out.

If I had the money I would reinvent some of these games in native 1080HD.

[Paradigm]

Because it's sprite art. By definition it looks worse than proper modern day graphics.

Wow, I knew you were at least slightly retarded, but this surprised even me.

Visuals are a matter of taste, dumbass.

By definition, high-res graphics are simply high resolution. To say they're automatically better than low-res graphics is idiotic nonsense. Personally, I love pixel art. I find Progear to be a gorgeous looking game and nicer to look at than the latest triple-A blockbuster like CoD or Gears of War (and I like those games too, just to be clear).

For you to say such things on a forum for shmup enthusiasts - and by extension; arcade enthusiasts - I have to assume you're just trolling for attention, although that's not to say I don't think you're actually stupid enough to believe what you wrote, of course.

[Illyrian]

You seem angry.

OBVIOUSLY it is just my opinion, and you're entitled to have whatever opinion you like.

If you actually want to try and say that a game like progear is graphically comparable to any modern game then you do need to get your eyes checked.

For the record, Mushi HD is one of the most gorgeous games I've played since Bastion, but then again that is because they dropped the crappy sprites and gave it the proper HD treatment. Here's hoping if they ever port other games like Dodonpachi etc. from this point onwards they do the same thing.

[FIL]

I prefer the shadow mask/aperture filters myself.

[Skykid]

If you actually want to try and say that a game like progear is graphically comparable to any modern game then you do need to get your eyes checked.

I think your glasses have steamed up again.

[njiska]

For the record, Mushi HD is one of the most gorgeous games I've played since Bastion, but then again that is because they dropped the crappy sprites and gave it the proper HD treatment. Here's hoping if they ever port other games like Dodonpachi etc. from this point onwards they do the same thing.

Um, they're still sprites in Mushi HD (as the are in BlazBlue and everything else 2D you've mentioned), they're just higher resolution. More to the point, they're still fairly low resolution compared to modern 2D games. I think the big problem we're getting into here, as always, is semantics and personal taste. You're saying they're graphically better, but that sentence on its own means absolutely nothing. Are we talking graphic fidelity? Because if that's the case than anything higher resolution is automatically better because it allows for more detail. However. if we're taking better from a "more pleasing to look at" standpoint, than nothing is automatic as all art is 100% subjective. Nothing is definably "better" than anything else in that scenario.

My problem with your argument is that you seem to be blending the two; taking the stance that newer is better because it's HD (higher resolution), but then saying one of the most beautiful games is one that is lower resolution and less detailed than the one you positively compare it too (the backgrounds are even the original resolution). That's also ignoring the display medium, which is important because lower resolution sprites look very sharp and crisp on the displays they were intended for, but like absolute shit on modern LCDs. This is also ignoring the fact that in today's world beauty can be defeated by something as simple as a bad scaler.

I prefer the shadow mask/aperture filters myself.

Aperture grille FTW!

[Illyrian]

Skykid: it looks shit, sorry

njiska: i already said blazblue was a rare exception to the rule. And Mushi HD's models don't look like sprites, they look properly done. And that game's presentation in general is awesome.

[njiska]

Skykid: it looks shit, sorry

njiska: i already said blazblue was a rare exception to the rule. And Mushi HD's models don't look like sprites, they look properly done. And that game's presentation in general is awesome.

Ok, do you know what a sprite is? Because Bastion is also a Sprite game. Do you just hate anything that isn't based off a 3D model? I'm really not understanding your definitions.

[Illyrian]

Bastion also doesn't look like it's made with sprites, which is the point man. It isn't made only with sprites, there are lots of gorgeous predrawn, crisp and colourful backgrounds and portraits in it as well

[dan76]

Skykid: it looks shit, sorry

Seek medical attention as soon as possible.

[louisg]

I think Illyrian is hazy on what a sprite is and it sounds to me that it's coming down to personal preference (hand-drawn/cartooned looking 2d art vs. "pixeled" computer art). I'd also add that technical specs and what looks pleasing are two separate things. For example, Galaga is a lot worse than Pit Fighter from a number crunching perspective. But, IMO, it looks a lot better.

Let's muddy the waters a bit. What about 2d computer games? Many games on the PC for example are low res and low color, but they were always designed for a fairly crisp monitor. I've been revisiting Duke 1 and 2 for instance, and I don't believe I ever saw those on a system with scanlines (I got into IBM PCs with VGA, and I believe those always doubled the scanlines, didn't they? Did proper EGA/CGA do that too?)

[Fudoh]

CGA is basically 15khz RGB, so yes, they had heavy scanlines. EGA didn't have classic scanlines and 320x200 VGA neither (as you mentioned yourself).

[Vamos]

Skykid: it looks shit, sorry

you just went Full retard .

[shmuppyLove]

Read this, please

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sprite_%28 ... raphics%29

I think where you're getting confused is in thinking that sprite = 3D, which is not the case. Sprites can be generated from a number of different sources, including hand-drawn pixel art.

To my mind, the reason why the 3D pre-rendered sprites in things like Mushi don't look as good as pixel-art or other types of 2D-source sprites is the initial resolution vs the target resolution.

If you know that your game's target resolution is going to be 320x240, you'll design and create your artwork based on that. When you're working with raw pixels in a bitmap/raster application, you'd be working (hopefully) at the target resolution, in order to get the best fidelity possible. Working at a higher resolution then shrinking will destroy a lot of finer detail and make a lot of extra work for you, and your sprites will look like ass.

If you're modelling your sprites using 3D modelling, it's way more complicated. 3D models don't really have a "resolution" per se, or I guess the resolution is essentially infinite? It's really only once the model is textured and then rendered to a target file or display that it has a "resolution". And similar to using a 2D source, if the source has a lot of fine detail in it, when you shrink it down to your target resolution, you'll lose all of that detail and end up with a chunky blocky mess.

Anyway, this post turned out longer than I expected, and I'm not an expert on this stuff or anything so someone will probably jump on something I've said, which is fine I won't be offended And I haven't related it at all to scanlines, which is really the topic of the thread. So, yeah ...