Please Explain The Brilliance Of Futari

[mjclark]

OK we're winning now!
So what about the original Mushihimesama? I get that Normal mode scoring is so simple there's no discussion but what about the other modes? There's basic chaining but according to the ST there's also a "child counter" on larger enemies which you can cash in. Can somebody who understands this please elaborate cos the ST seemed a little unsure and now I'm getting the feeling maybe I'm missing something here too.

[finisherr]

I haven't given Mushi Maniac scoring much of a chance (seems confusing though). I've only credit fed the game about 3 or 4 times in MAME. If Mushi HD hits the US then I might have to give it a sincere shot.

[BPzeBanshee]

I'm glad you brought this up mjclark.

Just saying, for the record. Personally it feels like Touhou to me as its not like the game itself is bad or anything but the fanboys making cum-tastic comments about it leave a foul taste.

....and I probably just stood on a few people's toes there. Sorry. Back to Raiden Fighters I go.

[Skykid]

Espgaluda II comes close to the visual score candy with its ingots, but the overall color palette is a little muted and doesn't quite shock the senses like Futari.

Doesn't shock the senses like Futari? Have you ever zesshikai'd and had X10,000's explode all over the screen until it's so overloaded it glitches out?

Hard to beat imo. :/

Personally it feels like Touhou

You're about to get damaged, but you made me chuckle.

[BPzeBanshee]

Personally it feels like Touhou

You're about to get damaged, but you made me chuckle.

Oh I know. I'm just waiting for the hating to roll in matey.

[Gus]

Doesn't shock the senses like Futari? Have you ever zesshikai'd and had X10,000's explode all over the screen until it's so overloaded it glitches out?

Hard to beat imo. :/

Espgaluda II vs. Futari BL is an interesting argument as you can pretty clearly tell whoever designed God mode was a big hand in making Espgaluda II or just really, really liked the game. At this point I'm honestly not sure which art style or scoring system I prefer but we're talking about eye candy here and I'd say that's a clear win for God mode. It pretty much does what Espgaluda II does on a larger scale and with flashier colors. And maybe they fixed it for the port but I have never had the screen glitch while scoring with 'x10,000s'. Are you sure you're not confusing it with Futari God

[Skykid]

And maybe they fixed it for the port but I have never had the screen glitch while scoring with 'x10,000s'. Are you sure you're not confusing it with Futari God

:strokes chin:

I know the glitch happens in original Galuda but I thought it was in II as well (I played it most on PCB.)

[mjclark]

Meanwhile I spent a bit of time with the first Mushihimesama and have just about got my head around this "counter banking" mechanic where tapping C shot adds the child counter values to the parent counter.
In itself this isn't a bad mechanic but what fucks it up is that there's no onscreen analogue display to represent it, just strings of numbers by the enemies. Unlike in Futari and most other CAVE games, the mechanic isn't "visualised" and that's what makes it seem obscure. If there were parent and child counter bars onscreen underneath the overall counter and you could see their values and colours changing as you banked the child counters then it might just be addictive too but as things stand it's just a headache. Very pretty though...

[dunpeal2064]

Just saying, for the record. Personally it feels like Touhou to me as its not like the game itself is bad or anything but the fanboys making cum-tastic comments about it leave a foul taste.

heh, there is much truth there. The hyp brings anti-hype, and we all forget that it doesn't have to be the greatest game ever for it to still be worth a look.

[dan76]

Meanwhile I spent a bit of time with the first Mushihimesama and have just about got my head around this "counter banking" mechanic where tapping C shot adds the child counter values to the parent counter.
In itself this isn't a bad mechanic but what fucks it up is that there's no onscreen analogue display to represent it, just strings of numbers by the enemies. Unlike in Futari and most other CAVE games, the mechanic isn't "visualised" and that's what makes it seem obscure. If there were parent and child counter bars onscreen underneath the overall counter and you could see their values and colours changing as you banked the child counters then it might just be addictive too but as things stand it's just a headache. Very pretty though...

