XRGB-mini Framemeister

[RGB32E]

Has to do with the output config. There was a bug on the previous FW with the output defaulting to 4:2:2. To my knowledge the Marvell does it's internal processing at 10-bit in 4:2:2.

I don't know if there are ways in which the Mini can retain 4:4:4 resolution of the source. We musn't forget that Micomsoft uses an additional FPGA for 240p processing, so it's very well possible that the input gets sampled at full color resolution and prescaled before it gets passed into the Marvell. For the HD inputs it would be easy to test it with a 360 connected via HDMI and some static color/checkerboard testpattern.

I'm still VERY interested to see how they managed to get that 31khz PCB running and how the color resolution will be managed on VGA sources.

According to Twitter, one of the HW engineers at Micomsoft used a ROOTY to convert RGBHV to RGBS, and just fed that into the RGB In on the mini. Simple enough!

http://micomsoft.co.jp/rooty.htm



See the SYNC switch on the front right corner?!

Hence, if you want VGA/RGBHV inputs on your XRGB-mini, pick up a ROOTY and a HDDB15 to MDIN8 cable! (like the one I built and posted earlier in this thread)

[Fudoh]

Should work with any Extron interface then - a simple RGBHV to RGBs conversion. So who's gonna try first ??

[alamone]

You could also use an Extron SC-210 to convert to-and-from CSYNC and separate sync.
They're dirt cheap on fleabay (I see one BIN for $15), although they use BNCs instead of VGA ports.
Nothing a BNC-to-VGA converter cable won't fix.

[TurboCro]

I don't think I need to do the bypass mod but this site does mention the AV out on the NeoGeo has a dirty sync, and I may need to use a sync cleaner. Any ideas on what that is?

Which board revision are you?

http://www.assemblergames.com/forums/sh ... -revisions

[Konsolkongen]

Should work with any Extron interface then - a simple RGBHV to RGBs conversion. So who's gonna try first ??

I think we'll need the new firmware that's coming this week. It should support "special signal" as well as PAL

[BuckoA51]

PAL support? Ha typical that this should be added right after I buy an Optoma to use with my XRGB3

[Konsolkongen]

Yep that's what one of the engineers wrote me in an email. I'm pretty surprised that they have started adding support for PAL so soon. I'm very curious as to how well it will work.

[Shining]

btw the link to the list again: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub ... utput=html

Got another one today. You can go ahead and add UN316106878 to the list as a US 1CHIP-01. Now i'm all set

[chadti99]

I don't think I need to do the bypass mod but this site does mention the AV out on the NeoGeo has a dirty sync, and I may need to use a sync cleaner. Any ideas on what that is?

Which board revision are you?

http://www.assemblergames.com/forums/sh ... -revisions

I think the 14,000 unit is a 3-6

So I picked up a couple more AES systems to test with and a ~90,000 serial Japanese AES has absolutely no sync issues. I also picked up another US AES with ~100,000 serial and it has the same sync issue as the ~14,000 serial US AES unit. So maybe it has something to do with the extra shielding and ground lead on the US systems that is causing the issue or maybe not, my sample size is really too small to tell. I will say that besides the whole sync issue, RGB looks great on all three systems, no horizontal banding that many report.

I'll just stick with the Japanese unit for now.

[TurboCro]

I don't think I need to do the bypass mod but this site does mention the AV out on the NeoGeo has a dirty sync, and I may need to use a sync cleaner. Any ideas on what that is?

Which board revision are you?

http://www.assemblergames.com/forums/sh ... -revisions

I think the 14,000 unit is a 3-6

So I picked up a couple more AES systems to test with and a ~90,000 serial Japanese AES has absolutely no sync issues. I also picked up another US AES with ~100,000 serial and it has the same sync issue as the ~14,000 serial US AES unit. So maybe it has something to do with the extra shielding and ground lead on the US systems that is causing the issue or maybe not, my sample size is really too small to tell. I will say that besides the whole sync issue, RGB looks great on all three systems, no horizontal banding that many report.

I'll just stick with the Japanese unit for now.

Serial number sounds low for a 3-6, although it could have been recased. 3-6 typically don't have sync issues, they have problems with vertical lines which can be easily removed by cutting 3 traces. You don't have to open up your AES to check the board revision, just a flashlight and look at the cart slot from the left side. It's in that link I posted. Look under Know your board revision.

http://www.jamma-nation-x.com/jammax/tutorials.html

If it's purely a sync issue, the sync booster sold by retro console accessories should suit you just fine.

[chadti99]

Serial number sounds low for a 3-6, although it could have been recased. 3-6 typically don't have sync issues, they have problems with vertical lines which can be easily removed by cutting 3 traces. You don't have to open up your AES to check the board revision, just a flashlight and look at the cart slot from the left side. It's in that link I posted. Look under Know your board revision.

http://www.jamma-nation-x.com/jammax/tutorials.html

If it's purely a sync issue, the sync booster sold by retro console accessories should suit you just fine.

