Dell U2312HM - 0.6 ms input lag

[unGDLK]

If anyone needs a new monitor, the Dell U2312HM has an IPS panel with an average input lag of 0.6 ms (16 ms = 1 frame). Since it has an IPS panel, the viewing angles are good so it will look good in tate mode.

http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/dell_u2312hm.htm

[Fudoh]

And the 2412 is just as fast and is 16:10 which means a larger playing area for 4:3 games. (Well technically the 2412 has a little more than half a frame of delay, but that's really not noticeable).

[Blackbird]

If you do decide to buy a U2312 from Dell, use this coupon code at checkout: ZXP20F740G$W11

You'll save 15%, bringing total cost to something like 272 USD. The code works for any monitor, as far as I know, so if you want a different one, spam away with that code and save a little cash.

Regarding the topic, the 2412 actually has 9.4ms lag - about half a frame.

2412 Review - Input Lag

Still a good result, and I don't think anyone would actually notice in practice. They're both good monitors - which one you get would probably depend on your budget =P.

Having read about many IPS panels, I think that ASUS and Dell probably make the best gaming-oriented IPS panels (on paper). They have less ghosting/trailing from response time compared to other IPS panels, and have good to excellent input lag. NEC is not bad, but there's more trailing. Take this with a grain of salt, though - I haven't had a chance to examine any in person, and it may be that none of this would actually bother an average user.

I'm really waiting for a review of the ASUS PA238Q. It's comparable to the U2312, but ASUS typically does the best job of reducing trailing, and it's potentially less expensive. Have heard a lot of worrying reports about backlight bleed, though. I'm waiting for more detailed reviews before I take the plunge.

[Zapf]

SRK remade their lag thread and has a pretty decent list of sub 1 frame monitors/tvs now. Unfortunately none of the TVs are 2011 models

Dell U2312HM - 0.6ms input lag e-IPS 23" 1920x1080

BenQ XL2410T - 5.6ms input lag (Instant = On) TN Film 120Hz 24" 1920x1080

LG IPS231P - 6.9ms input lag (user mode) e-IPS 23" 1920x1080

ASUS MS246H - 6.9ms input lag TN Film 24" 1920x1080

ASUS VE228H - 7ms input lag TN Film 22" 1920x1080

Samsung SM245B - 7.5ms input lag TN Film 24" 1920x1200

Hazro HZ30W - 7.5ms input lag S-IPS 30" 2560x1600

Hazro HZ26Wi - 7.5ms input lag H-IPS 26" 1920x1200

NEC EA232WMi - 8.1ms input lag e-IPS 23" 1920x1080

ASUS VH236H - 8.3ms input lag (game mode) TN Film 23" 1920x1080 (A.K.A EVO MONITOR)

Hazro HZ27WC - 8.8ms input lag H-IPS 27" 2560x1440

NEC EA231WMi - 8.8ms input lag e-IPS 23" 1920x1080

LG L227WT - 9.4ms input lag TN Film 22" 1680x1050

Viewsonic VX2739wm - 9.4ms input lag TN Film 27" 1920x1080

Dell U2412M - 9.4ms input lag e-IPS 24" 1920x1200

HP ZR24W - 10ms input lag e-IPS 24" 1920x1200

Samsung F2380 - 10.6ms input lag cPVA 23" 1920x1080

Dell U2311H - 10.6ms input lag e-IPS 23" 1920x1080

Hazro HZ27WB - 11.3ms input lag H-IPS 27" 2560x1440

Dell U2410 - 14.4ms input lag (Game mode) H-IPS 24" 1920x1200

Hazro HZ30Wi - 14.4ms input lag H-IPS 30" 2560x1600

Samsung 2233RZ - 15ms input lag TN Film 22" 1680x1050

ASUS ML239H - 15ms input lag e-IPS 23" 1920x1080

Dell U2211H - 15.6ms e-IPS 22" 1920x1080

[Blackbird]

Could you link to that thread? Would be interested to read about the HDTVs as well.

[unGDLK]

Here: http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.php?th ... se.145141/

[Elixir]

Can the U2312HM be angled while rotated? I've actually thought about getting one of these before, same model, but I don't know whether to opt for one of these, or the Evo monitors.

Or perhaps I should ask, would it be worth buying one of these if my intentions were to permanently have the screen rotated?

The U2312HM is $239.10 USD here with discount.

[Blackbird]

The U2312 is on sale today for 60 dollars off. Should I jump on this? Tempting, but I have heard reports of electronic buzz from this monitor, which really annoys me when it's present. On the other hand, the ASUS PA238Q might have blacklight bleed, which also sucks. Hmmm =/.

