XBOX Next-Gen -> Anti-used-game technology?

[Cuilan]

You don't seem to know how the Japanese gaming market works.

You mean the world's 3rd largest market, which is becoming increasingly handheld-centric, and who's taste in games is quite different from most of the other markets? Why should Microsoft, who's major focus in gaming is the Western console market, care about Japan?

Wait, why are we arguing over a hypothetical situation that is highly unlikely to happen anyway?

[Friendly]

No, we are arguing about your hypothetical conclusion, which is even less likely to occur.

Japanese consumers buy games, quickly finish them and sell them (space is at a premium), and then use the money to buy new games.
Take this away and Japanese gamers would consume a lot less. Which is why Japanese companies would not support a console (western no less) like this exclusively and abandon their own.
Which would then lead to there being alternatives to the anti-used games system. Given the choice, most gamers won't buy a system that curbs their rights and takes money away from them.
Which wouldn't bode well for the anti-used game system.

[Jeneki]

This rumor has certainly been getting enough media attention in my local area. Even the classic rock radio station was complaining about it this morning.

Has Microsoft even said anything official about this yet? If it's fake, I'd think they'd want would say something before it blows any bigger.

[neorichieb1971]

I think its one of Microsofts "in a perfect world" scenarios.

[DJ Incompetent]

Now adays, the only games I get are used and mostly niche titles-because forking over $60 a pop for some dumbass's 160th generic Halo/Gow/CoD clone only reveals you as a blind sheep, just following the masses as they play right into the hands of greedy publishers- causing stagnation of creativity and inovation in the industry

This attitude of "I hate this generic shit BUT I HAVE TO BUY IT ANYWAY" is what makes gaming so disposable.

Gamestop is a black hole. It doesn't develop. It doesn't publish. It barely contributes to the game industry. It has....Kongrigate.
EA and Activision are total scumbags, yes. But at least they do create a "variety" of videogames. If used sales go away and these two companies double or triple in size, yes that sucks, but it also decreases the chances they would double-down on generic mainsteam titles and continue to take risks with their lesser development houses. I'd wager if used games were ended in this console generation, Bizarre Creations would likely get another shot at what they're actually good at and I'd probably be playing Geometry Wars 3.

Or a publisher/dev you actually like would make a couple more bucks.

[Friendly]

Do you really not get that people will have less disposable income to spend on new games if they can't sell unwanted old games, which means the volume of consumption will decrease which translates to decreased revenue for publishers?

(Ignoring for a moment the total immorality of taking away your customers' rights (no selling/lending/giving away) and the inevitable inability to enjoy older, out-of-print games)

It has....Kongrigate.

What is this I don't even

[DJ Incompetent]

No. They won't.
There will always be sales and discounts. There are constantly sales and discounts. You can get any disc game $30 or less eventually.

But you know that.
What this stupid argument is really about is breaking the cycle where people buy games at day 1, rush through the content as quickly as they can, then be first to Gamestop to get that trade-in value that makes the game half price or less. Spending any real time mastering a title depreciates your trade-in value down to $3. I want this cycle broken. Badly.

Let's not forget the online noise 2/5 of the time is about ____'s big free beta.



I agree with you that overall revenue across the industry would drop, but gamestop and ebay sales eliminated would still have publishers and developers profit more than they are now.

[Friendly]

I agree with you that overall revenue across the industry would drop

So why would anyone want a system that reduces revenue?

[DJ Incompetent]

For this particular scenario, it would benefit me, personally.

[Friendly]

No, it would not. While consumers would continue to buy their annual Modern Warfares, they would be much more hesitant to risk purchasing any un-established games from unknown or new developers. In turn this would lead to publishers being even less willing to risk experimenting with anything new, which would lead to fewer niche titles. But considering that you are here, I assume that's the stuff you like. Tough luck.

[burgerkingdiamond]

I like waiting a year and getting a game for dirt cheap.

