Under Defeat HD

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stryc9
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Re: Under Defeat HD

Post by stryc9 »

DrTrouserPlank wrote: You cannot avoid all the crap on the screen all the time.... fact
No, not all the time. But effective use of practice modes can reduce collisions with said crap most of the time, for the majority of the game (ie parts of the game that are not a wall, as you put it, but sections early on for example where the 'random' deaths occur from inconsistency).
DrTrouserPlank wrote: You are going to nudge something by accident with not insignificant frequency... fact
Everyones going to nudge something by accident every now and then but theres a difference between blundering into a random spread and not being prepared and well practiced for the spread in the first place.

The one thing I've noticed with Under Defeat is that you really need to prioritize your threat neutralization. Find an optimum route thru each stage and use the option distribution that worked on the run you did when you no missed stage 4, for example.

If you don't prioritize consistently you seem to get overwhelmed quickly.
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Gus
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Re: Under Defeat HD

Post by Gus »

They see me trolling...
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mesh control
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Re: Under Defeat HD

Post by mesh control »

DTP is acting like he's playing Pink Sweets or something lolz
lol
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ExitPlanetDust
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Re: Under Defeat HD

Post by ExitPlanetDust »

stryc9 wrote:PS @ ExitPlanetDust: Checked the video, unfortunately I'm having trouble getting sound so I don't know what your commentary is saying while you mess with the screen options. probably a lot of swearing I would guess.

It does look like the end of the line as far as a fix goes for PS3 until they patch this thing.

But your trying to play in yoko on a 4:3 right? Might be time to tate that shit, or get a 16:9 display you can tate easily.
Thanks for giving it a look. Yeah, lots of swearing and ranting that I had to chop. I tried cutting things in a manner that would leave relevant commentary in.

I did test again last night after deleting the save. I even tried starting a new game with a fresh save in 4:3. Still letterboxed...

I would play TATE if possible but the CRT I am on now is pretty old and I'm kind of afraid to TATE it. I had an old Phillips 27" awhile ago that I would TATE all the time. Then again, the tube weighed half as much as the Sony now.

YOKO is completely unplayable unless you're playing on a very large CRT. I definitely think TATE is playable on a 27" 4:3. It's still very disappointing that it cuts around 2 or 3 inches off of the viewable space giving you only a 24" equivalent. But what can you do? I will probably go back to playing my DC version for the CRT.

Crossing fingers for a patch, though.
Last edited by ExitPlanetDust on Tue Mar 06, 2012 3:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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StarCreator
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Re: Under Defeat HD

Post by StarCreator »

TLB wrote:Just because you've failed to communicate with him doesn't mean it's impossible, by the way. The entire time this whole "fuck DTP" thing has gone on, all it would have taken was a few people to "take him under their wing", so to speak, to solve most of his problems. This forum completely fails at communication on a massive scale. A few hundred posts per day don't necessarily contain any useful information. I'd leave it up to the denizens of shmups forum to figure out and extrapolate on this one, but I think it's a lost cause, so I'll just drop it there.
Things actually started this way; he asked for help, he received advice, everyone happy. Eventually though, frustration got the better of him and he began questioning the advice he received, even going so far as to demand proof of other players' skill, as if he believed the entire forum had been lying to him the entire time. It's really sad, but the breakdown of rational discourse falls only on him, as things wouldn't have progressed to this point if he wasn't so openly antagonistic toward the people trying to help him and dismissive of the genre as a whole.
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Deca
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Re: Under Defeat HD

Post by Deca »

This whole game is about prioritizing your targets, that's really all there is to it. If you don't kill a dangerous enemy quickly enough you can get worked into unwinnable situations.

Just take each stage at a time in training mode and learn what to prioritize. Replays will help a great deal with this game.
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DrTrouserPlank
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Re: Under Defeat HD

Post by DrTrouserPlank »

StarCreator wrote:
TLB wrote:Just because you've failed to communicate with him doesn't mean it's impossible, by the way. The entire time this whole "fuck DTP" thing has gone on, all it would have taken was a few people to "take him under their wing", so to speak, to solve most of his problems. This forum completely fails at communication on a massive scale. A few hundred posts per day don't necessarily contain any useful information. I'd leave it up to the denizens of shmups forum to figure out and extrapolate on this one, but I think it's a lost cause, so I'll just drop it there.
Things actually started this way; he asked for help, he received advice, everyone happy. Eventually though, frustration got the better of him and he began questioning the advice he received, even going so far as to demand proof of other players' skill, as if he believed the entire forum had been lying to him the entire time. It's really sad, but the breakdown of rational discourse falls only on him, as things wouldn't have progressed to this point if he wasn't so openly antagonistic toward the people trying to help him and dismissive of the genre as a whole.
This started out promisingly and even had a whiff of accuracy to it, but it went downhill quickly. Before I correct you I'll just add that I don't believe in blindly accepting advice without at least seeing if it passes the rationale test. Anybody who blindly accepts advise without question is rather naive.

