Appreciation of 8ing/Raizing
Re: Appreciation of 8ing/Raizing
Aye mahou sounds good and is a great old school style shooter to , last stage always gives me hell.
Re: Appreciation of 8ing/Raizing
Garegga's music is a huge part of it's greatness, Stage 5 is possibly my favorite track as well. I used to be pretty big into Detroit techno, tech-house, and minimal techno, back in my DJ and rave days. One of the best sets I got to hear was DJ T1000, I danced my ass off that night for sure! My brother had interviewed him way back for a Baltimore based zine I believe (called Activated iirc), hmm maybe it was for a radio show, can't remember. I should really bust out my turntables again, I've been on the verge of selling them for a while now, but I know I'd regret it.
Anyway, about Raizing, I think Souky is under rated. The stages, music, weapon system, and bosses are all fantastic. I guess it lacks the fancy bullet patterns, but I like how different it is to most other shmups.
I've barely played any of the Mahou games, just fiddled with Dimahoo credit feeding. Seems wild, but on my crappy mame setup I have no chance.
Anyway, about Raizing, I think Souky is under rated. The stages, music, weapon system, and bosses are all fantastic. I guess it lacks the fancy bullet patterns, but I like how different it is to most other shmups.
I've barely played any of the Mahou games, just fiddled with Dimahoo credit feeding. Seems wild, but on my crappy mame setup I have no chance.
"I've had quite a few pcbs of Fire Shark over time, and none of them cost me over £30 - so it won't break the bank by any standards." ~Malc
Re: Appreciation of 8ing/Raizing
I think souky will become way more popular if the mame emulation ever gets better as the saturn emu is a nightmare not many ppl have saturns anymore and the ps1 port is no where near as good.
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Special World
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Re: Appreciation of 8ing/Raizing
This is more than a little off topic, but does anybody want to recommend me some highlight albums of this techno scene you guys are talking about? I'm trying to branch out my music tastes and this is as good a lead as one gets, really. If you don't wanna clutter up the topic, you can send me a PM.
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Re: Appreciation of 8ing/Raizing
Sure il do it pm mate .
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dunpeal2064
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Re: Appreciation of 8ing/Raizing
You should send that PM my way tooVamos wrote:Sure il do it pm mate .

Re: Appreciation of 8ing/Raizing
Ok mate will do give in a min .dunpeal2064 wrote:You should send that PM my way tooVamos wrote:Sure il do it pm mate .I'm quite interested.
Re: Appreciation of 8ing/Raizing
Every time before a medal drops, a small shot powerup drops. The powerups always come in the same order.Special World wrote:That's exactly what it is. I'm dodging all over and then I'm too far away to rush for the medal. I'll have to work on it.Vamos wrote:What are you having trouble with? main thing in garegga is being conscious of where yo are shooting as thats where the next medal will come from so for example if you are waving left to right loads you increase the chances of missing a medal or putting yourself in a tricky situation.Special World wrote:I can't medal for dick in Garegga
So when you see an enemy drop a small shot powerup, get ready for the next drop to be a medal. Sometimes it's better to deliberately not kill an enemy because you know it's going to drop an impossible medal.
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Special World
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Re: Appreciation of 8ing/Raizing
Ah, that's extremely helpful. So you'll always get the same amount of medals from enemies, and getting higher value medals quickly revolves around blowing up scenery, or what?
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MrChiggins
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Re: Appreciation of 8ing/Raizing
Yeah I'm so glad I bought it for my Saturn. I have Batsugun and Darius Gaiden as well but Souky easily takes the cake.Vamos wrote:I think souky will become way more popular if the mame emulation ever gets better as the saturn emu is a nightmare not many ppl have saturns anymore and the ps1 port is no where near as good.
Re: Appreciation of 8ing/Raizing
Special World, the medals just become more valuable with each one that appears, if one drops off screen, you start back over at 100pts. The medals from scenery are the same, they don't boost value any differently. By the time you finish off the big Tank in Stage 2 you should have chained all the medals and be receiving close to max points (10,000) per medal. Bomb the second before stage 3 begins for some extra medals...Sorry if I'm staying the obvious, just trying to help.
"I've had quite a few pcbs of Fire Shark over time, and none of them cost me over £30 - so it won't break the bank by any standards." ~Malc
Re: Appreciation of 8ing/Raizing
@Special World, everything that chempop said, and also:
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?t=351
Good thing you're playing Garegga, because it has one of, if not the best guides that has come out of this community (big ups Icarus). It looks daunting, but give it a read and most of your questions and curiosities will be answered.