There is no number so it is a first generation, for some reason I had 3-6 stuck in my head. I'll check the other boards this evening. Thanks for your help.

[alamone]

New beta firmware is out! Go get now!
http://www.micomsoft.co.jp/xrgb-mini.htm

[Zapf]

How do you tell at what date it comes "out of beta" (like when 1.05 came out)

[Konsolkongen]

Yes full PAL support apparently. I was only expecting 50Hz support on the inputs with framerate conversion to 60Hz output. Very nice indeed, will test this out immediately

[Konsolkongen]

Warning. The new firmware fucks up the english menus. I can only get Japanese to work

I have tried the Saturn and MegaDrive shortly and 50Hz does indeed work However it's not as flawless as one could have hoped.

Scanlines are messed up of course, due to the larger resolution of the PAL signal. Just one more reason for Micomsoft to fix their scaling engine.
Image is brighter when receiving a 50Hz signal rather than a 60Hz. There is also a small amount of flickering to be seen when using 50Hz.
Using the scroll test in the 240p Test Suite on MegaDrive there are noticeable stuttering, even though I'm using 720p50 output and V-lock.

Need to try PS2, Wii, Gamecube and SNES later. I have taken some pictures of the problems, I will up them later.

[Fudoh]

I can't test the new FW until early next week. Can somebody try the new RGB sync option with a previously problematic source (PSOne, NG AES or something...) ?

[Konsolkongen]

Do you know where it's located in the menus? I just noticed sync dropouts in the intro to Golden Axe III on the MegaDrive last night. That is the first time I have ever seen dropouts on the MegaDrive using the Mini, but it only happens in that game and during the intro (with the scrolling logo).

EDIT: I found it. It's (something)LEVEL in the bottom of one of the menus.

EDIT2 : Not really sure how this works. With MegaDrive the default value is 9 and I have no more dropouts Didn't even need to change anything.

On a more positive note all 50Hz output resolutions work perfectly on my TV. 576p, 720p50, 1080i50 and 1080p50
Also you can hold the UP button the Mini while powering it on to switch to the 60Hz output of the same resolution it seems. I.e I was in 720p50, turned off the unit. Pressed UP while powering it on and it automatically switched to 720p60. That's pretty nice
Holding DOWN while powering on sets the Mini to 50Hz output

[Hamburglar]

Just got myself a 1CHIP SNES. Using it with my XRGB Mini it looks way better than the other big SNES systems, but the SNES Jrstill looks the best. This is mostly because of the thick vertical bar still present in the model 1 SNES.

My serial number begins with a u31 if it helps.

I wish the 1CHIP looked as good as the SNES Jr. I really do.

[BuckoA51]

Oh the stuttering is a shame! Mind you I get stuttering at 60hz on my current setup with the Genesis but not at 50, think its the slightly out of spec Genesis refresh rate to blame.

[Konsolkongen]

Oh the stuttering is a shame! Mind you I get stuttering at 60hz on my current setup with the Genesis but not at 50, think its the slightly out of spec Genesis refresh rate to blame.

Of course it might be the MegaDrive in 50hz. I do have rock solid, stutter-free motion when using it in 60Hz though. A shame that 240p test suite doesn't exist for Super Nintendo

Haven't had time to test any other systems in 50Hz, sorry

[Artemio]

Of course it might be the MegaDrive in 50hz. I do have rock solid, stutter-free motion when using it in 60Hz though. A shame that 240p test suite doesn't exist for Super Nintendo

Someday my friend, some day... =)

BTW, I need to test how the new firmware behaves in my setup. A few months back I developed a new test with the help of Fudoh, to test lag passively. Unfortunately I found out that in my TV HDMI input from the Mini has 7 frames of lag, whereas via VGA I have 0. This is done using a Nomad running the test, while using the RGB out though the scaler and then taking a picture. Of course this was tested against an arcade monitor, where no lag is present (the modded Nomad screen I have has 1 frame lag).

Here are my results form back then.. Hope to redo the tests this weekend, and also to do them against a different TV, a newer one, that hopefully has better HDMI response.

Also, as the test results demonstrate in my setup, I have way less lag via DVI... Need to test on newer tvs indeed.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc ... ENQbnd6OGc

At the time I used an SDI-CRT to test how much lag the Mini had, but unfortunately the monitor couldn't sync to it directly by using an HDMI-SDI converter.. so I had to use the EDGE in between to accomplish that.

[Konsolkongen]

Damn that's a lot of input lag :/

Sounds cool about the SNES version of 240p Test Suite. Have you thought about doing and selling a MVS version?

