IGF 2012 Dramafest (gamedev hipsters behaving badly)

[Estebang]

Konstantin Koshutin is another excellent one-man indie (no quotes!) PC developer, whose Muslim-themed 2D physics/flight combat game Hammerfight was tragically ignored in favor of vapid trash like Flower and Braid. Russians just can't catch a break.

[Udderdude]

D-d-d-dramaaaaaa. More about that poor Japanese guy who got told 'Your entire country's game development output sucks'.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.ph ... count=2255

Reading Hiro's Twitter (as well as the feeds of other Japanese people that spoke with Hiro), and I really feel sorry for him even more.

Apparently he paid his own way to come to GDC for the first time so he could hear some great talks and learn new things. He studied English hardcore beforehand, and even switched his language at home to English just to practice for the conference. Then, on his first day at GDC, he works up his courage to ask Fish a question, and gets berated like that.

Anyway, the guy seems like he's really nice. The response really got to him, though. He posted at 3:00am the night of the incident saying he couldn't sleep.

What a prick. And on top of this, the art style from Fez is a pretty shameless and obvious ripoff of Cave Story, which was made by a Japanese developer.

[szycag]

I think most will agree (and this has been discussed at length in another anime thread) that when they were aping western culture is when things were so awesome. The recent glut of pink haired sissy-boys who can't talk to girls is when shit goes astray.

Back then western culture was worth aping! (oh crap, now I'm doing it)

Honestly though, the big word there is scope. Games are more like feature films now, and when there's a need for that much talent and money put into it, it's going to be harder to make a comparable product across continents. So it's the growing market and budgets that really shut Japan out, not any lack of effort on Japan's part. I mean look at something like Binary Domain.

What would really get Japan's game industry going again is giving gamers all over the world something they didn't know they wanted yet, instead of trying to top western first and third person shooters. Blue ocean strategy. But the more people like Phil Fish run their mouths, the more Japanese devs will just give up and make games for Japanese people I think.

[Skykid]

Sorry, Sorry...

is fearful of having his work measured against that of the masters in his field, and who therefore invents this non-existent category in order to hide in it.

If it's a category at all, how can it be 'non-existent'?

You've stumbled upon the exact point he's trying to make, good sir.

No I haven't, I just stumbled on more of Icy's bullshit equivocating. The point is obvious, it's the wording that's horrible.

Then you should stay the hell away from the "indie" community, because their favorite pastime is debating if games are art.

Pointing out your lack of interest in an argument does not invalidate said argument. Not to mention that this stuff involves the careers of thousands of people.

You have me all wrong. It's a fine debate to have. I'm up for discussing indie games versus art, too, if anyone fancies it, it's a good topic. I'm just not up for faux intellectual egoism and banal philosophy. That nonsense should never leave Insomnia.

[rancor]

Games are more like feature films now..

Excellent point, and it's probably a big reason why many of us (myself included) are a constant presence on this forum.

edit: edited. I went into an off-topic rant about RPGs..

[Estebang]

That's pretty depressing about Hiro. I hope Fish's career gets run into the fucking ground because of this. Unfortunately, it won't, and the whole thing will blow over without any meaningful consequences just like the Penny Arcade dickwolves fiasco.

You have me all wrong. It's a fine debate to have. I'm up for discussing indie games versus art, too, if anyone fancies it, it's a good topic. I'm just not up for faux intellectual egoism and banal philosophy. That nonsense should never leave Insomnia.

I can't believe this is coming from someone who says they hate Hideo Kojima games. Double standards much?

Sorry, but "games as art" is a subject just as rich in "intellectual egoism and banal philosophy" as whatever you think you're railing against.

[Drum]

What a prick. And on top of this, the art style from Fez is a pretty shameless and obvious ripoff of Cave Story, which was made by a Japanese developer.

The perspective-shifting gimmick was also already thrashed to death by Super Paper Mario before Fez was even announced, and again by Echrochrome in the lifetime in between its announcement and release - both quality Japanese games.

