I'm surprised to hear you like it so much (if that's what you're saying), as I would have expected to see a high score from you on a game that you like so much.Rob wrote:Perfect shmup topic, the time to display Ikaruga love.
Perfect shmups
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professor ganson
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Yeah, that's just sarcasm at the no Ikaruga love until A.) the annual top 25 topic and B.) perfect shmup topic. People seem to appreciate this game "technically," but why? There are many better looking games (Cave's, Raiden DX, Gradius V, etc. etc.) and games just as meticulous, except as in the case of games like MM, more versatile (which would show a better basic concept).
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thesuperkillerxxx
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Ikaruga is a perfect execution of its concept, but I don't think the concept is perfect in and of itself.
I'd probably go with DoDonPachi. I'm ot a huge Cave fan, but this game is, in my opinion, the perfect mixture of score-based play and survival play. Hard to master, but easy to get into.
I'd probably go with DoDonPachi. I'm ot a huge Cave fan, but this game is, in my opinion, the perfect mixture of score-based play and survival play. Hard to master, but easy to get into.
Last edited by sethsez on Mon Aug 22, 2005 9:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I said nothing about reputation, just gave my opinion. By commenting on Ikaruga I was not excluding anything else either, I was merely saying that I think Ikaruga is perfection *on its own*, not in comparison with other games.Rob wrote:How did a game with bland corridors and crates as "enemies" get a reputation for great graphics.
Second, how about a chaining game where it's possible to ignore and still have some fun (DDP) or a chaining system far more versatile (Mars Matrix)? Surely these games are just as meticulously planned, except they have options other than chain/skip the chain.
Bill
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professor ganson
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^^^Bill, Rob wasn't singling you out. Ikaruga has been receiving a lot of praise in this thread.
OK, I wasn't sure whether you were being sarcastic until I saw your second entry. I have the same reaction to Ikaruga myself. Yes, the graphics are really polished, but I don't find them especially artisitic or imaginative, even compared to other Treasure games. And yes, the game's gimmick is really well implemented, but--- to use a word I very much hesitate to use--- the game doesn't feel as deep to me as some of my favorites. It's a great game, but when I want to shmup on my GC, 9 times out of 10 I will go for SnS II.Rob wrote:Yeah, that's just sarcasm at the no Ikaruga love until A.) the annual top 25 topic and B.) perfect shmup topic. People seem to appreciate this game "technically," but why? There are many better looking games (Cave's, Raiden DX, Gradius V, etc. etc.) and games just as meticulous, except as in the case of games like MM, more versatile (which would show a better basic concept).
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pixelcorps
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To me, it's debatable that Ikaruga is the perfect shmup. I can appreciate it as a piece of art and design, but as a game, it's kind of meh. No freedom of strategy, all mechanical action and over-memorisation.
For me, it's tied between Garegga and Border Down. Not for the way they look, but for the way they play. Total strategic freedom; infinite replayability; immense, immersive fun; unconventional techniques; incredibly demanding. Out of all I own, the two I return to, time and time again.
For me, it's tied between Garegga and Border Down. Not for the way they look, but for the way they play. Total strategic freedom; infinite replayability; immense, immersive fun; unconventional techniques; incredibly demanding. Out of all I own, the two I return to, time and time again.
The mechanization is what makes it perfect. Whether or not that gameplay style is preferred is debateable and completely comes down to personal taste. Rob mentioned Mars Matrix as a game that's just as meticulous when it's a completely different kind of meticulous. MM is much looser, and as Rob mentioned more versatile. One could arguable design a game that played just as tight as Ikaruga with the same game mechanics (and Ikaruga more versatile), so no, it doesn't prove the underlying concept is better, just that the concept is applied differently through the design.Icarus wrote:To me, it's debatable that Ikaruga is the perfect shmup. I can appreciate it as a piece of art and design, but as a game, it's kind of meh. No freedom of strategy, all mechanical action and over-memorisation.
The difference between a game like Mars Matrix and Ikaruga is like the difference between jazz musicians improvising and a classical composer sitting and mapping out his music before a note is played. Whether one is better is up to taste (which, ultimately is what the thread is).
Feedback will set you free.
captpain wrote:Basically, the reason people don't like Bakraid is because they are fat and dumb
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ROBOTRON
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If thats the case then I choose Einhander.the2bears wrote:Perfection is highly opinionated
For pure brilliance in level design I think Ikaruga is perfect. To chain or not, and if so the challenge and variety in groupings of three. Art in its essence if you ask me. It doesn't hurt that it has great sound and graphics too
Bill
Chaining, shmaining.
Fight Like A Robot!
I think there's a very important difference between "best" and "favorite," or in this case between "perfect" and "favorite." For example, I think Gradius Gaiden is about the best shmup I've played, but my favorite is (currently) Shikigami no Shiro II. My favorite band is Pink Floyd, but I'm not about to say they're the best band ever.D wrote:Another disguised "what's YOUR fav shmup" thread.
The best is what you see as, well, better than all others. But that doesn't mean you like it better than all others. You should be able to differentiate between what your personal preference is and what you objectively see as superior to something else.
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howmuchkeefe
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I like Gradius V more than I do Ikaruga, I really do. I play it more than I do Ikargua, I have more fun with it than I do Ikaruga. However, Gradius V is not as perfect and cohesive a game as Ikaruga is. Take the anomolous (but fun) stage 4, or the awkward and unaviodable break in the action during stage 2, or the totally imbalanced (but fun) spread bombs.Another disguised "what's YOUR fav shmup" thread.
The option system is really cool and, along with Gradius V's levels, it's well designed and balanced, much more so than R-Type Final is in these categories, but I feel that the game is less balanced and less perfectly designed than Ikaruga is. Perhaps this is a consequence of Gradius V having ship customization options, while Ikaruga has none.
Gradius V is a bad ass comic book series to Ikaruga's sophisticated and imposing James Joyce.
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The Eidolon
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Ikaruga seems to just about perfectly accomplish what it sets out
to do, but what it does isn't exactly what I crave in a Shmup.
Raiden II or Twin Cobra come much closer to my ideal of what
a shmup should "feel" like as you play.
R-Type has just about perfect game play (I love how they did the
force and the charge shot) but the level design makes it just shy
of perfection--the near-imposible setback points on levels 6 and
especially 7 make it nearly a one-life/one game type of game. It's
nearly impossible to get back on track if you lose a life at certain
points, which makes scoring extra ships less satisfying.
--The Eidolon
to do, but what it does isn't exactly what I crave in a Shmup.
Raiden II or Twin Cobra come much closer to my ideal of what
a shmup should "feel" like as you play.
R-Type has just about perfect game play (I love how they did the
force and the charge shot) but the level design makes it just shy
of perfection--the near-imposible setback points on levels 6 and
especially 7 make it nearly a one-life/one game type of game. It's
nearly impossible to get back on track if you lose a life at certain
points, which makes scoring extra ships less satisfying.
--The Eidolon
I dont believe in perfection, but 4 that are pretty close in my mind are: Raiden, Thunder force 3, Dodonpachi and Batsugun.
Never liked Ikaruga meself, to me its the pixillated equivalent of a high-maintenance woman. It looks pretty enough but is too concerned with its own appearance and you have to remember long lists of things to make it happy.
Never liked Ikaruga meself, to me its the pixillated equivalent of a high-maintenance woman. It looks pretty enough but is too concerned with its own appearance and you have to remember long lists of things to make it happy.
"What the hell kind of a two-bit operation are they running out of this treehouse, Cooper? I have seen some slip-shod, backwater burgs, but this place takes the cake."
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