Journey - PSN

[Ruldra]

I expect a rebuttal, but this argument is tiring and it won't go anywhere. I want no more of it. I'm out.

[Hagane]

A quality game will be more popular, yes. But quality doesn't necessarily mean complex.

I can't believe this is being posted on an STG forum of all places.

What "people" wants is only relevant from a business standpoint. Quality and "people" usually go separate ways.

[Estebang]

I don't think SMB3 is THE most complex platformer out there, but it sure beats out over 90% of the genre in that criteria.

It's the game's fault for turning people away, for being too convoluted.

You need a balance between accessibility and complexity. Make it too accessible, people will think the game is too dumbed-down. Make it too complicated, people won't bother playing it. Complexity is good up to a certain point.

Remember, people play games to relax and enjoy themselves. If even learning the game seems like too much work, why bother? Would you call players lazy for not wanting to read Falcon 4.0's manual?

Speaking of which, that's the entire reason the flight sim genre died. For being too complex for their own good.

You're speaking like a marketing director, not a critic. None of this has any bearing on a game's quality, only its popularity and sales. A game with well-implemented complexity is always going to be better than a simple one, regardless of how many people are willing to persevere with its nuances. But it doesn't matter, because you've already accepted defeat.

[Skykid]

This is now collectively the most ignorant thread in shmups.org history.

Just think, if only it was a little more... complicated.

[Marc]

I don't think SMB3 is THE most complex platformer out there, but it sure beats out over 90% of the genre in that criteria.

It's the game's fault for turning people away, for being too convoluted.

You need a balance between accessibility and complexity. Make it too accessible, people will think the game is too dumbed-down. Make it too complicated, people won't bother playing it. Complexity is good up to a certain point.

Remember, people play games to relax and enjoy themselves. If even learning the game seems like too much work, why bother? Would you call players lazy for not wanting to read Falcon 4.0's manual?

Speaking of which, that's the entire reason the flight sim genre died. For being too complex for their own good.

You're speaking like a marketing director, not a critic. None of this has any bearing on a game's quality, only its popularity and sales. A game with well-implemented complexity is always going to be better than a simple one, regardless of how many people are willing to persevere with its nuances. But it doesn't matter, because you've already accepted defeat.

Of course, that's why Gran Tourismo 5 is better than OuRun 2, Sega Rally Online, Hydro Thunder, Daytona... It's more complicated! Silly me, i've been doing it wrong all these years, now I see the error of my ways.

[Marc]

I don't think SMB3 is THE most complex platformer out there, but it sure beats out over 90% of the genre in that criteria.

It's the game's fault for turning people away, for being too convoluted.

You need a balance between accessibility and complexity. Make it too accessible, people will think the game is too dumbed-down. Make it too complicated, people won't bother playing it. Complexity is good up to a certain point.

Remember, people play games to relax and enjoy themselves. If even learning the game seems like too much work, why bother? Would you call players lazy for not wanting to read Falcon 4.0's manual?

Speaking of which, that's the entire reason the flight sim genre died. For being too complex for their own good.

You're speaking like a marketing director, not a critic. None of this has any bearing on a game's quality, only its popularity and sales. A game with well-implemented complexity is always going to be better than a simple one, regardless of how many people are willing to persevere with its nuances. But it doesn't matter, because you've already accepted defeat.

Of course, that's why Gran Tourismo 5 is better than OuRun 2, Sega Rally Online, Hydro Thunder, Daytona... It's more complicated! Silly me, i've been doing it wrong all these years, now I see the error of my ways.

Oh and the 'who's having more fun' argument might be the stupidest thing I've heard in years.

[njiska]

At the risk of reopening a can of worms that i'd far rather leave sealed, I'd like to make an update on my earlier suspicions. Originally when I voiced my thoughts about Journey i mentioned that I was unsure about how the game would stand up on replays given the importance of the unknown to the enjoyment of the experience. I am pleased to report that having come back to Journey after some time away, I still found it to be compelling. The awe and grandeur of the first playthrough was definitely diminished, but overall I still felt compelled to keep playing. Trophies actually provided a surprisingly good motivator to do some hardcore investigating this time around and to my surprise having the objectives of finding hidden glyphs and scarf extensions filled in the enjoyment gap created by familiarity with the stages. I even found some new areas I didn't know about. Fairly certain at this point that Journey is going to be one of those random games that you pick up every few months when you just need to kill an afternoon.

[linko9]

Played this a couple days ago. It was OK I guess. Very nice visually, music was pretty good. Other than that, not much going on as far as I'm concerned. Also there was this one part where my unsolicited partner kept fucking up and getting me attacked in the process. That was very annoying. Really didn't get anything out of the multiplayer experience. And I had no desire whatsoever to replay it, so I spent $15 on an hour and a half of gameplay, which isn't the worst thing you could do, but isn't really the best use of my money.

[E. Randy Dupre]

You can't cause another player to get attacked in this game. If you were attacked alongside your partner, it's because you were both doing it wrong.

[Drum]

I don't think SMB3 is THE most complex platformer out there, but it sure beats out over 90% of the genre in that criteria.

It's the game's fault for turning people away, for being too convoluted.

You need a balance between accessibility and complexity. Make it too accessible, people will think the game is too dumbed-down. Make it too complicated, people won't bother playing it. Complexity is good up to a certain point.

Remember, people play games to relax and enjoy themselves. If even learning the game seems like too much work, why bother? Would you call players lazy for not wanting to read Falcon 4.0's manual?

Speaking of which, that's the entire reason the flight sim genre died. For being too complex for their own good.

You're speaking like a marketing director, not a critic. None of this has any bearing on a game's quality, only its popularity and sales. A game with well-implemented complexity is always going to be better than a simple one, regardless of how many people are willing to persevere with its nuances. But it doesn't matter, because you've already accepted defeat.

Go fuck yourself.

[mesh control]

Pssst
Drum, he left the forum

[Moniker]

I think if we replaced "complexity" with "depth," the debate would almost entirely evaporate. A simple game can be deep (Doom), and a complex game can be shallow (Deus Ex:HR). Although there have certainly been great shallow games (Tetris).

[linko9]

You can't cause another player to get attacked in this game. If you were attacked alongside your partner, it's because you were both doing it wrong.

I was hiding under the cover, he was just outside it. The dragonny thing spotted him, and then attacked both of us. Unless he can see you through the cover, in which case that's a terrible design decision.