Regarding Roguelikes

[Moniker]

Anyone ever try Triangle Wizard? It's sort of what you'd get if you took a roguelike with a heavy spellcasting focus and gave it real-time combat (WASD/space controls for movement and dodging, mouse to aim/fire). Very tough, but it's a whole lot of fun to try out the ridiculously varied race/class/religion options. Art style is abstract, but otherwise very clean and well done.

Is there any way to manage keybindings? Game seems great, and I've heard great things, but the keys are confusing as all hell. Conforms to basically no genre standard out there. I can't even imagine how you're supposed to go from WASD to function keys to page up to shift+page up, etc with one hand on the mouse. Might make more sense with a numpad, but not much.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Is there any way to manage keybindings? Game seems great, and I've heard great things, but the keys are confusing as all hell. Conforms to basically no genre standard out there. I can't even imagine how you're supposed to go from WASD to function keys to page up to shift+page up, etc with one hand on the mouse. Might make more sense with a numpad, but not much.

Sadly, I'm not aware of a way to change keybindings (might be able to mess with a config file or something, doesn't appear to be an ingame option). Easiest way to play I found was to simply take my hand off the mouse for a second and press whatever button on the numpad I needed; the mouse is used to aim for combat, whereas WASD/space are for evasion/movement, so it's more important you have your hand on WASD at all times to dodge spells. That, and especially to stay the hell out of melee with monsters that rush you; meleeing stuff is a bad idea unless you know what you're doing (or it's the start of a new level and you abuse the temporary invulnerability to rush a group). Taking your hand off the mouse won't prevent you from jumping over a fireball spell whereas you'll be kind of fucked if you have to get out of the way of something and your left hand is messing with the numpad to see what your summon limit is at.

Thankfully, you shouldn't need to mess around with the numpad much during combat situations, especially not equipped items or talents much since the focus is on spells, and maybe hitting PgDn once to display healthbars for the remainder of the game. The Insert key might be needed a few times in combat situations if you want to see if that summon spell has recharged or to take a breather/stock of what you have, but once you learn the letter hotkeys for spells you can often get the hang of quickly hitting the letter of the spell you want with your left hand's index finger.

But yeah, I had to go through the tutorial a few times before I got used to the controls (much like any roguelike, heh). Really, as long as you know how to set your numbered hotkey spells (the mouse wheel scrolls through them), use potions (and use them on allies), Wizard's Flare and monster resummon you should be alright. I'd also hit F5 at the start of the game and disable autopickup (just hit Alt to grab stuff), enable sprinting (right click to run, don't run out of stamina or you won't be able to cast until the grey bar's gone) and perhaps enable friend foe unless you're comfortable recognizing what's what.

There's other cool stuff like persistent casting enchantments/channelling debuffs and whatnot you can learn about too, but if you're playing a class that's more geared towards straight destruction you don't have to worry so much about the more complex stuff and just learn as you play.

[Ed Oscuro]

I'm gonna get me some The Dark Tower and try out the first Etrian Odyssey - why not?

[Moniker]

@BKR - Thanks for the tips. I'll give it another try later on today.

I'm gonna get me some The Dark Tower and try out the first Etrian Odyssey - why not?

Haven't played much Dark Spire or EO1, but EO2&3 are insanely good. Not roguelikes, though.

I shudder to think of playing a permadeath run of an Etrian Odyssey game...

[Ed Oscuro]

That's a fair complaint - my post would have fit better in the Wizardry thread, and I originally intended it for there. Got the two threads confused, sad to say.

[Moniker]

Now that you mention Wizardry, there is a 3D GUI for NetHack (called NetHack3D) that's actually pretty well done. Obviously slows the pace of the game down and isn't really all that practical, but it's damn fun to play around with. IIRC, you can toggle b/w 3D and traditional top-down modes.

[Ed Oscuro]

if there was ever a screenshot intended to make me run screaming into the comforting arms of wizardry, that would be it

hell I haven't even played a wizardry game

[CptRansom]

I've been screwing around with Dungeons of Dredmor a bit. Entertaining for someone like me who simply doesn't have the patience to deal with the depth of something like NetHack (I get super-frustrated just trying to remember the ASCII, let alone the commands).