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?t=351
Good thing you're playing Garegga, because it has one of, if not the best guides that has come out of this community (big ups Icarus). It looks daunting, but give it a read and most of your questions and curiosities will be answered.
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Special World
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Re: Appreciation of 8ing/Raizing
Nah, I got that. I was just asking if the way people reached the medal value plateau quicker was by bombing scenery, or if there was some way to force enemies to drop medals. I've actually read through the guide once or twice, it's just been a while. I probably shouldn't be asking questions here, but I like discussing things. I'll stop, though, for the sake of others.chempop wrote:Special World, the medals just become more valuable with each one that appears, if one drops off screen, you start back over at 100pts. The medals from scenery are the same, they don't boost value any differently. By the time you finish off the big Tank in Stage 2 you should have chained all the medals and be receiving close to max points (10,000) per medal. Bomb the second before stage 3 begins for some extra medals...Sorry if I'm staying the obvious, just trying to help.
Yagawa games are pretty damned boss, even those with Cave. I'm not huge on Ibara, but I played the subpar (?) PS2 version, so who knows. Hopefully he makes some more Raizing-style games with Cave someday, but that's a pipe dream.
Somebody should write 8ing and ask them for a 360 port of the Battle "Trilogy." It'd probably be fruitless, but I dunno if anybody's ever tried, and I don't know if anyone at 8ing knows that people care. It's worth a shot, imo.
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Re: Appreciation of 8ing/Raizing
If you're playing right, you should have 600-700 medal value by the end of Stage 1 - all your bombs should be saved for the flamingoes. The opening zeppelin in Stage 2 can be milked to increase medal value if you suicide on it. Medal value should be at least 2000 after this. Don't bomb in Stage 2 since you need to collect bomb fragments for killing off Madball.Special World wrote: Nah, I got that. I was just asking if the way people reached the medal value plateau quicker was by bombing scenery, or if there was some way to force enemies to drop medals. I've actually read through the guide once or twice, it's just been a while. I probably shouldn't be asking questions here, but I like discussing things. I'll stop, though, for the sake of others.
Scenery bombing only comes into play in the later stages. If you're thinking of the Yagawa game where bombing at the start can skyrocket medal value, that's Ibara

Re: Appreciation of 8ing/Raizing
captpain wrote:
Every time before a medal drops, a small shot powerup drops. The powerups always come in the same order.
So when you see an enemy drop a small shot powerup, get ready for the next drop to be a medal. Sometimes it's better to deliberately not kill an enemy because you know it's going to drop an impossible medal.

Re: Appreciation of 8ing/Raizing
Not that I know of. If you look up the credits to Castlevania Judgement you will find a lot of the Brave Blade staff however. Also before that time several Raizing people worked on Tekken Advance.Randorama wrote:Did any of the Brave Blade Staff move to Milestone, by chance?
Either we are reading different credits or neither person is in the credits for Chaos Field. As far as Toyama goes, the same year that Chaos Field came out he was supposed to have been basically a supervisor on Zatch Bell! Mamodo Battles and InuYasha: Feudal Combat so he definitely wasn't working on that game.Randorama wrote:Ok, can you confirm that Nakashima is *not* at Milestone? I am pretty sure that I misread the credit lists of Chaos Field, as I read his name and Toyama's, too.
Not heard that, but it's possible you are right.Randorama wrote:I know that one musician from Toaplan (can't recall his name, the Tatsujin guy) worked on both the two titles you mention. Do you know if now he has moved to Capcom as a producer?
Re: Appreciation of 8ing/Raizing
Castlevania Judgement..... I'm a big castlevania fans but that game was so boring, one of the worse fighting game I've played.
I'm surprised Raizing is still alive.... (sort of)
I'm surprised Raizing is still alive.... (sort of)
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Special World
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Re: Appreciation of 8ing/Raizing
I thought the flamingos come out of that forest in stage 2-- does bombing there multiple times cause more flamingos to come out of something?RNGmaster wrote:If you're playing right, you should have 600-700 medal value by the end of Stage 1 - all your bombs should be saved for the flamingoes. The opening zeppelin in Stage 2 can be milked to increase medal value if you suicide on it. Medal value should be at least 2000 after this. Don't bomb in Stage 2 since you need to collect bomb fragments for killing off Madball.Special World wrote: Nah, I got that. I was just asking if the way people reached the medal value plateau quicker was by bombing scenery, or if there was some way to force enemies to drop medals. I've actually read through the guide once or twice, it's just been a while. I probably shouldn't be asking questions here, but I like discussing things. I'll stop, though, for the sake of others.