[Skykid]

Reading Hiro's Twitter (as well as the feeds of other Japanese people that spoke with Hiro), and I really feel sorry for him even more.

Apparently he paid his own way to come to GDC for the first time so he could hear some great talks and learn new things. He studied English hardcore beforehand, and even switched his language at home to English just to practice for the conference. Then, on his first day at GDC, he works up his courage to ask Fish a question, and gets berated like that.

Anyway, the guy seems like he's really nice. The response really got to him, though. He posted at 3:00am the night of the incident saying he couldn't sleep.

What a prick. And on top of this, the art style from Fez is a pretty shameless and obvious ripoff of Cave Story, which was made by a Japanese developer.

Forgive me, but I laughed my ass off at that.

Talk about the world's smallest violin. Makes it sound like the guy got racially abused, taken to his hotel room, put in a dress and assraped by a gang of West Indian drug pirates.

The guy said you make sucky games, so what. Get some sleep for Chrissakes.

[Drum]

Games are more like feature films now..

Excellent point, and it's probably a big reason why many of us (myself included) are a constant presence on this forum.

edit: edited. I went into an off-topic rant about RPGs..

Games are more diverse now than they've ever been, even if there are some shitty trends in certain areas.

[Udderdude]

What a prick. And on top of this, the art style from Fez is a pretty shameless and obvious ripoff of Cave Story, which was made by a Japanese developer.

The perspective-shifting gimmick was also already thrashed to death by Super Paper Mario before Fez was even announced, and again by Echrochrome in the lifetime in between its announcement and release - both quality Japanese games.

And someone just posted yet another game in the NeoGAF thread that has a very similar 3d-to-2d gameplay mechanic, and on top of that appears to be a competent puzzle game instead of a 'wander around like a dumbass looking at zomg pixels' simulator.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crush_%28video_game%29

[GaijinPunch]

It's asinine. I'm also sure he hasn't played any of the smaller Japanese productions which are every bit as quirky, puzzly, and original as anything coming out of the western indie scene. He seems ill-informed. Or maybe he isn't and he's just being a jerk because he can.

I always laugh at guys that show off their mouths in a forum full of geeks. I mean, seriously. I can understand bigging yourself up if it will result in a blow job or MAYBE a nice hand doogy. But game conventions, forums, or any of the like have always been a bit of a guilty pleasure for me. Go, get the info, see a video, go home. Attitude never enters, unless it's in an arcade, playing fighting games -- and that's usually just in good fun, like my Canadian comments.

[e_tank]

Also shouldn't he owe a lot to modern japanese games like Super Paper Mario and Cave Story?

What a prick. And on top of this, the art style from Fez is a pretty shameless and obvious ripoff of Cave Story, which was made by a Japanese developer.

yep. when i first saw fez years ago my immediate reaction was that it's a cave story knock off, sans any kind of action that might require some sort of skill or effort, mixed with the same gimmick from crush for the psp. he has no business mouthing off like that when his game is, at least from what i've seen, such a blatant rip off of some relatively modern japanese games.

[GaijinPunch]

Having an epiphany... there really is too much drama in this hobby.

Feeling emasculated. Guess it's time to go shave my pussy.

[louisg]

Having an epiphany... there really is too much drama in this hobby.

NOOOOOooOOOOOoOOOOOoOOOoooOoooooo!!!!!!!!! (drops to knees, rends shirt)

[louisg]

(huh, hammerflight looks cool! thanks for the recommendation)

[Vexorg]

Hammerfight actually got into one of the Humble Indie Bundles and I got it from there. I really like the aesthetics of it, but found it very difficult to control.

As for Fez, it looked interesting at one point, now it's just another poster child for vaporware. Pretty sure I'm going to pass on it, if for no other reason than the fact that it should have been released three years ago.

[louisg]

I'll just leave this here http://bobsgame.com/

[Udderdude]

I'll just leave this here http://bobsgame.com/

Did this dumbass ever manage to get any funding for his non-existant handheld?

