Ketsui is too brutal

Aliquantic · Post by **Aliquantic** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 4:21 pm

You can continue and see Doom on the port, and I'm pretty confident you can continue as well on the PCB version (DOJWL is the only one that didn't allow that), though continuing on Doom itself can be... quirky

Gus · Post by **Gus** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 4:40 pm

Yeah, MrMonkeyMan has a vid up on Youtube of him fighting Doom in a credit feed run.

Siren2011 · Post by **Siren2011** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 5:21 pm

Yeah, MrMonkeyMan has a vid up on Youtube of him fighting Doom in a credit feed run.

I'm positive that he didn't credit feed to get there. On his youtube page, he uploaded an entire run of Ura loop and he dominated.

GOOD NEWS. My save state before DOOM left me with 3 lives and 3 bombs. And yet, I still managed to take DOOM down at last. Hardly commendable, since I essentially cheated to get there, but no continues were used during the fight and I was basically forced to learn many of his patterns. (the blue curvy lines and the first attack was the easiest out of the bunch, which saved me lives for more difficult parts.) It was exhilarating. AND DAT MUSIC! <3

captpain · Post by **captpain** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 5:50 pm

Siren2011 wrote:
Yeah, MrMonkeyMan has a vid up on Youtube of him fighting Doom in a credit feed run.
I'm positive that he didn't credit feed to get there. On his youtube page, he uploaded an entire run of Ura loop and he dominated.

GOOD NEWS. My save state before DOOM left me with 3 lives and 3 bombs. And yet, I still managed to take DOOM down at last. Hardly commendable, since I essentially cheated to get there, but no continues were used during the fight and I was basically forced to learn many of his patterns. (the blue curvy lines and the first attack was the easiest out of the bunch, which saved me lives for more difficult parts.) It was exhilarating. AND DAT MUSIC! <3

Soooooooooooo you wanna post that save state?

Siren2011 · Post by **Siren2011** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 6:13 pm

Sure thing, boss.

DOOM save state (Tiger Schwert):
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=VCKTXNFE

As the file name suggests, it's loaded by pressing F7, then the letter "Y". The MAME version I use with it is UI32 0.141, though it should work with any recent version, I think.

Have fun getting your asses kicked, guys.

Erppo · Post by **Erppo** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 6:30 pm

If you prefer lagless, here's an Ura loop start state for Shmupmame 2.2 (also Tiger Schwert): http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?bejgxz8bo66fnv6. You can just credit feed to Doom from there.

Siren2011 wrote:I'm positive that he didn't credit feed to get there. On his youtube page, he uploaded an entire run of Ura loop and he dominated.

Yeah, I'm sure he just normally got there with a score bit over 1000.

Siren2011 · Post by **Siren2011** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 6:41 pm

Yeah, I'm sure he just normally got there with a score bit over 1000.

lol. I seem to have missed that important detail.

I have not had any lag ever since I downloaded that version I mention above, so I suspect there should be no problems for everyone else, too.

Erppo · Post by **Erppo** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 6:46 pm

Siren2011 wrote:I have not had any lag ever since I downloaded that version I mention above, so I suspect there should be no problems for everyone else, too.

I meant the (tiny) input lag always present in normal Mame. I checked and that state isn't compatible with Shmupmame.

captpain · Post by **captpain** » Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:16 am

Siren2011 wrote: Have fun getting your asses kicked, guys.

Yay, thanks. I'm gonna try this out tomorrow morning when I'm fresh, a full pot of coffee at the ready.

Cuilan · Post by **Cuilan** » Tue Jan 10, 2012 12:46 pm

For the record, I'd just like to say that I rank Ketsui (360 port) as the 5th best Cave game I've played so far.

I've only played 7 Cave games.

Udderdude · Post by **Udderdude** » Tue Jan 10, 2012 12:50 pm

captpain wrote:
Siren2011 wrote: Have fun getting your asses kicked, guys. :wink:
Yay, thanks. I'm gonna try this out tomorrow morning when I'm fresh, a full pot of coffee at the ready.