Scenery bombing only comes into play in the later stages. If you're thinking of the Yagawa game where bombing at the start can skyrocket medal value, that's Ibara
And how does suiciding on the zeppelin increase medal value, exactly?
Reading through the Garegga guide is actually really fascinating-- that method of increasing shot rate is so brilliant I can't believe other games haven't adopted it.
ED: Ah, you bomb all the flamingos. Duh. I just downloaded some of those strategy replays, so ignore my questions

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Re: Appreciation of 8ing/Raizing
You bomb the castle at the beginning of Stage 2 once to release the flamingos. Attacking them in any manner gives you points. By far the most effective use of this is to drill them with the Golden Bat's flame, which will net you an easy extend if you focus the flames tightly enough.
Re: Appreciation of 8ing/Raizing
The zeppelin trick basically exploits your invulnerability after dying. Each of its sides release medals, so when you hover above it and blast the sides you are rapidly collecting medals which values are increasing. That said, I think I've pulled it off half-successfully once or twice. The timing doesn't really make much sense to me tbh, I think it's a difficult trick to get right.
"I've had quite a few pcbs of Fire Shark over time, and none of them cost me over £30 - so it won't break the bank by any standards." ~Malc
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Special World
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Re: Appreciation of 8ing/Raizing
How do I unlock the secret ships? I just have the base 4. (Wild Snail seems the best to me.)
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Re: Appreciation of 8ing/Raizing
insert coin , u,u,d,d,l,r,l,r a b c press start
Re: Appreciation of 8ing/Raizing
Gain (abc) and Miyamoto (c) are by far my favorite.
"I've had quite a few pcbs of Fire Shark over time, and none of them cost me over £30 - so it won't break the bank by any standards." ~Malc
Re: Appreciation of 8ing/Raizing
Batrider is about the only shmup I really played in any serious fashion, because everything is amazingly entertaining.
It really is a showcase how memorable the bosses as well as the stages are - the first stage alone has so many brilliant moments: Bombing cars and the subway through the giant hole in the street, tipping over signs, letting a huge sign drop on a house to release birds and trigger an extra boss later on, smash windows, bomb police cars... followed by that huge first stage boss that carries a ton of cash in the front and packs flamethrowers and rockets.
Compared to that I only really have vague memories of playing Cave games. Not that they don´t have brilliant moments as well - fighting the Vinogradov midboss in stage 3 in Ketsui is definitely a magic moment, and I really like the stage 3 boss in DDP, with its many different parts; but in, say, the Mushihimesama games all I can remember is big insects that act as a backdrop for pretty bullet patterns. In general, I think the recent Cave games are a bit too slick for their own good, and lack a certain "oomph" of older shmups.
And this Garegga video is my absolute #1 superplay of all time:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rq_3J2w8cAg
The option play alone makes this incredibly entertaining to watch.
I never really put any significant amount of time into Garegga myself, but just trying little tricks like the flamingo bombing is huge fun, or dissecting the stage 1 boss. In Garegga and Batrider, enemies and bosses just don´t spew pink squishy circles but attack with sharp pointy bullets, carry huge turrets and flamethrowers, or spew tiny ships, try to grab you with huge mechanical arms, kill you with morning stars or giant rockets. The graphics being rendered from a dead-on bird perspective instead of slightly tilted like in Cave games helps incorporate multi-sprite ememies with rotation effects that makes the bosses seem like actual machines.
And the scoring system in these two games doesn´t revolve around a single strategy, but deal with bombing, medal chaining, a few stage scenery tricks here and there, and carefully blowing away parts of bosses. To me this feels like I score in an actually logical way - cancelling bullets to increase a counter into the thousands certainly has appeal, but it feels a bit disjointed and abstract to me.
And to me, the suicide mechanic is a very refined concept: It´s not just about pure survival anymore, but finding a careful balance between saving lives and using them either in a defensive manner (to lower the rank) or aggressively (to gain bomb segments), or even to switch to a more suitable ship in your team selection in Batrider. It is much deeper than the usual boring "just never, ever die and never, ever bomb". (Bakraid took suiciding to score to such a grotesque climax that most players don´t even bother trying to learn it and instead play it for pure survival, which is a lot of fun in its own right - but in that game the suiciding works in a quite different way than in Garegga anyways.)