This thread makes me wish I had given the Wizardry games more of a chance when I was younger. I played too much Final Fantasy crap as a teenager, so when I DID try Wizardry games (specifically 7 and and they kicked my ass I would just give up because they weren't what I expected. Perhaps I should give 7 or 8 another go, assuming I can find my discs (and I can pull myself away from Dark Souls)? =(

[BareKnuckleRoo]

How is it Spelunky hasn't been mentioned yet? It's freeware for Windows and it's pretty awesome for speedruns and stuff (randomly created dungeons as you descend Indiana-Jones like into a cavern about 20 levels or so long).

Fun for high score attacking and whatnot since there's plenty of stupid scoring tricks you can pull off even with the randomness, plenty of neat survival tricks to learn just like any roguelike, and so on. Don't piss off the shopkeepers (unless you know what you're doing!).

[Ruldra]

How is it Spelunky hasn't been mentioned yet? It's freeware for Windows and it's pretty awesome for speedruns and stuff (randomly created dungeons as you descend Indiana-Jones like into a cavern about 20 levels or so long).

We had a massive Spelunky thread back when it was released, we tore the game apart. IIRC moozooh cleared the game in less than 5 minutes.

EDIT: There you go. Very close call with that shopkeeper lol.

[Moniker]

I really like spelunky, myself. In good roguelike dev fashion, Derek Yu released the source sometime ago, and there have been further development efforts since, notably the Spelunky 1.2 project. Likely among them are some balance changes that would make 5 min runs less possible.

http://mossmouth.com/forums/index.php?topic=834.0

I've been screwing around with Dungeons of Dredmor a bit. Entertaining for someone like me who simply doesn't have the patience to deal with the depth of something like NetHack (I get super-frustrated just trying to remember the ASCII, let alone the commands).

I'd recommend switching to Brogue if and when you get tired of Dredmor. It's in ASCII, but done such a gorgeous way, you won't mind. The command set is very minimalistic and very easy to figure. IMO it's the best and most elegant roguelike out there right now.

[Ghegs]

Could be of interest...in the currently on-going Indie Royale bundle one of the games is Hack, Slash, Loot which sure sounds and looks like a roguelike even if the term isn't used anywhere to describe the game. I don't know if it has some indie silliness going on in it, though.

[Moniker]

I have mainly been playing Z.H.P. a fairly obscure rougelike by the makers of Disgaea so expect some great sprites and a lot of sillyness.

I just started playing this. Do you know if there's a "true" roguelike dungeon, where you lose all items/money & progress when entering? At the end, maybe?

It's pretty fun as far as it goes, but I can't really get behind a roguelike where you have to bring in equip in order to beat any given dungeon.

Could be of interest...in the currently on-going Indie Royale bundle one of the games is Hack, Slash, Loot which sure sounds and looks like a roguelike even if the term isn't used anywhere to describe the game. I don't know if it has some indie silliness going on in it, though.

I went ahead and got this, even though I prolly can't run any of the other games. It's definitely a roguelike, though the mouse interface is taking some getting used to. It's got sort of kairosoft-esque visuals & sound, which aren't bad, but they kinda seem like they belong on a browser game. Only played a few games with an archer; I didn't get past the second room. I think I'm doing it wrong...

[Ruldra]

Er...you could've just downloaded the demo of Hack Slash Loot instead of buying it blindly.

http://www.hackslashloot.com/purchase.html

[Moniker]

Er...you could've just downloaded the demo of Hack Slash Loot instead of buying it blindly.

http://www.hackslashloot.com/purchase.html

Shit.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

The character and enemy sprites used in Hack Slash Loot must be free-to-use or something because I've seen them in a number of games now (Great Dungeon in the Sky, Realm of the Mad God).

[Ruldra]

After playing a bit of the demo, I can say the game is severely flawed.

