Gadaffi on parade

[Skykid]

Gadaffi can't be used to inspire donations and support for assholes who want to kill you. He is seen as a dog by almost everyone.

This isn't case with OBL. The only downside to discreetly getting rid of him is that people already crying conspiracy would cry it more. No big loss at all. I recall a few truther-esque postes in the truther thread from current company.

Ugh.

These words, 'truther', 'conspiracy theorist', 'tinfoil hat', 'denier' are actually making me feeling nauseous with their constant regurgitation at any given opposition to the mainstream story.

You'd think smart folk like yourselves would actually be able to disassociate harebrained conjecture from glaringly obvious missing links.
We walked that road thoroughly. There's no 'conspiracy' theorists here so please drop it from the argument. It's an examination of missing evidence that should by all accounts exist in the public domain, and a questioning as to why it doesn't.

I ain't got a fucking crystal ball. I'm not proposing I know exactly what happened to OBL: I'm only proposing what didn't happen based on a personal assessment, nothing more.

I'm all for heated argument, but not if we have to keep jumping 'truther' hurdles. That's just lame.

[antron]

my apologies. but you must admit that this is probably how you are viewed by those who make such decisions.

It's an examination of missing evidence that should by all accounts exist in the public domain

why? what right do you have to demand that? they only do what they think will benefit the US (or themselves) the most.

[Skykid]

my apologies. but you must admit that this is probably how you are viewed by those who make such decisions.

If that's genuinely the case then I can categorically say that folks don't have any reasonable capacity of judgement (I'm not writing in 'read between the lines' code) or they simply don't read posts before answering. I'd wager the latter.

It's an examination of missing evidence that should by all accounts exist in the public domain

why? what right do you have to demand that? they only do what they think will benefit the US (or themselves) the most.

Everyone has a right to transparency in a democracy antron, don't they? Even though it's to be expected that most governments, democratic or otherwise, are full of shit at one point or another, when there are sizeable issues at stake (9/11) people have a right to expect the elected body to behave entirely in their interests. That doesn't include large scale public deception and lies.

I'm not saying that the morale boosting "we got him" isn't in the best interests of the US: it prompts a closure of the war, which is something everyone wants. But by god if it's a lie, then what on earth is the truth?!

Besides, the rabbit hole runs so deep over the last decade it's near bottomless. Questionable erosion of civil rights, patriot acts, guantanamo abuses, and OBL the effigy and the ghost. All I know for 100% sure is that two buildings got hit by planes and fell down - everything else is anyone's guess.

[neorichieb1971]

Americans don't ask questions. Well perhaps in private they do but in the public domain they never do.

[xbl0x180]

Thing is, the U.S. government is only beholden to the rich and powerful; that's how the system is set up. They haven't answered to the people they're supposed to represent for many decades. If perchance, the people happen to benefit from the govt.'s policies or they happen to receive an answer to their inquiry it is a mere unintended result of the govt. helping the rich and powerful (and themselves)

[brentsg]

Ha, Skykid uses another dictator's death to revive his OBL bullshit.

[Skykid]

Thing is, the U.S. government is only beholden to the rich and powerful; that's how the system is set up. They haven't answered to the people they're supposed to represent for many decades. If perchance, the people happen to benefit from the govt.'s policies or they happen to receive an answer to their inquiry it is a mere unintended result of the govt. helping the rich and powerful (and themselves)

Which is probably why you'll always find far more transparency and, dare I say it, truth, when confrontations are handled by the people, as we've seen in Egypt and Libya most recently. I mean Jesus, they went and got a bunch of guns, pleaded for western support, and took their country back. Then they hunted the guy down and executed him and his son, videoed and photographed him, dragged him through the street and stuck him on ice in a shopping centre for the peoples viewing pleasure.

There's definitely a twisted irony in there somewhere.

OBL bullshit.

You said it.

[antron]

Everyone has a right to transparency in a democracy antron, don't they?

it's not in our constitution. do you know of a country that guarantees full transparency as a right? sounds like nonsense.

[Skykid]

Everyone has a right to transparency in a democracy antron, don't they?

it's not in our constitution. do you know of a country that guarantees full transparency as a right? sounds like nonsense.