[StarCreator]

I'm using a U2311H (which the U2312HM is a refresh of) and I couldn't be happier with it. If I hadn't already tapped out my luxury budget several times over this season I'd be jumping on one of these and go dual monitor.

[gray117]

...don't know whether to opt for one of these, or the Evo monitors....
.

Given tate-i-ness evo probably wouldn't be the best choice - tn panel - it probably holds up fairly well to viewing angles but you're most likely going to be better off with something else.

[Zapf]

Apparently prad.de has a much better way of testing input latency now, using oscilliscopes.
http://www.prad.de/en/monitore/specials ... utlag.html

They redid a test for the LG Flatron IPS231P and got a much different result than tftcentral (though I guess with this testing method, you have to actually factor in response time as well?) http://www.prad.de/en/monitore/review/2 ... art15.html

Also, this is supposedly a much more accurate test when doing the current methods of testing
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1423433

[panzeroceania]

so the Dell U2312HM has been reranked on Shoryuken at a higher lag rate eh? so the least lagging display they list now is this:

Dell S2330MX - 3.8ms input lag TN Film 23" 1920x1080

[Zapf]

8.3 is still very respectable, and dell's TN monitor is probably gonna look a lot worse.

When did they actually change that number?

[Fudoh]

Likely when the PRAD review was released versus the earlier review on TFTcentral. At the time of the reviews, TFTCentral seems to have taken the raw input delay, while PRAD adds the panel's reaction/response time (to give a more subjective delay time).

[Ed Oscuro]

It's a shame it's 3 inches smaller than the Planar PX2611W - otherwise I think this new screen mops up my model (which is pretty respectable itself with only 16ms input lag, or somewhere around a frame of lag), including on price!

[panzeroceania]

I have a vague understanding of the different kinds of LCD, but could anyone break down how they compare quality-wise in most cases?

like

TFT, TN, AFFS, VA, MVA, A-MVA, S-MVA, PVA, S-PVA ASV, PLS, IPS, S-IPS, AS-IPS, IPS-PRO, H-IPS, E-IPS, P-IPS, AH-IPS etc. etc. etc.

From what I understand some form of IPS is generally the best if you have to get an LCD instead of a CRT, LCoS, OLED, PDP, Laser TV, DLP, SED, FED, or other.

is that correct? IPS is generally the best quality type of LCD Display? What kinds of IPS panel would rank near the top?

In that list of low lag monitors, of the ones that were labelled IPS, here are the least laggy ones

LG IPS231P - 6.9ms input lag (user mode) e-IPS 23" 1920x1080
Hazro HZ30W - 7.5ms input lag S-IPS 30" 2560x1600
Hazro HZ26Wi - 7.5ms input lag H-IPS 26" 1920x1200
NEC EA232WMi - 8.1ms input lag e-IPS 23" 1920x1080
Dell U2311H - 8.2ms input lag e-IPS 23" 1920x1080

I'm assuming of these the LG or the NEC would probably have the best picture quality.

all those were faster than the EVO monitor, and then there are also these

Hazro HZ27WC - 8.8ms input lag H-IPS 27" 2560x1440
NEC EA231WMi - 8.8ms input lag e-IPS 23" 1920x1080
Asus PA238Q - 8.9ms input lag P-IPS 23" 1920x1080p (Factory Setting)
Dell U2312HM - 9.3ms input lag e-IPS 23" 1920x1080
Dell U2412M - 9.4ms input lag e-IPS 24" 1920x1200
HP ZR24W - 10ms input lag e-IPS 24" 1920x1200
Dell U2311H - 10.6ms input lag e-IPS 23" 1920x1080
HP ZR30W - 11.26ms input lag S-IPS 30" 2560 x 1600
Hazro HZ27WB - 11.3ms input lag H-IPS 27" 2560x1440
Apple 27" Cinema Display - 12.73ms input lag IPS 27" 2560x1440 (Late 2010 model)

I wonder between all of those, how the picture quality compares, it would feel so wrong playing games on an Apple Display, heh, still pretty respectable input lag.

[Fudoh]

For quality VA is better than IPS, but VA is very expensive and I can't think of any really fast VA displays. IPS are just starting to get cheaper. I would always chose the newer displays over the old ones. From all the ones listed the Dell 2312 and 2412 are the best choices. Good looking, easy tate, good upscaling, fast response and low lag.