- There's no reason to pick the archer class over the wizard. Ranged attacks lose 2 points of accuracy for every square away from the target, while magic attacks lose only 1 point per square and also ignores defense.
- With that said, both ranged and magic attacks are still very inaccurate and often you can't stop the enemy from reaching you, which leads to your death.
- You can't run away from fights, as everyone walks at the same speed and enemies go after you like homing missiles. Combined with the inaccuracy of ranged/magic attacks, you can't escape death.

So your only option is to pick the fighter. But then you run into another problem:

- There's NO WAY to heal yourself. You don't regenerate health over time and healing items are rare. With enemies all over the place, it's just a matter of time before they kill you.

Perhaps the other unlockable classes have some gimmick that allows you to progress, but the three starting classes have no chance of surviving. I can't even beat the first floor - sometimes you die on the very first room.

[Danny]

@Moniker Mastery Dungeons are probably the most hardcore dungeons in the game. They are the only place you can recruit employees for your base and it's an infinite dungeon with enemies that scale pretty rapidly if you are up for the challenge.

Also if you like indie rougelikes gamersgate is holding an indie bundle with Cardinal Quest as of the games as well as five other games for £3.99 as mentioned on the Wizardry thread. Here is the link again encase you missed it...

http://www.decklinsdemise.com/news.php

[Moniker]

Oh cool, I think I'll keep on with ZHT then. It really is rather fun in spite of breaking some conventions I usually deem essential. Need to keep a more open mind I suppose.

Cardinal's Quest is legit. Streamlined in an intelligent way - sort of plays how Desktop Dungeons would if it were a traditional roguelike. Recommended.

Diablo 2 Hardcore Ironman update: Finally got a sorceress through Act 1. Barely. Andariel was a freaking nail-biter. Had to retreat upstairs a few times and hunt for more healing potions. Was only level 14, which ISTR is quite low.. probably ought to have been clearing levels instead of just taking stairs whenever I found them. I did decide to compromise and allow myself a mercenary. Put all my points so far into warming and charged bolt, with a few in lightning and frozen armor. Major threats prior to Andariel were mostly archers, particularly ice enchanted uniques. Fortunately, found an amulet of thawing which made a lot of difference. Made up for the fact that I only found like 3 staves/orbs with any skills on them, and none very useful. Oi. Need to unwind a little now..

[Moniker]

I got Duriel down to about 25% and then ran out of potions. Fuuuuuuuuck. The teleport-zap-teleport method was working, too. Need to stop panic-spamming rejuv potions in the future... Think I'll try an ice sorceress next...

Edit: Now I remember why I never play ice sorcs. Boring as hell.

[ShmupSamurai]

Ummm...Does Crossfire(not the boardgame, nor the fps of the same name)count?

http://crossfire.real-time.com/

[Drum]

http://agtp.romhack.net/project.php?id=cavenoire

Translation patch for a Game Boy RL called Cave Noire was recently released. Haven't tried it yet but the game itself looks fun:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWIww7YMR4c

[Damocles]

http://agtp.romhack.net/project.php?id=cavenoire

Translation patch for a Game Boy RL called Cave Noire was recently released. Haven't tried it yet but the game itself looks fun:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWIww7YMR4c

I likes.

More portable RL goodness is always a plus.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Ummm...Does Crossfire(not the boardgame, nor the fps of the same name)count?

http://crossfire.real-time.com/

Crossfire's pretty awesome; lots of races to choose from and it's definitely got a roguelike flavour to it, combined with the whole real-time Gauntlet style combat. The player-made maps make for some fun puzzle solving too. Tough as nails though, and not the most user friendly to get into. Still love the game (dragon monk karate chopping the shit out of stuff FTW), really ought to play it more.

[Ruldra]

I got Duriel down to about 25% and then ran out of potions. Fuuuuuuuuck.

Told ya

[Damocles]

Anyone played Shiren the Wanderer Gaiden for the Dreamcast? I snagged a cheap copy (along with Shiren GB 2) and I'm hoping it's not crap.

[CptRansom]

I'd recommend switching to Brogue if and when you get tired of Dredmor. It's in ASCII, but done such a gorgeous way, you won't mind. The command set is very minimalistic and very easy to figure. IMO it's the best and most elegant roguelike out there right now.