Which I agreed and clarified in like, the next subsequent line.

Remember that thing I said about folk not reading posts? (Or did you miss that bit?)

[MX7]

9/11 is Battle Garegga done right.

<3

[antron]

Everyone has a right to transparency in a democracy antron, don't they?

it's not in our constitution. do you know of a country that guarantees full transparency as a right? sounds like nonsense.

Which I agreed and clarified in like, the next subsequent line.

ok, let me continue to guess what you meant in your question to me. is it that we have a natural right to have full transparency in "democracy" (by which mean free society)

[Skykid]

ok, let me continue to guess what you meant in your question to me. is it that we have a natural right to have full transparency in "democracy" (by which mean free society)

You wanted to know why anyone had a right to be told the truth. I used the word 'democracy' in it's literal sense: equality through transparency. I then went on to clarify that of course that never actually happens, because governments are corrupt and full of shit. Hence this thread.

[antron]

literal "sense"? what's that?

literal meaning is "rule of the people"

if you believe what you say, you sort of remind me of a christian who claims to "turn the other cheek" and to not "live by the sword".

does everyone get to have the missile launch codes? or a key to the diesel fuel and fertilizer storage? blueprints to the pentagon? it's just information.

[Skykid]

does everyone get to have the missile launch codes? or a key to the diesel fuel and fertilizer storage? blueprints to the pentagon? it's just information.

Don't look now, but you're totally missing the point.

Again.

[antron]

does everyone get to have the missile launch codes? or a key to the diesel fuel and fertilizer storage? blueprints to the pentagon? it's just information.

Don't look now, but you're totally missing the point.

Again.

of course! I must be. The idea of a fully transparent government is obviously impractical. Therefore the people being allowed to line up and view Gadaffi's corpse are being given a privilege, not a right. The decision to allow that was made by the current powers that be in Libya, based on what they think is best for themselves and their country. Obama just made the other choice, for his own particular circumstances. What could Obama, or the US possibly have gotten out of being candid? Appease you?

[xbl0x180]

We would've gotten proof that he was dead. It's pretty cool, esp. in light of the fact that's what they were reporting. Otherwise, why bother "reporting" about this in the first place? Dude even went on the tellie to give a speech about it - and then no proof, no pictures, no nothing. How anticlimactic.

Hopefully, he'll truly deliver when they finally take us out of the two invasions over in Iraq and Afghanistan

[antron]

He reported it to get a bump in approval ratings.

[Skykid]

He reported it to get a bump in approval ratings.

Dude, do you know what you sound like? Apart from nearly always steering the debate completely off course into some random tangent your statements tend to ignore the obvious to the nth degree.

I mean:

The decision to allow that was made by the current powers that be in Libya, based on what they think is best for themselves and their country. Obama just made the other choice, for his own particular circumstances. What could Obama, or the US possibly have gotten out of being candid? Appease you?

"For his own particular circumstances"

That's absolutely unequivocally ridiculously patently absurd.

"What could Obama, or the US possibly have gotten out of being candid?"

Do you actually need people to answer these questions for you?

[xbl0x180]

He reported it to get a bump in approval ratings.

Hahaha. Except he forgot to provide proof. It's tantamount to him going on the tellie and reporting that unemployment is now back to pre-bush levels. Would you take the govt. at their word?

[antron]

He reported it to get a bump in approval ratings.

Hahaha. Except he forgot to provide proof. It's tantamount to him going on the tellie and reporting that unemployment is now back to pre-bush levels. Would you take the govt. at their word?

he got the bump. and political annalist all agree that he is essentially untouchable on the national security issue.

[xbl0x180]

People in general have no clue about "national security." They'd gladly hand out their rights to the govt., they're that stupid

[Skykid]

People in general have no clue about "national security." They'd gladly hand out their rights to the govt., they're that stupid

And they do too.

[Moniker]

So is the working hypothesis here that bin Laden died of kidney failure five years ago, they recently found his vulture-picked corpse in pakistan somewhere, and Obama decided to lie and say he told someone to shoot the prick?

Just wanna get my facts straight.