And now I really wish Yagawa would create a Batrider sequel, with another ship roster that rivals modern fighting games, tons of hidden stages and hidden bosses, boss cameos from other games (even Cave titles), and being able to mess around with enemies, bosses and scenery in a huge number of ways.
It really is a showcase how memorable the bosses as well as the stages are - the first stage alone has so many brilliant moments: Bombing cars and the subway through the giant hole in the street, tipping over signs, letting a huge sign drop on a house to release birds and trigger an extra boss later on, smash windows, bomb police cars... followed by that huge first stage boss that carries a ton of cash in the front and packs flamethrowers and rockets.
Compared to that I only really have vague memories of playing Cave games. Not that they don´t have brilliant moments as well - fighting the Vinogradov midboss in stage 3 in Ketsui is definitely a magic moment, and I really like the stage 3 boss in DDP, with its many different parts; but in, say, the Mushihimesama games all I can remember is big insects that act as a backdrop for pretty bullet patterns. In general, I think the recent Cave games are a bit too slick for their own good, and lack a certain "oomph" of older shmups.
And this Garegga video is my absolute #1 superplay of all time:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rq_3J2w8cAg
The option play alone makes this incredibly entertaining to watch.
I never really put any significant amount of time into Garegga myself, but just trying little tricks like the flamingo bombing is huge fun, or dissecting the stage 1 boss. In Garegga and Batrider, enemies and bosses just don´t spew pink squishy circles but attack with sharp pointy bullets, carry huge turrets and flamethrowers, or spew tiny ships, try to grab you with huge mechanical arms, kill you with morning stars or giant rockets. The graphics being rendered from a dead-on bird perspective instead of slightly tilted like in Cave games helps incorporate multi-sprite ememies with rotation effects that makes the bosses seem like actual machines.
And the scoring system in these two games doesn´t revolve around a single strategy, but deal with bombing, medal chaining, a few stage scenery tricks here and there, and carefully blowing away parts of bosses. To me this feels like I score in an actually logical way - cancelling bullets to increase a counter into the thousands certainly has appeal, but it feels a bit disjointed and abstract to me.
And to me, the suicide mechanic is a very refined concept: It´s not just about pure survival anymore, but finding a careful balance between saving lives and using them either in a defensive manner (to lower the rank) or aggressively (to gain bomb segments), or even to switch to a more suitable ship in your team selection in Batrider. It is much deeper than the usual boring "just never, ever die and never, ever bomb". (Bakraid took suiciding to score to such a grotesque climax that most players don´t even bother trying to learn it and instead play it for pure survival, which is a lot of fun in its own right - but in that game the suiciding works in a quite different way than in Garegga anyways.)
And now I really wish Yagawa would create a Batrider sequel, with another ship roster that rivals modern fighting games, tons of hidden stages and hidden bosses, boss cameos from other games (even Cave titles), and being able to mess around with enemies, bosses and scenery in a huge number of ways.
THE BULLETS ARE NOW DIAMONDS!
Re: Appreciation of 8ing/Raizing
I´m sure you are aware of this, thenchempop wrote:Garegga's music is a huge part of it's greatness, Stage 5 is possibly my favorite track as well. I used to be pretty big into Detroit techno, tech-house, and minimal techno, back in my DJ and rave days.

THE BULLETS ARE NOW DIAMONDS!
Re: Appreciation of 8ing/Raizing
I really want to enjoy Battle Garegga in a serious manner. As in, actually play for score/1cc/anything thats just not dicking around. But, I honestly cannot. The music is great, the graphics are great, the sound is great, and I really don't mind the whole rank system. But the thing's that really kill it for me are the controls and hitboxes.
The controls to me are very wonky. This is partly due to the fact that the game uses "rectangular" movement compared to "circular" movement. When I say circular and rectangular, I mean it like this. Most shmups nowadays (if not all) all use circular movement. Your character or whatever moves at the same speed no matter what direction you go. Garegga's rectangular movement means that you actually move faster when you move diagonally. Whether its intentional or not, this really screws me up. All ships feel either too fast or too slow to me. It makes it hard to maneuver and I doubt I'll ever get used to it. Before I even knew about these terms, I knew there was something up about Garegga that made me unable to play it as well as I thought I could.
The other thing is the hitboxes. The hitboxes on the ships are fine to be honest. My main gripe is the hitbox on the medals and items. Sometimes, Ill fly right under and medal trying to get it but NOPE, I still don't get it even though I touched it. It is extremely frustrating at times to completely miss a medal like that.
