Whats the best HDMI / Component / VGA video capture device?

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dieKatze88
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Re: Whats the best HDMI / Component / VGA video capture device?

Post by dieKatze88 »

StarCreator wrote:dieKatze88, have you had a chance to test the AverTV HDCP workaround I linked to a few posts back? Haven't had time to mess with it myself.
I have not. The main reason for this, is my HDMI splitter's input light indicates that my Xbox 360 is outputting HDCP Encrypted Frames (Which should be a lie) and Flash Media Encoder is capturing and reencoding them anyway.

Oh that and I'm fucking lazy. That could be part of it.

I'll try to get to it on the 11th.
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Fudoh
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Re: Whats the best HDMI / Component / VGA video capture device?

Post by Fudoh »

Capture 1 : 720p59,94 source, CBR mode, 20 Mb/s bitrate, 151 MB filesize
Capture 1 : 720p59,94 source, VBR mode, 20 Mb/s bitrate (24 Mb/s peak), 129 MB filesize
I'm surprised how much macro-blocking is visible in both captures. Other than that, pretty ok for a quick capture.

Would you mind doing a few 480i captures for me ? 2mbit / 5mbit / 7mbit if possible. Would be nice ! For an upcoming capture project I'm still undediced wether you capture to h.264 directly or use the BMD and do a software compression afterwards.
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akumajo
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Re: Whats the best HDMI / Component / VGA video capture device?

Post by akumajo »

not possible for 480i, only 480p or higher
want Wii@480p + virtual console game ?
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Fudoh
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Re: Whats the best HDMI / Component / VGA video capture device?

Post by Fudoh »

480p is double the data... Can you limit the recording to 29.97fps instead of 59.94fps ?

If yes, 480p is fine as well, if not - maybe you could do a direct 480i component recording at some point (directly into the Colossus) ?

My source would be Laserdisc, so I'm especially interested at 2/5/7mbit for 480i60 or 480p30.
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akumajo
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Re: Whats the best HDMI / Component / VGA video capture device?

Post by akumajo »

the problem is physical... capture device is at 10meter from upscalers and consoles, maybe I will try with psp + component

It's not possible to limit recording at 29.97 fps. I'm currently using Arcsoft Showbiz.

30 seconds Super Metroid on Wii
Colossus_720p_Wii-Metroid_CBR_2Mb
Colossus_720p_Wii-Metroid_CBR_5Mb
Colossus_720p_Wii-Metroid_CBR_7Mb
Colossus_720p_Wii-Metroid_CBR_12Mb

note that capturing at 480p or 720p dont change much filesize
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Fudoh
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Re: Whats the best HDMI / Component / VGA video capture device?

Post by Fudoh »

thanks !
note that capturing at 480p or 720p dont change much filesize

would be weird if it would, wouldn't it ? 12mbit/s are 12mbit/s, no matter what's the resolution beneath ;)
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akumajo
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Re: Whats the best HDMI / Component / VGA video capture device?

Post by akumajo »

of course, but I was asked some odd questions in private :)
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akumajo
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Re: Whats the best HDMI / Component / VGA video capture device?

Post by akumajo »

btw, software options for Colossus are WinTV and Arcsoft Showbiz. Next version of WinTV will add new profil to match Colossus spec. I also asked to Ivan (iuVCS) to add support, I will do some test for him since he dont have Colossus (not sold in Russia).

Also, WinTV Extend edition have a cool streaming feature :).
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akumajo
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Re: Whats the best HDMI / Component / VGA video capture device?

Post by akumajo »

Blackmagic_Desktop_Video_Windows_8.0.1 driver was just released. > • Improved reliability of DeckLink SDI and DeckLink Duo. :(

link
Cauptain
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Re: Whats the best HDMI / Component / VGA video capture device?

Post by Cauptain »

AmarecTV. Actually the best software for any capture card.

Work with AVERTV, BM, EASYCAP, ROXIO GAME CAPTURE...etc.

Deinterlace + Double frame rate is very nice feature. Perfect for all I resolutions (29,97 interlaced change to 59,94 progressive)

Try it.



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akumajo
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Re: Whats the best HDMI / Component / VGA video capture device?

Post by akumajo »

Blackmagic H.264 Pro Recorder is finally OUT.
Who will test ??? :mrgreen:
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StarCreator
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Re: Whats the best HDMI / Component / VGA video capture device?

Post by StarCreator »

Huh, this thread died...

So around the beginning of August I started messing with capture finally. I confirmed the HDCP exploit in specific versions of the Avermedia AverTV driver works as described, as I've been capturing content from the PS3's HDMI output all month.