Another way to look at it is that it's such a ridiculous system, with no clear on screen display it's easy to completely ignore the scoring and have a blast clearing it (Maniac mode). I find it one of the most enjoyable games to play for survival - pure twitch gaming heaven. I clear it every now and then, but not often enough that it becomes boring.

Futari doesn't really float my boat, though Black Label Maniac and God are probably my favourite modes. Vanilla Futari has weird pacing, some of it flows brilliantly, then other parts are fiddly. Dunno. Thought I was the only one.

[Obscura]

The thing I don't understand about Futari is the "Futari Original is easy!" meme. At the risk of sounding Planky, I'm pretty sure I could play it, and only it, for years and never make it to Larsa. Stage 3 is completely ridiculous (I literally do better in Ketsui's third stage), and the character choices are either "so slow that you can't hope to dodge anything" or "literally no spread on your unfocused shot".

Maybe Black Label is that different from 1.5?

[Estebang]

Yeah, I literally 1CCed Futari BL Original the second or third time I played it. It's much, much easier.

[blackoak]

Its just a matter of getting really comfortable with those patterns on st3... I once felt the same as you. Then one day it just came together, and I consistently NMNB through to st4 now. Though in general I agree that Futari 1.5 Original is not a particularly easy Cave clear. I sense that the people who say that have mastered the cutback skill in other games already, and I still lose lives on st4 and st5 in particular... just a guess though.

[chempop]

I dunno, Futari 1.5 Original was my first ever vert 1CC and I don't think it took much longer than a couple weeks. Come to think of it, most of these cave games only take a few weeks...

...Akai Katana is under-rated. Great looking game, and fun as anything else.

[Kiken]

And maybe they fixed it for the port but I have never had the screen glitch while scoring with 'x10,000s'. Are you sure you're not confusing it with Futari God

:strokes chin:

I know the glitch happens in original Galuda but I thought it was in II as well (I played it most on PCB.)

The 'x10,000s' are from ESPGaluda II Black Label. White label ESP2 has x500s when in Zetsushikai. And the glitching that you're thinking of (where the bonus item layer turns into a garbled mess of black & white television 'snow') is actually a sprite draw limitation of the custom PGM line, so you're only going to see it in DOJ, DOJ BL, Ketsui and ESPGaluda (it doesn't really occur in either DOJ or DOJ BL and only happens in a handful of locations in Ketsui, however, it's very prevalent in ESPGaluda). The later graphical glitching (it resembles more traditional 'sprite flicker'), can be found in the later SH3 titles that seriously push excessive amounts of data in each sprite layer simultaneously (DS MBL, DFK BL, Futari BL God Mode, etc).

[chempop]

There is all sorts of rediculous flicker in esprade too. Entire HUD disappears when pressing buttons at a few places every time... I think of it as Tetsuo freaking out a little.

[Skykid]

cleared it up

Ah cool, thanks for that. Last EspII I played was Yagawa's arrange last year, so I'm still stuck in that mode at the moment.

In fact, for shinies I'm pretty sure this beats all:

http://youtu.be/QYhamBg7ycw?t=13s

[Obscura]

Its just a matter of getting really comfortable with those patterns on st3... I once felt the same as you. Then one day it just came together, and I consistently NMNB through to st4 now.

Question about the giant beetles in this stage:

They start with that attack that's three fast "rings" of pink bullets. Is that aimed, random, or is there a blind spot? Every time I try to "experiment" to find a better way through than "try to reaction dodge it and pray", I die.

[TSJ]

Question about the giant beetles in this stage:

They start with that attack that's three fast "rings" of pink bullets. Is that aimed, random, or is there a blind spot? Every time I try to "experiment" to find a better way through than "try to reaction dodge it and pray", I die.

Original 1.5? Yeah, that attack can be nasty. I keep to the same side of the screen as the beetle, wait 'til he fires, then quickly move to the other side. Works a treat with Abnormal Palm. Not sure if you're playing Normal Reco, she's a bit slower.

[Obscura]

Question about the giant beetles in this stage:

They start with that attack that's three fast "rings" of pink bullets. Is that aimed, random, or is there a blind spot? Every time I try to "experiment" to find a better way through than "try to reaction dodge it and pray", I die.