I just started playing Brogue (finally) and it's AWESOME. You weren't kidding about it being easy to get into! I really like the easy-to-remember commands and how you can mouseover things to see what they are instead of the eleventy billion things to remember in NetHack. Are there other Roguelikes like this one that are this easy to get into but difficult to beat? My interest is definitely piqued.

Other RLs I've screwed around with lately: I forgot I bought beta access to Desktop Dungeons a few months ago. More of a puzzle than a RL, but it can still be entertaining sometimes, I guess (or this is me just trying to make the most of a bad purchase - likely).

I'm considering getting the DLC for Dredmor... I haven't made it past the fourth floor in the main game. It seems like the game almost requires very specific skillsets/builds in order to succeed, and that kind of annoys me (there's a difference between games with selectable skills that, should you choose poorly, will gimp you but still allow you to complete the game, and games like Dredmor that just become all but impossible if you don't select just the right combination of skills - am I taking the wrong attitude toward this?).

I picked up that gamersgate bundle and had some fun with Cardinal Quest (more fun than Desktop Dungeons at any rate). Wanderlust looked promising from the description, but I found playing it to be really boring within about 10 minutes. Maybe I missed something there. I still need to give Devil Whiskey and the Kenshi alpha a try because both look pretty neat.

I tried getting into Wizardry 6, but no luck. Wizardry 7 wouldn't run higher than some super-tiny resolution on my laptop, and I forgot how annoying the character creation is (drives me insane how the game will randomly decide to let character #X be a Ninja but not character #Y), so I just said fuck it and deleted it. Is Wizardry 8 any better (I found my discs)?

Any good RLs for Android (or hell, RPGs in general)? I've been playing Legends of Yore (which, as a nice bonus, it can save your character online so you can play the mobile version or the Flash version in-browser) and a little bit of Deadly Dungeons (controls get on my nerves sometimes), and wouldn't mind some more. I've heard good things about Andor's Trail, but I've shied away from it because it's apparently incomplete. =/

Sorry for long post. I'm bored.

[Moniker]

I just started playing Brogue (finally) and it's AWESOME. You weren't kidding about it being easy to get into! I really like the easy-to-remember commands and how you can mouseover things to see what they are instead of the eleventy billion things to remember in NetHack. Are there other Roguelikes like this one that are this easy to get into but difficult to beat? My interest is definitely piqued.

Among the major roguelikes, Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup is probably the easiest to get into. It's very transparent and doesn't require spoilers, although it's still rather complicated, depending on your class/race/religion (I'd recommend Orcish Priests to start with). The interface is second only to Brogue in terms of ease of use - playing mouse-only is very comfortable.

A guaranteed win, however, would be DoomRL. It's crazy fun and very simple, with its primary focus being tactics. The easier difficulties are very feasible for beginners, but I'd say the "true" game is playing on Hurt Me Plenty or Ultra Violent. Just like Doom proper, the difference b/w difficulties is really well done and isn't a matter of enemies having more hp and doing more damage. Make sure you play with sound, as it factors into the gameplay.

As for android roguelikes, I've heard good things about Dweller. There are free ports of NetHack, Slash'EM and Angband too, which are fun for a lark if you already know the games inside and out. I'm pretty sure there's POWDER (another good simple one on any platform) for iOS... not sure if anythings being done for a droid port.


tl;dr - Definitely get DoomRL, and give Stone Soup a try if you're feeling particularly stout-hearted.

[Ruldra]

Dungeon Ascendance is a great Desktop Dungeons clone for Android. I actually prefer it over DD, you heal when you collect food rather than exploring the map. This mechanic really puts me off DD, more than once I died because I couldn't heal myself before fighting the boss.

[Moniker]

The co-creator of the original Rogue, Glenn Wichman, was just interviewed by the Roguelike Radio boys. Very interesting stuff.

http://roguelikeradio.blogspot.com/2012 ... glenn.html


Sadly, he now works for Zynga.