Also, on Fudoh's recommendation I installed iuVCR, but noted that development of the program seems to have stopped in 2007 and I'm a little wary about registering it knowing that I am unlikely to receive any sort of support if it stops working in the future... it seems to work with the AverTV though it exhibits some odd behavior (like sometimes it won't actually start recording properly when commanded unless the live preview window is open first). Given all this, I'm inclined to look for alternatives... any suggestions?
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Re: Whats the best HDMI / Component / VGA video capture device?

Post by Fudoh »

AmaRecTV
dieKatze88
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Re: Whats the best HDMI / Component / VGA video capture device?

Post by dieKatze88 »

StarCreator wrote:Huh, this thread died...

So around the beginning of August I started messing with capture finally. I confirmed the HDCP exploit in specific versions of the Avermedia AverTV driver works as described, as I've been capturing content from the PS3's HDMI output all month.

Also, on Fudoh's recommendation I installed iuVCR, but noted that development of the program seems to have stopped in 2007 and I'm a little wary about registering it knowing that I am unlikely to receive any sort of support if it stops working in the future... it seems to work with the AverTV though it exhibits some odd behavior (like sometimes it won't actually start recording properly when commanded unless the live preview window is open first). Given all this, I'm inclined to look for alternatives... any suggestions?
I apologize, I totally used that exploit a few weeks ago and forgot to mention it. >_<

I think now that we have a good sense on the hardware side of things, we need to all start talking about software setups that we're using and get down to what's the best option for that.

Personally I'm still capturing with Virtualdub with Lagarith, which has some serious drawbacks, but it works and doesn't drop frames all that often (I did an hour of video and dropped 1? That's not bad) Occasionally I capture with AverTV direct to H.264, but the quality is horrid even at 15mbps for 720p. 720p video at 60fps should be about 2/3 that and look fine, so I'm a bit disappointed there.

I have started using amarectv for previewing, It's lagless (Well, OK, One frame if I enable deinterlacing, but that's expected) to preview with on my Hauppauge HVR-1600 which is something none of my other programs can say, except virtualdub, but I'm not playing a game in a tiny little window. (For those who might ask why I would use such a device: I enjoy my American Football in HD, and my SNES does not get along very well with my AverMedia card)

It also resizes video and retimes video to be spit out to FME, which is useful in reducing the bandwidth used when streaming from the AverMedia card which just is a straight capture device with no processing. You can use this function to reduce your frame rate being streamed, which can halve your bandwidth usage.

I'm doing my transcoding with MediaCoder, and Intel QuickSync on the Sandy Bridge platform does a pretty good job of making quality passable H.264 frames. Especially if you're uploading to YouTube (which is just going to wreck your quality anyway) but the quality isn't as high as x264 obviously, but it's about 3 times faster than x264 with 10% CPU usage versus 100% CPU usage at 720p. At 480p, x264 can't keep up, the lower the resolution, the faster QuickSync is, so if you're working with Arcade output, you'll probably want to set the quality to "Best" in Intel's encoder and just let it rip through your files at 30x speed. (Disclaimer: I have a 2600k which thanks to my gigantic copper cooler, reliably overclocks it's self to about 5ghz, and I have 16gbyte of ram. Your mileage may vary depending on your chip and configuration, even inside the Sandy Bridge platform.) I have noticed however, that Intel QuickSync doesn't do well with Android devices, even when you set the bit rate, level and mode correctly. Still have to use x264 there, but you can actually cheat there and use Intel first, and reload that file under x264 which will treat it as a second pass and clean up the file. No idea which program is outputting incorrect behavior (Oh I'm pretty sure it's Intel though) but this configuration is more than enough to get files onto my cell phone within minutes instead of hours.

Anyone else have some tips?
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StarCreator
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Re: Whats the best HDMI / Component / VGA video capture device?

Post by StarCreator »

Going to have to give AmaRecTV a try.

All month I've been streaming with the AverTV, Adobe Flash Media Encoder 3.2, and some random software I already had installed had placed something called VH Multi Camera into my possible input sources. I used it first to watermark my videos, then picked up a webcam to make use of its ability to combine multiple input video sources into a single stream. I've just adjusted the settings in the AverTV's capture driver whenever I want to change the resolution/framerate of the stream - I have an E8400 and CPU muscle is at a premium, so I actually end up setting the AverTV to output 720x480@30fps most of the time since I can't really stream anything beefier than that in realtime.

