FEZ is Boring, Buggy, Badly Designed Bullshit

[szycag]

Is there any way to hold the gaming journalist establishment accountable for overrating this game? How do we speak up and tell these people this isn't what we want and that we hate being pandered to with this frivolous bullshit?

[Moniker]

Is there any way to hold the gaming journalist establishment accountable for overrating this game? How do we speak up and tell these people this isn't what we want and that we hate being pandered to with this frivolous bullshit?

You could always troll the IGN review comments. That seems to work.

[TrevHead (TVR)]

I think Fish been a douche actually did himself a favor, as the east-west debate has totally shrowded over any legit criticism, and those who do are labelled as Fish haters.

Look at the reader reviews on Metacritic, most of the low scores seem genuine, but the white knighters have debunked them while putting in their own 10/10s. I know metacritic removes 0 score reviewbombings but they should also do the same with 10s that are submitted to influence the aggregate score

[BareKnuckleRoo]

So, apparently one of the examples of this game's 'great' puzzles is one where there's an event tied to the actual time in real life (instead of using an in-game timer you can manipulate by sleeping or something). This results in wonderful cases of people having to wake up at 4am just in order to solve it or having to go offline to fuck around with their Xbox 360's time settings so that they can solve the puzzle at an hour they're actually awake. However, if you do this it they don't count on the leaderboards when you get them cause you're offline (if you give a shit about that). People are also reporting that particular puzzle room is glitching (to the point where framerate drops to like 1).

I know people complain that old text adventure games by Infocom are obtuse/hard to solve, but at least those aren't badly made to the point of being unenjoyable.

[Friendly]

Thread title updated to aptly reflect the 3 Bs of Fez.

[stryc9]

Digging the appended thread title over here

[ancestral-knowledge]

Fez, Spelunky, VVVVVV, KNYTT STORIES, BRAID, SEIKLUS, FLOWER, MINECRAFT all fucking suck... and i have played everyone of them for a couple of hours. I hate them. I hate them so much for wasting my time. HATE!

[trap15]

Fez, Spelunky, VVVVVV, KNYTT STORIES, BRAID, SEIKLUS, FLOWER, MINECRAFT all fucking suck... and i have played everyone of them for a couple of hours. I hate them. I hate them so much for wasting my time. HATE!

QFT

[Udderdude]

I know people complain that old text adventure games by Infocom are obtuse/hard to solve, but at least those aren't badly made to the point of being unenjoyable.

I read some more of the threads on the gameFAQs board there. It really does seem like they took a lot of the puzzle ideas from Myst. I'm not sure Myst: The Platformer is something that ever should have been made .. it just doesn't make any sense to mix the two except to get "OMG SO BRILLIANT" comments from indies >_>

Not to mention, the style, music and atmosphere of the Myst games is entirely different than the day-glow cave story ripoff of FEZ. Mixing the two seems even more bizzare considering this.

I'm not sure why the game has so many technical issues either, they should have had plenty of time in 5 years to make it rock solid. Blah.

[Vyxx]

Fez, Spelunky, VVVVVV, KNYTT STORIES, BRAID, SEIKLUS, FLOWER, MINECRAFT all fucking suck... and i have played everyone of them for a couple of hours. I hate them. I hate them so much for wasting my time. HATE!

I agree for the most part, although I did love Braid >_>

[szycag]

Why is Spelunky anywhere near that list of games?

[Udderdude]

Why is Spelunky anywhere near that list of games?

It gets lumped in with them for being a popular indie platformer. Personally, I tried Spelunky and couldn't get used to the controls, so I gave up on it. The biggest problem with it, IMO, is that platformers tend to have well designed levels to support their gameplay elements, and randomly generated levels just don't have the same effect.

[RNGmaster]

I personally love VVVVVV *shrug*. I don't see what anyone could have against it.

[szycag]

I loved Spelunky with my Saturn pad. Controlling the character probably is a little frustrating, but I always had Spelunker in the back of my mind when I played and the controls are like butter compared to that. I'd typically agree that a platformer is only as good as it's level design, but Spelunky is kind of different to me. The level seeder does a good (enough) job and with the variety of hazards, choosing where to destroy the terrain with bombs, and treasure vs. time, it never seemed arbitrary to me.