Original 1.5? Yeah, that attack can be nasty. I keep to the same side of the screen as the beetle, wait 'til he fires, then quickly move to the other side. Works a treat with Abnormal Palm. Not sure if you're playing Normal Reco, she's a bit slower.

Yeah, I'm using Abnormal Palm.

I assume you're using laser for this? Or are you using shot for the faster move speed?

[TSJ]

Shot. always use shot when you need some speed. Once you've passed the first pattern, get in the beetle's face and laser him good. Should kill him before the next pattern can reach you!

[BareKnuckleRoo]

They start with that attack that's three fast "rings" of pink bullets. Is that aimed, random, or is there a blind spot? Every time I try to "experiment" to find a better way through than "try to reaction dodge it and pray", I die.

Do you mean these beetles?

Their initial 3 wave arc attack only looks scary; it's actually easy to dodge when you know how it works. All 3 of the spreads are aimed at you, however with the way the bullets are positioned the 2nd spread always aims a gap at you. If you can get in front of the beetles (if you can, kill off the enemies around it before it fires) you can simply tap left or right once as the first bullet approaches and the entire wave will miss you. I tried this out on training and it works even at max survival rank.

If you're at a 45 degree angle with respect to one of the beetles, make a slightly longer tap left or right (whichever's towards the beetle) just before the first bullet in the arc hits, works just as well. Really, the danger in this level seems to come more from the popcorn enemies and the giant woodlouses in the last half of the level filling the screen with shots.

[Hagane]

Futari is the one with the T-Rex as the first boss right? That thing looked as if came right out of Killer Instinct.

[burgerkingdiamond]

The thing I don't understand about Futari is the "Futari Original is easy!" meme. At the risk of sounding Planky, I'm pretty sure I could play it, and only it, for years and never make it to Larsa. Stage 3 is completely ridiculous (I literally do better in Ketsui's third stage), and the character choices are either "so slow that you can't hope to dodge anything" or "literally no spread on your unfocused shot".

Maybe Black Label is that different from 1.5?

hmmm. calling st 3 "ridiculous" is definitely approaching DTP territory. At the risk of seeming cocky here's a replay of my 1CC of Futari Original (Reco, normal).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dnndxw6X ... ature=plcp

skip to 6:15 for st 3. It's really not that bad. It has a lot in common with st 4 in that sometimes you just need to move to the bottom of the screen and wait for whatever you're shooting to blow up and let the bullets cancel (although the main thing about st4 is that you need to continually cut back left and right). I happened to no miss on this run, but typically I die maybe 50% of the time during the rollie pollies at the end. They can be tricky I admit.

[SolderFace]

I have 1.5 and BL. this was really the first vertical cave game for me on 360 after I played DDP and Ketsui on MAME. I'm buying a J xbox just for Ketsui. thats how much I love it. Mushihimesama would be perfect if all the bullets were not all pink or purple. overall I think the colors are just a little weird and over the top. there is an excessive use of white to highlight everything. the music sounds like it was made for a childrens TV show. but when you look at everything and compare it to other cave games, it has a lot of the stuff you get in a good cave game. lots of modes. its a longer game than ketsui. there is something in there for everyone. region free and larsa videos on youtube definitely pumped this game up a lot more.

[roker]

You're doing it wrong, man. Download Black Label and play God, one of the greatest games every made.

2nd post of the thread and someone said what needed to be said.

this has to be some kind of record.

I didn't need to sift through 20 pages of bullshit to get the one line that would make sense.

Pay the overpriced amount for the download, call work and tell them you'll be out for a few days, once you get into god mode, you become the game.

[Obscura]

its a longer game than ketsui.

Ketsui has two loops...

[TonK]

Futari is the one with the T-Rex as the first boss right? That thing looked as if came right out of Killer Instinct.

You do know your opinion no longer matters, right?

I own BL - and it's seriously fun.

But 1.5 is the better of the 2 IMO.

god is better than Ultra for sure. But 1.5's maniac and original are better than BL's.

Speaking of... anyone want to swap a 1.5 FK for a BL FK?

[Hagane]

You are mad cause you know it's true.