[Artemio]

Damn that's a lot of input lag :/

Sounds cool about the SNES version of 240p Test Suite. Have you thought about doing and selling a MVS version?

Don't want to derail this thread, was just mentioning the suite since the feature was in topic with the mini... but answering to your question, I have considered porting it to the Neo.. would love that, but I don't have the means to test it in hardware... much less to sell such a thing.

[Konsolkongen]

Haha I was joking a little, but cool that you have considered it

RGB32E was right. The stuttering and also brighter picture only seem to happen when using the Sega consoles in 50Hz. SNES in 50Hz appears stutter-free and the brightness is correct as well. Mini says 49.99Hz when using the SNES in 50Hz mode.

Here is MegaDrive in 50Hz:


Notice this gray bar on the left hand side of the image. It's supposed to be all black, but because of the increased brightness it appears gray:


MegaDrive in 60Hz (like we know and love it!):


And here there is no gray border because of the correct brightness:


Both Saturn and MegaDrive stutters in 50Hz. With both systems set to 50Hz the Mini says 50.26Hz for the Saturn and 50.15Hz for the MegaDrive. Both are Japanese systems and completely stutter-free in 60Hz mode.

I'm using RGB for these 3 systems. I have my PS2 connected (via component) now and in 50Hz. The Mini says 49.99Hz when using the PS2 in 50Hz (just like the SNES). The brightness seems correct, and though I have no good way to test for stuttering on the PS2 tonight, it seems fine

[BuckoA51]

That is a real shame, I don't see why stuttering should be present with V-Sync lock. You didn't get any of those dreaded white lines across the image then? That I believe is symptomatic of a frame locked output that the TV cannot handle. Maybe there are bugs with frame lock and certain 50hz sources that will eventually get fixed.

Yeah the more system the awesome 240p test suite gets ported to the better! Over on the English Amiga board they were very impressed with the 240p test suite too, I was hoping someone would port it to the Amiga, since Amiga dev tools tend to be pretty good.

[Konsolkongen]

That is a real shame, I don't see why stuttering should be present with V-Sync lock. You didn't get any of those dreaded white lines across the image then? That I believe is symptomatic of a frame locked output that the TV cannot handle. Maybe there are bugs with frame lock and certain 50hz sources that will eventually get fixed.

No white lines. The picture is fine besides it being much brighter for some reason. I'm guessing it's a bug of some sort that appears when the refresh exceeds 50.00Hz, since SNES and PS2 at 49.99 seems to be working perfectly

My SNES and NES runs at a 60.08Hz refresh-rate when in 60Hz and also appear totally stutter-free

[cfx]

.

[shinjig]

Finally got my xrgb-mini. Updated the firmware to 1.06 but will probably downgrade back down to 1.05 for english menus (I have no PAL items so the 1.06 didn't really offer me anything from what I can tell).

I have yet to test it out but for the most part I would likely be dealing with cga sources for my older consoles and arcade boards. I also have some naomi 1 games and would be interested in using the VGA output if possible. So the exept above about some HW employees from micromsoft feeding the mini a VGA source intregues me. To that end I've ordered an extron 210 device with the hopes of being able to feed it VGA signals from the naomi hardware (and possibly the PS2 since the extron 210 can strip the green from the signal). I'll likely have to purchase two vga to bnc cable adapters and have to create a vga to 8 pin mini din adapter. However I'm unaware of what the pinout is for this 8 pin mini din port and micromsoft does not have a pinout readily available on their website from what I can tell. So does someone know what the pinout for such a port is (RGB32E has made some cables so he should be aware of such a pinout) so I can attempt to craft a cable. Unless one of you has a spare VGA to 8 pin mini din already made that I could purchase (possibly a 8 din cable from the xsync1 to the 8 pin mini din on the FM) lol.

To that point, if I were to create a VGA adapter to 8 pin mini din, I would lose the audio (in regards to the audio normally being present in the scart cable which is then fed to the 8 pin mini din port). Is there someplace else that I would be able to plug in the audio again so that it'll be outputted along with the video on the hdmi cable? Or should I not bother and just route the audio directly to whatever audio solution that I may have in my setup?

[kerframil]

So does someone know what the pinout for such a port is (RGB32E has made some cables so he should be aware of such a pinout) so I can attempt to craft a cable.

Pinout here: http://playoffline.wordpress.com/cable/xrgb-mini/

[BuckoA51]

Since the Mini only has one RGB input could the new UMSA be used to connect 31khz VGA devices to a SCART switch and then from there into the mini, for instance one SCART switch might contain Dreamcast via UMSA, SNES, Genesis, PC engine?

Is there a setting to independently scale the horizontal and vertical output, to fix aspect ratio for certain things?

I asked something similar a while back, I believe you need something like the DVDO Edge to do that.