It's far from a perfect game and I don't mind people trashing it, but putting it in the same bin as that other crap isn't right. At the very least it has what a good game needs, risk and reward. I'd say Spelunky is the anti Fez really. We could certainly use more devs like Derek Yu than Phil Fish. Oh, and more Udderdudes of course. Anyways, the XBLA version can't come soon enough. Take my money.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

The default keyboard controls for Spelunky suck, I changed them pretty much immediately. Only issue I have is that you can't get rid of the hold attack = run thing, even though you can bind a separate run key (accidentally hold attack too long and you shoot off, hah). Otherwise, the controls work quite well for quickly zipping through levels when you know generally how to recognize the path that goes down, etc. Really, if you can get a set of climbing gloves or a cape early on, getting around becomes super easy by comparison.

There's also that cool scoring trick where you can wait until the ghost appears in a level and lead him around through gems to convert them to diamonds! Clever stuff.

it just doesn't make any sense to mix the two except to get "OMG SO BRILLIANT" comments from indies >_>

The worst part is the number of review sites praising its platforming elements. I even read one where it claimed Fez was the 'heir to Super Mario'. I don't even know how it's a platformer if there's absolutely no penalty or danger anywhere from messing up. In fact, it's actually beneficial to let yourself fall to your death since you respawn where you last touched the ground, and if you fall from high up landing somewhere below just means a climb back up. There doesn't seem to be any kind of a mention of a reward for actively avoiding death, and the platforming/exploration is rather slow compared to something like a Metroid game where you can get items or learn to wall jump in order to get around quickly, or in a unique order (like doing runs without the suits, etc).

Shadow of the Colossus for instance has with relatively little fall damage (and the ability to pump up your health bar quite a lot), but it's still possible to die if you mess up badly so it manages to have a sense of tension when you're scaling a structure even if it's just purely to explore. Fez on the other hand doesn't really motivate you to care whether or not you do badly at the platforming; it's just "oh well, try again" if you fall as you navigate collecting stuff or go from puzzle to puzzle. Doesn't seem like the platforming in Fez feels rewarding at all.

[linko9]

I think VVVVVV is pretty dern good. Nothing at all like Fez... It's like a metroidy platformer with sweet musics.

[Jeneki]

The only version out there is the XBLA version. They got a Microsoft exclusive contract.

Is it still an "indie" game if it got a exclusivity contract? And in XBLA, not even in the indie section?

[Udderdude]

The only version out there is the XBLA version. They got a Microsoft exclusive contract.

Is it still an "indie" game if it got a exclusivity contract? And in XBLA, not even in the indie section?

I pointed out in the IGF 2012 drama thread that by the time it won it's second IGF award, it was definitely not an indie game anymore. It might have started as one, but definitely did not end as one.

In comparison, I'm so indie, I don't have any publishers or distributors and you've probably never heard of me >_>

[Mortificator]

Why is Spelunky anywhere near that list of games?

It gets lumped in with them for being a popular indie platformer. Personally, I tried Spelunky and couldn't get used to the controls, so I gave up on it. The biggest problem with it, IMO, is that platformers tend to have well designed levels to support their gameplay elements, and randomly generated levels just don't have the same effect.

Exactly right. If you could take the great platformers like Castlevania & Mega Man and replace their levels with ones that are randomly designed, they wouldn't be so great.

[StoofooEsq]

I came into Off Topic expecting at least one thread with seething hatred towards Fez and was not disappointed. Visually, the game looks kinda neat, but I had doubts about the gameplay itself that were only confirmed by this thread. From reading on, it's the exactly what I'm not looking for in a game these days.

I think Fish been a douche actually did himself a favor, as the east-west debate has totally shrowded over any legit criticism, and those who do are labelled as Fish haters.

You're right. If anything, his comments are an overall highlight of legitimate opinions of games on the Internet being tossed aside in favor of Japanese/Eastern vs. Western development circlejerks. Most of which, at worst, devolve into polarized nonsense where people spout out /v/-tier shitposting. It's something I find especially close-minded and real stupid at a time where there's still good products coming from both regions, if rarely.

As for Phil Fish himself: You reap what you sow. Although, I feel that he didn't have much ground to stand on to begin with because I didn't know who the hell Phil Fish was in the first place until his comments about Japanese games. And I know I'm not the only one.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

If you could take the great platformers like Castlevania & Mega Man and replace their levels with ones that are randomly designed, they wouldn't be so great.

This isn't a good analogy. In Spelunky, there's a number of different ways to descend areas (bombs to break through walls, hanging over a ledge and working your way down, dropping a rope and climbing down, dropping onto the head of an enemy, etc) that you have actually huge amount of freedom of movement compared to the linearity of a Mega Man game. If you get a pair of climbing gloves or a cape, then you can pretty much sail through levels in a matter of seconds. Once you're in the ice caverns, levels are so open that you have a vast amount of freedom as to how you work your way down to the exit. The randomness is what makes the game so much fun, and it's honestly well done as, like your standard roguelike, part of the game is about discovering all those tricks that make progression easier.