[xbl0x180]

I haven't given a damn about bin laden for a long time. He's like some long-forgotten radical muslim boogeyman the govt. uses to distract people. Bin laden pretty much ran his usefulness for people to buy in on the "war on terror," so they killed him off - like some extraneous comic book character

[Moniker]

I haven't given a damn about bin laden for a long time. He's like some long-forgotten radical muslim boogeyman the govt. uses to distract people. Bin laden pretty much ran his usefulness for people to buy in on the "war on terror," so they killed him off - like some extraneous comic book character

I hope you realize how grossly insensitive that is, and don't repeat it when talking to actual people. Web anonymity ftw again...

[xbl0x180]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8y06NSBBRtY

What would you know about being sensible? Was your life, or that of your loved ones, ever impacted by U.S. "foreign policy"? Every bit of liberty, every luxury people here enjoy, along with their peace of mind, their good health and food, was paid for with the lives of thousands of unknowns.

It's not about being anonymous. I can say this anywhere now - LOUDLY, even [and I very much do]. There was a time when just implying such sentiments would've gotten me sent to some clandestine dungeon with CIA-trained torturers at the ready.

Code: Select all

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Hemisphere_Institute_for_Security_Cooperation

[antron]

"For his own particular circumstances"

That's absolutely unequivocally ridiculously patently absurd.

"What could Obama, or the US possibly have gotten out of being candid?"

Do you actually need people to answer these questions for you?

I knew you couldn't answer that.

[Skykid]

I haven't given a damn about bin laden for a long time. He's like some long-forgotten radical muslim boogeyman the govt. uses to distract people. Bin laden pretty much ran his usefulness for people to buy in on the "war on terror," so they killed him off - like some extraneous comic book character

I hope you realize how grossly insensitive that is, and don't repeat it when talking to actual people. Web anonymity ftw again...

I don't see any insensitivity in there at all. I stopped giving a damn about him as soon as I realised he had become more of an excuse than a perpetrator. That and the fact that nobody really seemed to want to mention him much during the decade long debacle. He sort of got sidelined until required.

So is the working hypothesis here that bin Laden died of kidney failure five years ago, they recently found his vulture-picked corpse in pakistan somewhere, and Obama decided to lie and say he told someone to shoot the prick?

Just wanna get my facts straight.

Who knows? That kidney failure story was widely touted by... people proposing 'alternative' theories as to his whereabouts. There was about as much raw evidence to suggest he had died of a well documented medical illness as there was that he was hidden in a cave with his cronies somewhere. Take your pick.

I don't think Obama did anything with the corpse though, or else we might have seen it.

I knew you couldn't answer that.

That was a choice. Saves the letters on my keyboard from fading over time.

[Moniker]

What would you know about being sensible? Was your life, or that of your loved ones, ever impacted by U.S. "foreign policy"

I think so. My best friend is half-Japanese, and my first love was South Korean. One grandfather fought in the pacific, and the other in the Korean war. Such connections don't escape me. I've also known a woman from Vietnam, had several close friends from Palestine (one of whom is now buried there) and Jordan. Another friend born in Israel (didn't get along with the Palestinians), some classmates from Saudi Arabia, mmm... that's all that's coming to me for now.

All of which doesn't matter in the least. The tragedy of 9/11 is no less tragic in view of the Trail of Tears, Iran Contra, or the Soviet war in Afghanistan. A life is a life, and only trolls or single-minded adolescents would belittle the deaths of the 9/11 victims or the impact of those who carried out the attack.

So go ahead and proclaim it from the rooftops for all I care, brave sir. You won't end up in Gitmo, but you'll still be an asshole.

[Skykid]

All of which doesn't matter in the least. The tragedy of 9/11 is no less tragic in view of the Trail of Tears, Iran Contra, or the Soviet war in Afghanistan. A life is a life, and only trolls or single-minded adolescents would belittle the deaths of the 9/11 victims or the impact of those who carried out the attack.

So go ahead and proclaim it from the rooftops for all I care, brave sir. You won't end up in Gitmo, but you'll still be an asshole.

You've taken his comment way out of context. Why are you assuming that he's belittling the deaths of 9/11 victims? He didn't say anything of the sort.

You can still be cynical about historical US Foreign Policy and skeptical about OBL without being insensitive to victims of terrorism.