[Skykid]

I'll just leave this here http://bobsgame.com/

Man, that's so embarrassing. I feel for the guy.

"This virtual "bob's game" inside of "bob's game" is created by the in-game end boss character "bob," the author's alter-ego.
"bob" is a villainous, egomaniacal mad-genius developer who believes he has uncovered a vast conspiracy in the game industry to hold back great games. "

And he wonders why 5 years later he has no publisher... Really needs to stop with the 'Yuu' jokes too. :palm:

[Marc]

Only on shmups...

Developer dude opens his big mouth and has folk that have never played his game writing it off as shit, and then wishing the guy's game and career down the toilet. Games sure got serious since I was a kid.

[Jeneki]

Beavis: "Heh heh, heh heh. Hey Butthead, why are there so many games that suck?"

Butthead: "Uhh, huh huh, huh huh. If there weren't games that suck, how would we know what sucks?"

[Udderdude]

Beavis: "Heh heh, heh heh. Hey Butthead, why are there so many games that suck?"

Butthead: "Uhh, huh huh, huh huh. If there weren't games that suck, how would we know what sucks?"

This is like a Zen Koan or some shit.

[louisg]

Only on shmups...

Developer dude opens his big mouth and has folk that have never played his game writing it off as shit, and then wishing the guy's game and career down the toilet. Games sure got serious since I was a kid.

FWIW, I've played it. It's not vapor; it actually does exist. It's definitely not bad, but at the same time it's not as if the developer has created a breathtakingly new kind of game. That wouldn't give him license to piss all over everyone either, but at least he'd look maybe slightly less foolish.

I can see maybe him being too concise, like "Japanese games suck" meaning "the industry has fallen off", and just being tactless about it. But to then not bother to apologize, and then go around telling people to suck his dick because he's apparently the darling of this art scene is ridiculous. So.. yeah.. I can see why people would root for his game to fail without having played it. There are plenty of nice indie game authors doing legitimately interesting games, which contain actual new ideas, who AREN'T going around and being complete assholes.

[burgerkingdiamond]

I'll just leave this here http://bobsgame.com/

wow. This is kind of tragic. I mean the guy has some talent and can program, but he has no idea how to make something that anyone would actually want to play. Just look at all the character names. It looks like a 12 year old came up with the concept to his game.

[burgerkingdiamond]

I'm pretty out of touch with western games for the most part (Fallout being the exception). Since I only import shooters I have no idea what all this Japanese gaming sucks is all about. I'm kind of interested though. Anyone care to elaborate?

[Marc]

Uh Oh.....

[Skykid]

I'm pretty out of touch with western games for the most part (Fallout being the exception). Since I only import shooters I have no idea what all this Japanese gaming sucks is all about. I'm kind of interested though. Anyone care to elaborate?

Japanese creativity has been stifled since they spend all their time trying to make games they think westerners would like, since we're now the largest market. They invented an entire era of game design that has suddenly become outdated in favour of cinematic FPS/action/adventure style games, which they suck at making because they don't understand the core appeal. They take existing IP's like RE and build on it's Japanese groundwork by bolting on as much westernised frippery as they can, or copy outright. Either way, it often results in an uncomfortable work with limited appeal.

[shmuppyLove]

"your games just suck"

By definition, most of just about anything sucks. Most games in Japan suck... most games in the US suck... Pretty cool to use a broad sweeping brush on a public forum... especially by a Canadian? What a hoser. Canadians making fun of people from other countries? Was this conference in the bizarro world?

I am ashamed to admit that yes, he's Canadian. At least he's all the way in Montreal .. >_>

Well if he's from Montreal then it doesn't count. Everyone knows that Quebec is not part of Canada.

[Khan]

Phil fish smells like fish

[shmuppyLove]

Having an epiphany... there really is too much drama in this hobby.

Feeling emasculated. Guess it's time to go shave my pussy.

So wait, that makes you feel more masculine?