[TrevHead (TVR)]

As someone who has been a PC gamer for over a decade im on DJ's side with this. I can still buy PC games cheap if I wait a little while or buy it dirt cheap on a special holiday steam sales

Personally ild rather see used games killed but still have disks rather than it all go DD simply because through competition between retailers prices can drop very low, and DD especially on consoles is monopolistic and prices are generally kept high.

Just take a look at AAA PC prices between steam and amazon all except when steam runs a 50% sale retail is much cheaper (atleast in the uk)

EDIT personally I cant see this happening on consoles because the first console that does will lose alot of sales due to gamers just buying the game on a different console which the retailers will support and the DRMed console will get hardly any shelf space just like PC games.

[Friendly]

This topic is about a video game system with anti-used-game technology, though.

[Estebang]

Yeah, if the Xbox Next has a LockWare equivalent but the Wii U and PS4 don't, it's curtains for Microsoft's console division.

[zaphod]

Gamestop really is the problem.

That, and the people that will blow through any game, and give up on any game that they cannot blow through because "it's too hard".

Yes, people like that exist.

YOu make the game too hard for them, they cheat so they can beat it fast, and if not they give up. You make the game difficult to 100% complete the first time through, they go grab the strategy guide to tell them where everything is and what to do. The game impossible to beat rapidly by any means? "Oh, it's boring."

You'd think this way of gaming would run you out of money fast, wouldn't ya. But thanks to large amounts of store credit you get from new release used games, a number of people do exactly this.

Gamestop has enabled these gamers to flourish, and why wouldn't they? They make money hand over first from them, at the expense of screwing up the demand projections for the software companies, and having them undersell and lose money.

Used game sales are actually WORSE than piracy for the bottom line, as we all know most pirates wouldn't have bought it anyway. Rentals, not so much. People rent games to try them, and because they can't afford to buy. but if these used zero day games weren't around people would buy new ones instead. The harm to the companies bottom line is obvious.

The issue is games ending up on the used market so soon. After production is stopped, the used game market is no threat to the game makers and publishers. Back in the days of the NES i don't remember publishers saying used game sales were killing the industry. That's because back then, store credit was small except for RARE games. People held onto games before selling them.

[Cuilan]

No, we are arguing about your hypothetical conclusion, which is even less likely to occur.

Japanese consumers buy games, quickly finish them and sell them (space is at a premium), and then use the money to buy new games.
Take this away and Japanese gamers would consume a lot less. Which is why Japanese companies would not support a console (western no less) like this exclusively and abandon their own.
Which would then lead to there being alternatives to the anti-used games system. Given the choice, most gamers won't buy a system that curbs their rights and takes money away from them.
Which wouldn't bode well for the anti-used game system.

You're assuming MS will even bother to release their next Xbox in Japan. Most Japanese publishers release games mainly on handhelds (or are going to very soon), and most of the major Japanese publishers who release console games are making them more and more Westernized to appeal to an international audience. The Japanese console market is a lot less important in the grand scheme of things that you seem to believe it is. In one of my hypothetical scenarios, I'm assuming that major 3rd party publishers (mainly Western ones), would go Xbox exclusive for their console games (not handheld ones), at least outside of Japan. I thought this was heavily implied since that scenario wouldn't have made sense otherwise.

Anyways, the point I was trying to make with my original post was that Microsoft would never do this unless they had the support of most of the industry in some form. And I still think the rumor is bullshit.

[Never_Scurred]

No, it would not. While consumers would continue to buy their annual Modern Warfares, they would be much more hesitant to risk purchasing any un-established games from unknown or new developers. In turn this would lead to publishers being even less willing to risk experimenting with anything new, which would lead to fewer niche titles. But considering that you are here, I assume that's the stuff you like. Tough luck.

Uh...demos?

And besides, I doubt anyone's life is gonna be ruined cause they can no longer buy 5+ games every six months.