I never "demanded proof". I intimated (as I have done here and everywhere else) that consistency is hard to achieve and luck contributed greatly to the success of a run. If consistency is hard to achieve it stands to reason that factors beyond our control are the deciding element as to how a run turns out, luck being one such element.

People provided videos of themselves performing certain feats (none of these demonstrated consistency as they were one off events, much like superplays) and I was asked to accept that they could do this on demand all the time without ever faltering. This was never proved. What actually happened then when I continued to press the same point about luck being important is that you started playing me off against other forumers by suggesting that my refusal to denounce the existence of luck was tantamount to calling everyone "liars". Not something that I ever did, but evidently the conclusion that you chose to reach.
Deca wrote:This whole game is about prioritizing your targets, that's really all there is to it. If you don't kill a dangerous enemy quickly enough you can get worked into unwinnable situations.

Just take each stage at a time in training mode and learn what to prioritize. Replays will help a great deal with this game.
I learned about speedkilling the 3rd boss in a replay so that was useful.

A lot of the routes that people use in replays are actually very similar to what I came up with myself. I don't think my routes are particularly flawed so as to make the game unnecessarily difficult, but executing them still relies on not bumping things by accident. These aren't shots that have come out of nowhere that I've not seen, I'm talking about hitting things that you know are there and are actively dealing with, but just hit because of the small tolerances involved in avoiding them.
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Erppo
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Re: Under Defeat HD

Post by Erppo »

Let's all just try our best to forget Icarus and his several Futari Original clears in a short timespan shall we.

And Sapz providing a video within a hour or so of one of the "statistically impossible" feats.
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Re: Under Defeat HD

Post by nZero »

This is the Under Defeat HD thread. It is for Under Defeat HD, a game which has just been released, and for which lots of useful information regarding port differences and screen modes is being posted and quickly lost to previous pages. Please stop making it less and less about Under Defeat HD with every post.

DrTrouserPlank, you're entitled to your opinion, but the arguments are all awfully familiar at this point. Please continue your discourse in the thread you created and stop derailing this one (inadvertently or otherwise)

To anyone who feels that they are being trolled by a post, why are you bothering to validate attention-seeking behavior with a reply?
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Kiken
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Re: Under Defeat HD

Post by Kiken »

I know this was asked on a another forum, but I've yet to see a response. ExitPlanetDust (or anyone else with the PS3 version), would you mind letting us know what the top Arcade Mode scores are?
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ExitPlanetDust
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Re: Under Defeat HD

Post by ExitPlanetDust »

Kiken wrote:I know this was asked on a another forum, but I've yet to see a response. ExitPlanetDust (or anyone else with the PS3 version), would you mind letting us know what the top Arcade Mode scores are?
I will check it out and post a picture if I have time when I get home tonight.

Edit: I looked over my video again tonight and I think I might redo it. I think it would be better to zoom the camera out to show the 4:3 TV and light the area better so the presence of the bars can be better seen. I could also run the Dreamcast version on another port and switch between the two to show the dramatic differences in YOKO and TATE. All the while, making the whole thing less "ranty". Fewer curse words. :wink:
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Re: Under Defeat HD

Post by savethedinosaurs »

PS3 scores:
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Re: Under Defeat HD

Post by DrTrouserPlank »

Those are some weak scores. 1.8 Mil to get in the top 5 is not a lot. The 360 version doesn't have a massive number of high scores, but it's in a better state than that.

Being a reasonably expensive remake of an old game probably hasn't helped it sell; although judging by the state of pre-orders I actually thought it was selling quite well. Maybe people just didn't order much stock?
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Phellan Wolf
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Re: Under Defeat HD

Post by Phellan Wolf »

How well did the game sell? I expect high sales in ordet to have Border Down HD too :)
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ExitPlanetDust
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Re: Under Defeat HD

Post by ExitPlanetDust »

OK, I made another VIDEO showing the image size differences between the PS3 and DC versions.

A bit more professional this time. No ranting. Just video and some tunes.
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Re: Under Defeat HD

Post by SolderFace »

ok so from the video it looks like a widescreen LCD like mine should have no problems with fullscreen tate? but is it still locked to 480P or is it 1080P? and is it really 1080P or is it scalled from the arcade resolution? if this is legit, I might need to throw it up on the 46inch tate.
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ExitPlanetDust
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Re: Under Defeat HD

Post by ExitPlanetDust »

You should be fine on an HD set. TATE arcade mode will display bars at the top and bottom of the screen to preserve the 3:4 ratio, but that's it. It's very playable.