That won't help you. You need to memorize pretty much everything and have a working plan to get around or cancel the revenge bullets, not be totally wired on caffiene. D:

Skykid · Post by **Skykid** » Tue Jan 10, 2012 1:39 pm

Cuilan wrote:For the record, I'd just like to say that I rank Ketsui (360 port) as the 5th best Cave game I've played so far.

I've only played 7 Cave games.

Since it's easily in Cave's top 3 of all time I'm not sure what you would rank above it, but for argument's sake I'd be interested to hear?

emphatic · Post by **emphatic** » Tue Jan 10, 2012 1:51 pm

Skykid wrote:easily in Cave's top 3

Paradigm · Post by **Paradigm** » Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:28 pm

Skykid wrote:Since it's easily in Cave's top 3 of all time I'm not sure what you would rank above it, but for argument's sake I'd be interested to hear?

To be fair, pretty much CAVE's entire back catalogue is excellent. As great as it is, I wouldn't say Ketsui is a nailed on top 3 game. I for one would rate Futari, DOJ and Ibara above it. Espgaluda II possibly up there also for its quirky scoring and boss bullet patterns which actually remind me a bit of Ketsui with their craziness.

In fact, for a company which people claim puts out similar games one after another, there's a hell of a lot of variety there and it all comes down to taste, of course. I could easily see people preferring the Raizing stuff, Progear, Guwange, Deathsmiles or even Dangun Feveron, since they all play very differently from one another.

I've got no qualms with people putting Ketsui up there though, it's a fantastic game.

Skykid · Post by **Skykid** » Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:46 pm

Paradigm wrote:As great as it is, I wouldn't say Ketsui is a nailed on top 3 game. I for one would rate Futari....above it.

'Scuse me while I scream into a pillow.

Each to their own. Ibara feels like a Raizing game, DOJ a Dodonpachi (I agree this is in the top 3) and Futari... a Dodonpachi too. Ketsui's patterns are both masterful and unique, and it's one of the purest examples of the genre imo.

Erppo · Post by **Erppo** » Tue Jan 10, 2012 3:06 pm

Skykid wrote:and Futari... a Dodonpachi too.

wat

Considering how differently these games play I really can't see where this comes from. Futari of course has several pretty different systems but none of them come close to the perfectionistic thing of DDP. The modes are more about singular scoring opportunities or maintaining the game long counter and getting on enemies' faces. Even the pattern style is quite different.

Eaglet · Post by **Eaglet** » Tue Jan 10, 2012 3:21 pm

Yeah. Scoring in the Mushi games take more inspiration from Ketsui actually, considering the whole pointy-blanky aspect of it.

Ketsui + Espgaluda = Mushi

Skykid · Post by **Skykid** » Tue Jan 10, 2012 3:24 pm

Erppo wrote:
Skykid wrote:and Futari... a Dodonpachi too.
wat

In terms of basic feel rather than scoring mechs.

Perhaps Futari's shot switching is a little less DDP than the original Mushi, but I always felt Ketsui's bullet types/patterns are quite unique for Cave stuff.

AntiFritz · Post by **AntiFritz** » Tue Jan 10, 2012 3:52 pm

Skykid wrote:
Erppo wrote:
Skykid wrote:and Futari... a Dodonpachi too.
wat
In terms of basic feel rather than scoring mechs.

Perhaps Futari's shot switching is a little less DDP than the original Mushi, but I always felt Ketsui's bullet types/patterns are quite unique for Cave stuff.

Feels like the bullets have minds of their own.

Skykid · Post by **Skykid** » Tue Jan 10, 2012 3:59 pm

AntiFritz wrote: Feels like the bullets have minds of their own.

Yeah that's it.

They're kind of organic and great fun to plough through. Keeps you on the edge of your seat as well, Ketsui is real heart-attack gaming.

CptRansom · Post by **CptRansom** » Tue Jan 10, 2012 9:00 pm

I love Ketsui's bullet patterns. Scoring in Ketsui makes me want to mimic my avatar (to be honest, it's because I just can't seem to grasp it).

emphatic · Post by **emphatic** » Tue Jan 10, 2012 9:06 pm

Scoring-wise, I always found E.S.P. Ra.De. to be the closest to Ketsui. Pointblank for a high multiplier then cash in on 16x multiplier, repeat. I'd love to see an E.S.P. Ra.De. Black Label with visible hitbox and even bigger multipliers all over the place.