Where I stand, I've only made it to Black Heart with the Black Zeppelin. I've played the game for maybe 30 hours, most of which is just dicking around and part of it practice/runs. I've tried doing low-rank clears to semi-scoring ones. I REALLY wish I could enjoy it, I really do. Watching superplays of the game are a lot of fun and I always like trying to copy those manuevers. But, because of those reasons, I don't think I can.
Don't get me wrong, I really appreciate Garegga for what its done to shmups, and Yagawa's other games are great (MMP is fucking amazing and I really like Ibara which seems to get the whole movement thing right), but I really just can't enjoy it in a serious sense. It's just a game that no matter how much time I put into it, I'll never get good at it.
The controls to me are very wonky. This is partly due to the fact that the game uses "rectangular" movement compared to "circular" movement. When I say circular and rectangular, I mean it like this. Most shmups nowadays (if not all) all use circular movement. Your character or whatever moves at the same speed no matter what direction you go. Garegga's rectangular movement means that you actually move faster when you move diagonally. Whether its intentional or not, this really screws me up. All ships feel either too fast or too slow to me. It makes it hard to maneuver and I doubt I'll ever get used to it. Before I even knew about these terms, I knew there was something up about Garegga that made me unable to play it as well as I thought I could.
The other thing is the hitboxes. The hitboxes on the ships are fine to be honest. My main gripe is the hitbox on the medals and items. Sometimes, Ill fly right under and medal trying to get it but NOPE, I still don't get it even though I touched it. It is extremely frustrating at times to completely miss a medal like that.
Where I stand, I've only made it to Black Heart with the Black Zeppelin. I've played the game for maybe 30 hours, most of which is just dicking around and part of it practice/runs. I've tried doing low-rank clears to semi-scoring ones. I REALLY wish I could enjoy it, I really do. Watching superplays of the game are a lot of fun and I always like trying to copy those manuevers. But, because of those reasons, I don't think I can.
Don't get me wrong, I really appreciate Garegga for what its done to shmups, and Yagawa's other games are great (MMP is fucking amazing and I really like Ibara which seems to get the whole movement thing right), but I really just can't enjoy it in a serious sense. It's just a game that no matter how much time I put into it, I'll never get good at it.
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dunpeal2064
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Re: Appreciation of 8ing/Raizing
About the hitbox probelm, I think maybe the items are hard for you to colelct because you are choosing the smaller hitbox?
If I remember correctly, you can either play the normal hitbox and have a much easier time picking things up, but have a harder time dodging, or you can pick the small hitbox, dodge better, but have a less chance of picking up items.
I don't really find it a problem, but then again, I've only ever made it to stage 5 in this beast of a game.
If I remember correctly, you can either play the normal hitbox and have a much easier time picking things up, but have a harder time dodging, or you can pick the small hitbox, dodge better, but have a less chance of picking up items.
I don't really find it a problem, but then again, I've only ever made it to stage 5 in this beast of a game.
Re: Appreciation of 8ing/Raizing
Stage 6 is the real hurdle , keep going though 30 hrs really is nothing for garegga .
Re: Appreciation of 8ing/Raizing
I've been on hiatus with this game for a while, I need to get back on that 1cc. I can hit stage 6 fairly consistently, but I'm starting to dread the idea of finally confronting BH2 in actual runs.
I have a lot more than 30 hours into this game, I'd say that after you overcome the initial phase of just getting your bearings in the game the first actual hurdle is the turret wall, and it's one I still struggle with. I can do pretty well in practice but hitting that point in a real run just shakes me up too much to perform. Need to just keep at it.
I have a lot more than 30 hours into this game, I'd say that after you overcome the initial phase of just getting your bearings in the game the first actual hurdle is the turret wall, and it's one I still struggle with. I can do pretty well in practice but hitting that point in a real run just shakes me up too much to perform. Need to just keep at it.

1CC List To miss is human; to rank control, divine.
“Fly to live and shoot ‘em all!” – Manabu Namiki
Re: Appreciation of 8ing/Raizing
Battle Garegga is an evil son of a bitch of a game. You really should carefully read the ST thread, and make actual practice out of your play, because otherwise you're close to just banging your head on the wall.
But, you could be encouraged by someone like dinosaurjerk, who could barely do a thing in shmups like a year ago and just now got a letter score in Garegga. So keep at it.
But, you could be encouraged by someone like dinosaurjerk, who could barely do a thing in shmups like a year ago and just now got a letter score in Garegga. So keep at it.