The BIG thread of Shmup grievances.

[Erppo]

It kind of highlights the problem in general. I can clear stages and practice isn't going to make me any better, yet I still can't clear the game. Not really sure what you're meant to do in that situation. It's a different case when you can't clear a game because you can't clear a stage/boss, but when you can actually beat all the levels it seems like the ultimate dead end.

How about dropping the game for a while and coming back to it when your skills have improved. That usually works and it's nice because it lets you really see the progress you have made.

[DrTrouserPlank]

It kind of highlights the problem in general. I can clear stages and practice isn't going to make me any better, yet I still can't clear the game. Not really sure what you're meant to do in that situation. It's a different case when you can't clear a game because you can't clear a stage/boss, but when you can actually beat all the levels it seems like the ultimate dead end.

How about dropping the game for a while and coming back to it when your skills have improved. That usually works and it's nice because it lets you really see the progress you have made.

I think I'll have to because my drive to play it has pretty much gone because I'm not working towards anything now, I'm just banging credits into arcade mode and failing to clear it which isn't achieving anything.

What do I do though; find another game and play it until I get stuck?

Sound like a never ending cycle.

[Hagane]

How many days ago have you started playing it, and how many hours a day do you play?

[Eaglet]

If Futari Original is what you're having problems with... try playing some Psikyo games. I recommend you Gunbird 2.
If anything else your survival skills against fast bullets will definitely improve.

edit: Sorry, didn't read your original post and got lazy.
My opinion still stands if you wanna improve your general skills though.

[gamez fan]

it always kinda annoyed me that when you beat all levels in taito's flying shark aka sky shark every new loop started from level 2
i liked level one there was some tricky bits which might have got real tricky the more loops you made

[Deca]

You can't beat games because you spend all your time telling yourself that you can't beat them. Delude your way to success. I'm not being sarcastic or joking at all.

[J_Taishu]

It kind of highlights the problem in general. I can clear stages and practice isn't going to make me any better, yet I still can't clear the game. Not really sure what you're meant to do in that situation. It's a different case when you can't clear a game because you can't clear a stage/boss, but when you can actually beat all the levels it seems like the ultimate dead end.

How about dropping the game for a while and coming back to it when your skills have improved. That usually works and it's nice because it lets you really see the progress you have made.

I think I'll have to because my drive to play it has pretty much gone because I'm not working towards anything now, I'm just banging credits into arcade mode and failing to clear it which isn't achieving anything.

What do I do though; find another game and play it until I get stuck?

Sound like a never ending cycle.

Just because you can beat a level in practice, doesn't mean that you can beat it in Arcade mode, and it has nothing to do with nerves or a lack of attention (although these things could kill you as well). Do you see the bullet that kills you, and do you understand exactly how it moves? There's a very good chance that the bullets you're getting hit by are actually so easy to dodge that you usually dodge them without thinking about them or even seeing at all. This is fine for practice, but on a full run this is exactly what's going to hurt your consistency when over a lot of stages these stray bullets will take you down.

[Cellinaire]

Kill them before they get to point blank range.

...How nice of you to lecture me about how to breathe.

I just said I don't like them. It's this simple.

[toaplan_shmupfan]

Forced loss of turn (death) due to an early closing trap that does not open again.

A "fair" shmup would allow some way to shoot out a hole even after the trap was closed. A pure memorizer shmup allows no way to open the close trap and there goes a turn (ship, airplane, whatever the player controlled item may be).

[Obscura]

WTF, I just got killed by an enemy in Ketsui that shot at me after being scrolled off the bottom of the screen.

[Deca]

When I fucking get 4 hours of sleep like a goddamn retard because I KEPT DRILLING UNTIL IT WORKED even though I was far beyond too tired to play eeffectively sadkvaakakaj'd

[O. Van Bruce]

Got to the 5th stage with 3 lives in Ketsui

all lives lost before the midboss

:_D

[Obscura]

WTF, I just got killed by an enemy in Ketsui that shot at me after being scrolled off the bottom of the screen.

Happened again. From the same enemy, no less.

I guess I need to make really damn sure I kill the helicopter on the far left during stage 3's reverse scrolling section after the big battleship.

[DrTrouserPlank]

I don't know what to play next seeing as I'm packing up under defeat.

I've got loads of games but they've all got problems.

DFK - too difficult and scoring is extreme memory because it's all about chaining.
DFK black - same
Ketsui - Don't understand scoring. Game is a mess imo
DS - crappy practice mode but the game bores me anyway
DSIIX - unopened
DOJBLEX - too much chaining and memory. Break the chain and you might as well hit restart.
Espgaluda 2 - like the game but the massive difference in a normal "clearing score" and an "abusing the system" score is so big that clearing it seems pointless because you are scoring nothing.
Futari - lol
AKS - decent but scoring seems to suffer from espgaluda 2 syndrome and the last two bosses are too stupid to contemplate
pork/sweets - don't like sweets, pork's alright but don't like the ship movement/hitbox.

I'm certainly starting to think that Cave's games aren't as great as people make out.

[dunpeal2064]

It seems like you own a lot of games, and have no idea how any of them work.

its like you bought a sweet ass bike and don't even know how to start it.

Worse, all these people are sitting here telling you to turn the key, and you won't listen. You just keep headbutting the wheel, thinking that might start it instead, and then complain that you have a headache.