[Ed Oscuro]

Hmm, I just looked up a [H]ardforum thread on the Hazro HZ27WC - $400? For a 27" 25XX x 1600 monitor, and an H-IPS panel? Wow, times sure are different. Suddenly I feel less worried about display technology going forward.

[Rupert H]

Any idea which way those Dell monitors tate? I have a rotatable HP monitor that I'm perfectly happy with, except for the fact it will only tate clockwise. A real bummer when nearly half of the Dreamcast shmups I own only have the option for anti-clockwise tate.

[angryswede]

Any idea which way those Dell monitors tate? I have a rotatable HP monitor that I'm perfectly happy with, except for the fact it will only tate clockwise. A real bummer when nearly half of the Dreamcast shmups I own only have the option for anti-clockwise tate.

I asked about my 2209wa last year. Never got it to rotate ccw and ended up with a new stand instead.

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=38063

[Rupert H]

Yeah, I looked into switching the mechanism but I can't find a way into it.

Cheers for the link.

[RGB32E]

I'm very curious to see what the input lag is with the soon to be shipping Panasonic TC-L55WT50 - http://shop.panasonic.com/shop/model/TC-L55WT50

It has a "1080p Pure Direct Mode" so that full color bandwith from the source is actually displayed! Not sure how this will work out in practice (e.g. with XRGB-mini), but it seems like a promising feature for TV sized "high-end" gaming. This TV has Panasonic's latest IPS panel. 55" is a new size for their IPS panels and I don't believe they're outsourcing IPS panels from LG! From the recent HDGuru article about the WT50, it looks like this will have a wide viewing angle (for a LCD LED-edge lit) and really low black level - http://hdguru.com/panasonic-2012-tc-l55 ... view/7619/

[Fudoh]

The Marvell processor in the Mini operates in 4:2:2 mode, just like any other VP on the market.

[RGB32E]

The Marvell processor in the Mini operates in 4:2:2 mode, just like any other VP on the market.

Meh... In any case, I'm looking forward to trying the FM in 24-bit and deep color modes with the WT50 in "pure direct/YUV444" mode!

[Fudoh]

The Mini should be limited to 4:2:2 in DC mode. In general I would prefer 8-bit RGB 4:4:4 to 10 or 12-bit 4:2:2, but due to the limitation in the processing stage, 4:4:4 RGB would just be upsampled as well.

[alamone]

The 2209WA, the 2312HM, the 2211 and most of the other recent Dell Ultrasharps
rotate clockwise, but it's easy to simply unscrew the middle square plate (4 screws in the middle),
rotate it, and re-screw it in so that the stand rotates counter-clockwise. I've done this with
all my Dell monitors.

[panzeroceania]

a bit off topic but since we are discussing 4:2:2 vs 4:4:4

are there any RGB video capture cards or upscaler + HDMI capture devices that capture 8bit or 10bit 4:4:4? or do all of them have a 4:2:2 limiting factor somewhere in the chain

PMS Deluxe (sweetspot)
Micomsoft SC-500N1
Micomsoft X-RGB w/ Blackmagic-Design

etc.

[Fudoh]

No idea about the 500N1.

The "larger" Blackmagic units can record in RGB or YUV 4:4:4, both 8 and 10-bit, but I don't know of any device which could take a XRGB's VGA output and convert it to the proper HDMI Signal without running through a processor limited to 4:2:2.

On the other hand, in which codec would eventually you store your files without going down to 4:2:2 or even 4:2:0 ?

[RGB32E]

No idea about the 500N1.

The "larger" Blackmagic units can record in RGB or YUV 4:4:4, both 8 and 10-bit, but I don't know of any device which could take a XRGB's VGA output and convert it to the proper HDMI Signal without running through a processor limited to 4:2:2.

On the other hand, in which codec would eventually you store your files without going down to 4:2:2 or even 4:2:0 ?

What was that blurb about with the mini v1.05 to do with 4:4:4? There's absolutely no way the mini can maintain 4:4:4 through it's pipeline?

[Fudoh]

Has to do with the output config. There was a bug on the previous FW with the output defaulting to 4:2:2. To my knowledge the Marvell does it's internal processing at 10-bit in 4:2:2.

I don't know if there are ways in which the Mini can retain 4:4:4 resolution of the source. We musn't forget that Micomsoft uses an additional FPGA for 240p processing, so it's very well possible that the input gets sampled at full color resolution and prescaled before it gets passed into the Marvell. For the HD inputs it would be easy to test it with a 360 connected via HDMI and some static color/checkerboard testpattern.

I'm still VERY interested to see how they managed to get that 31khz PCB running and how the color resolution will be managed on VGA sources.