[Estebang]

I have a strong suspicion that the Xbox Next will only offer fairly marginal improvements to graphics and processing: they've gotta keep costs down in the current economy. We'll probably never see a repeat of FIVE HUNDRED AND NINETY NINE US DOLLARS from any manufacturer. The focus will be on the Next's expanded set-top box capabilities and the bundled Kinect 2.

The PS4 is either a long way off (Sony says the Triple was intended to have a 10-year life cycle) or will never materialize at all.

[louisg]

The PS4 is either a long way off (Sony says the Triple was intended to have a 10-year life cycle) or will never materialize at all.

I'll be shocked if that turns out to be true, especially in light of the next XBox and Wii consoles. The whole "future proof" claim is a marketing maneuver for a very expensive console-- no generation has really been in the spotlight longer than 5 to 7 years, and we're approaching the 7 year mark for this crop of 2005/2006 consoles.

[ancestral-knowledge]

I like waiting a year and getting a game for dirt cheap.

No you won't be able to. All the copies will be sold out and you can't get one off ebay and simply play it because they have all been registered by the former owners. And as the years go by it will be harder and harder to find a copy of a rare game that isn't registered. The longer you wait the harder it will be.

This applies only to physical releases though (discs etc). I don't give a shit about downloadable crap content and even less about games that force you to stay online to play. That's why i am still waiting on a proper Futari BL release on a disc that i can play on another xbox when my xbox burns down or the fucking internet will get blown away by american internet terrorists that want to implement SOPA and PIPA and MOTHAFUCKA.

[Jeneki]

Don't forget how Microsoft feels about region free games. Let's say games have a one-time online activation code, what if they decide to IP-lock them? I hope nobody here likes to play import games.

[Casper<3]

I don't want a next box. I want several more years of a 360 and buy then, I hope they just release another revision of the 360 with improvements.

[ancestral-knowledge]

I don't want a next box. I want several more years of a 360 and buy then, I hope they just release another revision of the 360 with improvements.

another one? i mean there is already a second revision out which fixes most of the severe problems of the first release consoles. why should they do that?

[Paradigm]

That's why i am still waiting on a proper Futari BL release on a disc that i can play on another xbox when my xbox burns down or the fucking internet will get blown away by american internet terrorists that want to implement SOPA and PIPA and MOTHAFUCKA.

It's 1400 points. In the event of either of those things happening, you'll lose about $18.

Big. Fucking. Deal.

[ancestral-knowledge]

That's why i am still waiting on a proper Futari BL release on a disc that i can play on another xbox when my xbox burns down or the fucking internet will get blown away by american internet terrorists that want to implement SOPA and PIPA and MOTHAFUCKA.

It's 1400 points. In the event of either of those things happening, you'll lose about $18.

Big. Fucking. Deal.

Press about 10000 copies of Futari Black Label And Mushihimesma Matsuri on a Disc as a super duper limited edition and charge 60 $ for it. Watch it get sold out in about five minutes on the CAVE website.

Big. Fucking. Deal.

[cools]

PCB elitism > physical game elitism.

[ancestral-knowledge]

PCB elitism > physical game elitism.

you're right.

problem is that whenever an egret2/3 is for sale, the stupid seller doesn't simply wait like 2 weeks to get the highest bid. no he sells it to the first person that pm'ed him after 5 minutes. so yes, my 3 offers for about 1500 EUR for an egret 2/3 with shipping included were all rejected because someone asked earlier (WTF!) or he didn't want to ship. you guys at arcadeotaku are incredible.

[cools]

Kinda derailing the thread but the usual thing when selling cabs is that the seller wants it gone quickly, it's extremely rare for someone to hold out for the best offer. And the seller will normally take a substantial hit on price simply to not have to deal with transport - the unspoken rule for the past.... 15 years(?) has been that buyer arranges transport.

It's considered extremely bad form to agree a sale then reject it on the basis of a higher offer later. Gazumping is not accepted