There's even a way of legitimately preventing the ghost from ever appearing as a result of spending over 2 1/2 minutes on a level if you're not speedrunning.

[Drum]

If you could take the great platformers like Castlevania & Mega Man and replace their levels with ones that are randomly designed, they wouldn't be so great.

This isn't a good analogy. In Spelunky, there's a number of different ways to descend areas (bombs to break through walls, hanging over a ledge and working your way down, dropping a rope and climbing down, dropping onto the head of an enemy, etc) that you have actually huge amount of freedom of movement compared to the linearity of a Mega Man game. If you get a pair of climbing gloves or a cape, then you can pretty much sail through levels in a matter of seconds. Once you're in the ice caverns, levels are so open that you have a vast amount of freedom as to how you work your way down to the exit. The randomness is what makes the game so much fun, and it's honestly well done as, like your standard roguelike, part of the game is about discovering all those tricks that make progression easier.

There's even a way of legitimately preventing the ghost from ever appearing as a result of spending over 2 1/2 minutes on a level if you're not speedrunning.

This. It's as daft as bitching out Mr Driller for having randomly generated content. Spelunky isn't a standard platformer, and the gameplay has been designed around the level generation system. Further, the levels are composed of individually hand-built chunks, so it's really a sort of hybrid.

[Cuilan]

Based on my experience with the trial version of Fez, I would say that ilomilo is a much better game for the same price. Fez might be worth getting if it goes on sale for 50% off.

[Udderdude]

I still submit that Spelunky would be improved if it had a seperate game mode with cleverly designed levels in addition to the randomly generated ones.

Anyway, the ZOMG BIG MONOLITH PUZZLE that everyone had been going bananas (hurr) over in FEZ has apparently been solved, and now there's nothing left. A tweet by one of the devs seems to confirm this. Some players are feeling left disappointed that there's not some even greater mystery that might require even more scribbling of numbers on notepads and saying WHAT DOES IT ALL MEAN?! over and over.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/961239-f ... 26?page=41

[BareKnuckleRoo]

I still submit that Spelunky would be improved if it had a seperate game mode with cleverly designed levels in addition to the randomly generated ones.

It does have one. There's some very competently made level sets out there, albeit none from the official developer. Perhaps you'd enjoy playing custom level sets like this one more than the randomized ones in the main game?

To be fair, it's not exactly well advertised in the main game as you have to read the Readme that came with the game to know you can hit F2 to edit levels and F3 to play them.

Some players are feeling left disappointed that there's not some even greater mystery that might require even more scribbling of numbers on notepads and saying WHAT DOES IT ALL MEAN?! over and over.

lol, that's the problem with making a plot too abstract. It can end up being less memorable/rewarding because at the end you're left wondering what the whole point was (or if it was just trying to look 'deep' but really wasn't).

[Udderdude]

lol, that's the problem with making a plot too abstract. It can end up being less memorable/rewarding because at the end you're left wondering what the whole point was (or if it was just trying to look 'deep' but really wasn't).

Yeah, it ends up like much of the rest of the game, feeling shallow and unrewarding. The dev guy's tweet about it was quite pretentious as well. That in addition to the game having so many bugs that people were getting THOSE confused with the actual puzzles, and you have a recipie for lulz soup. >_>



The Tweet in case it gets nuked from orbit for some reason

https://twitter.com/#!/treyher/status/1 ... 6974228480

Congratulations, searchers. It seems your quest is at an end, but the harder one begins now, and it begins with Where, and Why?

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Oh god, that tweet just smacks of pseudo-intellectual bullshit.

[TrevHead (TVR)]

I really enjoyed VVVVV its a good game imo.

Derek Yu was an illustrator before he became a full time indie dev. Aquaria which he made with some other guy is one really pretty 2D game and for an underwater game quite fun. I havnt played Splunky yet as im waiting for the XBLA version which is taking forever to get released (like all "indie" XBLA games). Personally i'd rather see Yu form up with a slightly larger team and have him stick to been an artist, rather than have him solo a project and release just a couple of games in his career.

[BrianC]

I'm disappointed Fez has nothing to do with Moracco Mole or candy dispensers.

[BPzeBanshee]

I wouldn't be putting this in the same category as Braid or Minecraft. Braid's shit outright, Minecraft is pointless wandering (whether this is good enough is subject to taste only, and 2 hours of playtime doesn't cut it), and this Fez is B-B-B-bullshit +.

Isn't this the game with a developer team of over 100+ people or something large anyway? If so I wouldn't even be calling it 'Indie' since we've gone over that definition to death here.