Barrakketh · Post by **Barrakketh** » Tue Jan 10, 2012 9:11 pm

emphatic wrote:Scoring-wise, I always found E.S.P. Ra.De. to be the closest to Ketsui. Pointblank for a high multiplier then cash in on 16x multiplier, repeat. I'd love to see an E.S.P. Ra.De. Black Label with visible hitbox and even bigger multipliers all over the place.

The boss milking in Ra.De is boring and dumb.

Aliquantic · Post by **Aliquantic** » Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:00 pm

Barrakketh wrote:The boss milking in Ra.De is boring and dumb.

But fortunately not necessary for most of us who can't routinely no-miss the game, given the very low reward ratio... The nearly infinite bomb recharge trick (especially on stage 5-2) is pretty silly though and doesn't take much work at all for the points you get.

Illyrian · Post by **Illyrian** » Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:09 pm

The boss milking consists of just hitting the boss with only the special attack over and over right?

Barrakketh · Post by **Barrakketh** » Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:12 pm

Illyrian wrote:The boss milking consists of just hitting the boss with only the special attack over and over right?

Yep.

Cuilan · Post by **Cuilan** » Wed Jan 11, 2012 12:18 am

Skykid wrote:Since it's easily in Cave's top 3 of all time I'm not sure what you would rank above it, but for argument's sake I'd be interested to hear?

In order :

Deathsmiles 2 (360)
Deathsmiles (360)
Mushihime-sama Futari 1.5 (360)
Espgaluda (Arcade)
*insert Ketsui (360) here*
Guwange (360)
Dodonpachi (Arcade)

Note : this is an over-all ranking of these games with all elements factored in (scoring-system, modes, graphics, music, etc), though scoring system carries more weight than the other elements.

Skykid · Post by **Skykid** » Wed Jan 11, 2012 12:40 am

Cuilan wrote:
Skykid wrote:Since it's easily in Cave's top 3 of all time I'm not sure what you would rank above it, but for argument's sake I'd be interested to hear?
In order :

Deathsmiles 2 (360)
Deathsmiles (360)
Mushihime-sama Futari 1.5 (360)
Espgaluda (Arcade)
*insert Ketsui (360) here*
Guwange (360)
Dodonpachi (Arcade)

Note : this is an over-all ranking of these games with all elements factored in (scoring-system, modes, graphics, music, etc), though scoring system carries more weight than the other elements.

Your top 3 made me puke. Turn the table completely upside down and we're getting somewhere.

I know they say it's a matter of opinion but the fascist in me says it ain't.

Cuilan · Post by **Cuilan** » Wed Jan 11, 2012 1:10 am

Skykid wrote:Your top 3 made me puke. Turn the table completely upside down and we're getting somewhere.

I know they say it's a matter of opinion but the fascist in me says it ain't.

I see, so you prefer shmups with heavy amounts of convoluted/unintuitive meta-game...Guess we're never going to see eye-to-eye on this one...

Skykid · Post by **Skykid** » Wed Jan 11, 2012 1:25 am

Cuilan wrote: I see, so you prefer shmups with heavy amounts of convoluted/unintuitive meta-game...Guess we're never going to see eye-to-eye on this one...

I prefer hard sci-fi themes and plenty of guns over sexualised kids designed to pander to sad perverts as a POS.

I like more bullets and a steeper difficulty curve that offers a general equilibrium of scoring and progression, rather than making the scoring the primary aspect of challenge.

I like bullet hell to be undiluted, full-on, hellish bombardment, as the name suggests, and not softened so it appeals to Japanese guys who used to be men before they realised they didn't like sunlight and forgot how to speak to members of the opposite sex.

And there's no way on earth the structuring of Ketsui, Espgaluda, Dodonpachi or Guwange is as convoluted or unintuitive as it is in Deathsmiles or its sequel. That's just a misunderstanding folks get by not properly learning to play the games.

Hope that's all clear.

shmups.system11.org

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