The PS3 version only exhibits "shrinking" issues when displayed on an SD set.

Arcade mode on an HD TV should be in 720P.
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Kiken
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Re: Under Defeat HD

Post by Kiken »

SolderFace wrote:ok so from the video it looks like a widescreen LCD like mine should have no problems with fullscreen tate? but is it still locked to 480P or is it 1080P? and is it really 1080P or is it scalled from the arcade resolution? if this is legit, I might need to throw it up on the 46inch tate.
If you're using a 16:9 or 16:10 screen, you will be fine. All of the display formats in the game were optimized with widescreen aspect ratios in mind (mostly because this release of the game is mainly built around the New Order Mode, which is 16:9). The problem here is for those who wish to play the Arcade Mode on a traditional 4:3 (or for those with tate'd sets, 3:4) screen. Playing either the PS3 or 360 version in 4:3 yoko yields poor results... granted, I suppose 360 players could always run the console via VGA into a monitor (with the display settings in anamorphic widescreen) and then manually adjust the horizontal geometry (aka, widen the image) until they have something resembling a proper 3:4 aspect ratio. Although, really, if you're going to go through that much trouble for just one game, you might as well just tate the monitor and at least have it usable with other 360 vertical shmups.

When it comes to 4:3 tate though, the 360 has a clear advantage. The 'fix' that has been mentioned before in this thread only seems to yield proper results on the 360... performing the same functions on the PS3 results in a squashed image.
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Re: Under Defeat HD

Post by SolderFace »

Yeah thats how i play futari right now. Its 480 scaled to 720 on a native 1080 sony. The tv does the 1.5x at the end but i think it looks good.


@ xbox 360 vga cable, i have one. You can choose your aspect ratio in xbox display settings. If the game is forcing 16:9 when it starts then its not gonna make a difference what aspect ratio you have set in console settings. The good news is that a computer monitor is never going to add black bars like the tv does. The bad news is that the game has no idea what aspect ratio your screen is and its now stretching 16:9 to 4:3. At least my 46in sony has lots of stretching options for 4:3 signals if i choose to force 480
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Kiken
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Re: Under Defeat HD

Post by Kiken »

SolderFace wrote:Yeah thats how i play futari right now. Its 480 scaled to 720 on a native 1080 sony. The tv does the 1.5x at the end but i think it looks good.


@ xbox 360 vga cable, i have one. You can choose your aspect ratio in xbox display settings. If the game is forcing 16:9 when it starts then its not gonna make a difference what aspect ratio you have set in console settings. The good news is that a computer monitor is never going to add black bars like the tv does. The bad news is that the game has no idea what aspect ratio your screen is and its now stretching 16:9 to 4:3. At least my 46in sony has lots of stretching options for 4:3 signals if i choose to force 480
On the 360, yes, adjusting the aspect ratio in the main display menus does make a difference. See my post here for how the game changes its display output depending on the settings. Again, this is why the fix works on the 360 and not on the PS3. Note how in the fourth screen shot, I have the Wallpaper set to 'Type Black'... changing that to 'Type Clear' creates a correct 3:4 aspect ratio image.
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Re: Under Defeat HD

Post by SolderFace »

I reread your post again but I don't see where you explicitly stated that you are using a VGA cable on your 360 with a 4:3 monitor in tate. my only point that I am trying to make is that xbox can do 640x480 on VGA but it pretty much only cares about your preference for aspect ratio for the purposes of displaying the xbox dashboard correctly. if a game only has one aspect ratio available when in 480x640, it will use that. if it supports both then it will do the right thing. everything after that is pretty much software scaling in game. most games don't have native dual aspect ratio support when forced into 480. this has been my experience anyway. I don't own the game yet so I'll do all sorts of tests if I get it.
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Kiken
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Re: Under Defeat HD

Post by Kiken »

SolderFace wrote:I reread your post again but I don't see where you explicitly stated that you are using a VGA cable on your 360 with a 4:3 monitor in tate. my only point that I am trying to make is that xbox can do 640x480 on VGA but it pretty much only cares about your preference for aspect ratio for the purposes of displaying the xbox dashboard correctly. if a game only has one aspect ratio available when in 480x640, it will use that. if it supports both then it will do the right thing. everything after that is pretty much software scaling in game. most games don't have native dual aspect ratio support when forced into 480. this has been my experience anyway. I don't own the game yet so I'll do all sorts of tests if I get it.
It doesn't matter what video format you're using (composite, S-video, component or VGA)... this game will universally change the aspect ratio of the play area on a 4:3 screen depending on what your 360 main display options are set to (apparently, this is not the case on the PS3). And just to humour you, I lugged out my old 17 inch Trinitron VGA CRT monitor to test it. I tried two supported 4:3 resolutions (640 x 480 and 1024 x 768) with each set to anamorphic widescreen, and both yielded the same results as what I posted in those screen captures (which were done through S-Video, just to clarify). Yes, the output is obviously being internally scaled/stretched multiple times in order to create the proper 3:4 image, but that isn't the concern. The concern was whether or not a full screen 3:4 tate image was possible on the 360 version, and the answer is, yes, this is possible.
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Re: Under Defeat HD