[DrTrouserPlank]

It seems like you own a lot of games, and have no idea how any of them work.

its like you bought a sweet ass bike and don't even know how to start it.

Worse, all these people are sitting here telling you to turn the key, and you won't listen. You just keep headbutting the wheel, thinking that might start it instead, and then complain that you have a headache.

I've certainly got a headache.

I don't understand them because of their impenetrable levels of difficulty and obtuse scoring mechanics that require you to attend a 3 year course at Cave university. There's certainly no point in playing them without at least giving some consideration to scoring, but as I say some of them use a scoring mechanism that is so far removed from actually playing the game that it's an impossible task to even think about attempting them.

galuda 2 is good, but the difference between playing for survival and just scoring when you can, and playing outright for score is so ridiculous that it seems as if there's no point even trying. I'm inclined to think that if people are able to get both extends on the first level then the scoring is a bit broken or more abusable than was originally intended.

[Bananamatic]

cave is pretty crap for serious play, yeah

try psyvariar for PS2, costs nothing and isn't as anal as caves are

[Erppo]

Break the chain and you might as well hit restart.

Why, are you planning to break the WR?

[Icarus]

I'm inclined to think that if people are able to get both extends on the first level then the scoring is a bit broken or more abusable than was originally intended.

You mean like this? Maybe you're just not good enough, and/or understand nothing about the games you play.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

galuda 2 is good, but the difference between playing for survival and just scoring when you can, and playing outright for score is so ridiculous that it seems as if there's no point even trying.

Then just play it for survival. You should be playing games you enjoy, regardless of whether or not you're good at them.

Giga Wing seems to be fairly accessible both for people new to shmups and those looking for scoring systems that allow for huge optimizations. Scoring is all about learning to hold back and milk every medal you can early on, but for survival you can abuse reflect and power through bosses all you like. That, and the hitbox is fairly small, small enough that you could quite feasably beat the game without ever using the reflect mechanic if you wanted a challenge (albeit a few of the stage 6 attacks and the true last boss's huge radial spam are really, really hard to weave through, but you get plenty of bombs for that sort of thing).

[mesh control]

I don't know what to play next seeing as I'm packing up under defeat.

I've got loads of games but they've all got problems.

DFK - too difficult and scoring is extreme memory because it's all about chaining.
DFK black - same
Ketsui - Don't understand scoring. Game is a mess imo
DS - crappy practice mode but the game bores me anyway
DSIIX - unopened
DOJBLEX - too much chaining and memory. Break the chain and you might as well hit restart.
Espgaluda 2 - like the game but the massive difference in a normal "clearing score" and an "abusing the system" score is so big that clearing it seems pointless because you are scoring nothing.
Futari - lol
AKS - decent but scoring seems to suffer from espgaluda 2 syndrome and the last two bosses are too stupid to contemplate
pork/sweets - don't like sweets, pork's alright but don't like the ship movement/hitbox.

I'm certainly starting to think that Cave's games aren't as great as people make out.

I actually made a nice list of annotations to his comments, but reminded myself any advice I give will fall on deaf ears.

learn2play

lollololol

[Hagane]

I'm certainly starting to think that Cave's games aren't as great as people make out.

Give Dangun Feveron a go.

[DrTrouserPlank]

Break the chain and you might as well hit restart.

Why, are you planning to break the WR?

No, but unless you can have a decent stab at scoring or at least using the principles of scoring, playing without feels hollow and pointless.

I'm inclined to think that if people are able to get both extends on the first level then the scoring is a bit broken or more abusable than was originally intended.

You mean like this? Maybe you're just not good enough, and/or understand nothing about the games you play.

I still think it's very odd. Extends are usually built in to accomodate moderate scoring, but being able to obtain them both on stage 1 seems completely ridiculous and highlights the massive disparity between playing for score and trying to score whilst clearing it. Unless you are able to memorise some ludicrous suicide bullet slo-mo route for the entire game your clearing score will just be pitiful and equivalent to a good run through stage 1. As if beating the game isn't difficult enough, you'll then find out that the route used to beat it is completely useless for scoring.

[mesh control]

I'm certainly starting to think that Cave's games aren't as great as people make out.

Give Dangun Feveron a go.

"Bullets move too fast, ship moves too fast and the cat is annoying. Impossible."-What I predict DTP to say about the game.

[Icarus]

You should worry about actually beating the games first before scoring high.
Especially considering your lack of knowledge regarding the in-game systems is lacking at best.

[mesh control]

I'll probably get in trouble for this, but can we ban this scrub yet?

He is doing nothing for this community, no matter how much advice he is given.

[StarCreator]

You should worry about actually beating the games first before scoring high.
Especially considering your lack of knowledge regarding the in-game systems is lacking at best.

Wait, he has a lack of a lack of knowledge? x_x

[dunpeal2064]

Man, I want to start running competitively, but when I try to run a 4 minute mile, I get completely exhausted every time.

its fucking impossible.

[Icarus]

Wait, he has a lack of a lack of knowledge? x_x

It's so bad that if it was expressed as a percentage, it'd be in negative figures.

[Erppo]

[No, but unless you can have a decent stab at scoring or at least using the principles of scoring, playing without feels hollow and pointless.

That's still a stupid way to approach the game. There are very few people in the world who have chained everything in the game and only one person in this forum has chained the whole first loop.

As if beating the game isn't difficult enough, you'll then find out that the route used to beat it is completely useless for scoring.

Depth is a bad thing now?