Post by SolderFace »

sweet. thanks so much for pulling out the CRT! you are my hero. lots of good information in this thread :)
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Kiken
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Re: Under Defeat HD

Post by Kiken »

SolderFace wrote:sweet. thanks so much for pulling out the CRT! you are my hero. lots of good information in this thread :)
No problem. Also, I'll throw out two more images demonstrating how the fix looks (I figure PS3 owners in particular would probably be interested in seeing exactly how this works). At the Screen option screen, once you set Wallpaper to 'Type Clear' (again, having set the 360's main Display menu to anamorphic Widescreen), the display changes to this:
Image

Now, in game, things won't be perfect. The HUD, as well as the initial select screen and the stage end score tally screens will still be in the square squashed format (as seen in both the left and right screens), but the actual gameplay area will be correct (as seen on the right):
Image
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ExitPlanetDust
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Re: Under Defeat HD

Post by ExitPlanetDust »

@Kiken, Thanks for those screen caps. That was what I was expecting when I set the PS3 display setting to 16:9.
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ExitPlanetDust
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Re: Under Defeat HD

Post by ExitPlanetDust »

Thanks for linking my video. I added yours to the description in both of my videos.
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Re: Under Defeat HD

Post by burgerkingdiamond »

ExitPlanetDust wrote:
stryc9 wrote:PS @ ExitPlanetDust: Checked the video, unfortunately I'm having trouble getting sound so I don't know what your commentary is saying while you mess with the screen options. probably a lot of swearing I would guess.

It does look like the end of the line as far as a fix goes for PS3 until they patch this thing.

But your trying to play in yoko on a 4:3 right? Might be time to tate that shit, or get a 16:9 display you can tate easily.
Thanks for giving it a look. Yeah, lots of swearing and ranting that I had to chop. I tried cutting things in a manner that would leave relevant commentary in.

I did test again last night after deleting the save. I even tried starting a new game with a fresh save in 4:3. Still letterboxed...

I would play TATE if possible but the CRT I am on now is pretty old and I'm kind of afraid to TATE it. I had an old Phillips 27" awhile ago that I would TATE all the time. Then again, the tube weighed half as much as the Sony now.

YOKO is completely unplayable unless you're playing on a very large CRT. I definitely think TATE is playable on a 27" 4:3. It's still very disappointing that it cuts around 2 or 3 inches off of the viewable space giving you only a 24" equivalent. But what can you do? I will probably go back to playing my DC version for the CRT.

Crossing fingers for a patch, though.
There is absolutely nothing to worry about with tipping that baby over. Nothing will happen, it won't break. It can't be that heavy I've pulled the CRT out of my cab a couple times (29") by myself and that's way harder than tipping a TV on it's side. The only thing that will happen is there will be some discoloration. It's completely expected and just the nature of CRT technology. You can fix it with a magnet or degaussing wand. I'm not trying to be condescending, but I have no idea of you're experience level for this stuff so don't be offended.

Just give it a shot.
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ExitPlanetDust
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Re: Under Defeat HD

Post by ExitPlanetDust »

burgerkingdiamond wrote:There is absolutely nothing to worry about with tipping that baby over. Nothing will happen, it won't break. It can't be that heavy I've pulled the CRT out of my cab a couple times (29") by myself and that's way harder than tipping a TV on it's side. The only thing that will happen is there will be some discoloration. It's completely expected and just the nature of CRT technology. You can fix it with a magnet or degaussing wand. I'm not trying to be condescending, but I have no idea of you're experience level for this stuff so don't be offended.

Just give it a shot.
OH, I've done plenty of TATE'ing in the past. And yes, it's that heavy. This TV scares me. It creeks pretty bad when you move it around like the outer case is about to come apart.

Add: Pretty sure it's a KV-27S66. I would have to check the tag again. Maybe I will roll it over for shits this weekend. I only paid $20 for it.
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Special World
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Re: Under Defeat HD

Post by Special World »

Do you guys play in normal or reverse? Reverse seems like the only viable choice for me, but maybe I'm not aggressive enough.
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