For actual capturing in HD, I made this test video by using iuVCR and the ffdshow MJPEG DirectShow compressor filter at default settings. It seemed to work pretty well but there are some serious framerate problems (especially near the end where it just sort of rolls over and dies) which I have to assume is because the drive I was capturing to is pretty badly fragmented and all my IRC logs were being written there at the same time. Definitely going to have to clear space off a second, largely unused hard drive before I try again.
dieKatze88
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Re: Whats the best HDMI / Component / VGA video capture device?

Post by dieKatze88 »

Well lets talk HD then. I do all my capturing in HD, I can show the differences in quality pretty well using some of my youtube videos.

This was recorded direct to H.264 in AverTV, which is like, Something your processor need not apply to do (It uses a significant portion of my processor which is an order of a magnitude stronger than yours)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9meuh-bHXw

This was recorded on my old computer direct to MPEG2 with AverTV, which has sync issues.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJ38sUQJO_o

This video was recorded on my old computer in Lagarith and re-encoded. That computer was way under par to do what I was asking and dropped a BUNCH of audio. Your computer is much better than this junk was, so you shouldn't have this problem if you use Lagarith instead of a lossy capture. As you can see the video quality here is much better than the other videos, but it of course requires something like 12mbyte/second, so you won't be doing hour long captures with this unless you have serious hard disk space.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9yw_1nZPsk

You've got some major audio desync on that capture you uploaded, which as someone who has been playing music games for a while will note, really rips you out of the experience of watching that video. You might not have a hard disk fragmentation issue so much as a CPU strength issue, as you noted you were capturing using FFDshow. Not really a bad thing depending on the settings, but I found that anything worth using was probably too demanding for HD Video on a Core 2 series processor. Try something like HuffYUV, Lagarith or MSU for capturing on a computer of that caliber. You can always reencode later, which is what I was doing.


As for streaming.

Right now I'm limited by bandwidth, Cablevision only offers packages up to 10mbps upload, and for that they want something like 300USD/Month, which is absolutely retarded. Not happening. I get Verizon FiOS on the 14th.

http://www.twitch.tv/diekatze88

The 480p gamecube test is through the AverHD, and is 720x480 like you mentioned. The 480i stuff from the SNES is not through the AverHD, but the Otomedius stuff is all at either 854x480 or 640x360, depending on how screwed Cablevision's network is. All dropped frames are solely on me for not having enough bandwidth to stream like this. Typically I've just got either Amarec selected in FME or the device I'm capturing from direct in FME.

Shameless plug, I have a 4 core 2.5ghz Core 2 Quad for sale. It's slower clockrate wise, but with the extra 2 cores it might give you the edge you need.
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StarCreator
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Re: Whats the best HDMI / Component / VGA video capture device?

Post by StarCreator »

I'm going to need to run more tests on the HD capture before I can really draw any conclusions - I really think it was likely the drive as I was watching it for a bit before gameplay started and the CPU didn't seem to have issue with the load. Just to be sure, the audio desync is largely limited to near the end of the video (after the Chance Time ends) - the raw capture is near perfect up to that point except for a couple dropped frames here and there, and any failing there is a failing of my H.264+AAC encoding, not the capture.

I'm definitely going to give Lagarith another try, but in that case I have concerns on whether or not my hard drives (no RAID) can keep up with the write demand - assuming my CPU is up to the task of encoding it. The ffdshow MJPEG compressor is significantly faster than Lagarith.

On upgrading my machine - given the large purchases I've made recently, and a planned trip across the country next month, I'm going to have to take a while to rebuild my savings before I can feel comfortable spending the amount of money necessary to make an upgrade worthwhile. Most likely I'm going to end up building an Ivy Bridge machine relatively soon after it launches - and probably transplanting the AverTV and my HD6870 from my current machine to save a bit of money.
dieKatze88
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Re: Whats the best HDMI / Component / VGA video capture device?

Post by dieKatze88 »

StarCreator wrote:I'm going to need to run more tests on the HD capture before I can really draw any conclusions - I really think it was likely the drive as I was watching it for a bit before gameplay started and the CPU didn't seem to have issue with the load. Just to be sure, the audio desync is largely limited to near the end of the video (after the Chance Time ends) - the raw capture is near perfect up to that point except for a couple dropped frames here and there, and any failing there is a failing of my H.264+AAC encoding, not the capture.

I'm definitely going to give Lagarith another try, but in that case I have concerns on whether or not my hard drives (no RAID) can keep up with the write demand - assuming my CPU is up to the task of encoding it. The ffdshow MJPEG compressor is significantly faster than Lagarith.

On upgrading my machine - given the large purchases I've made recently, and a planned trip across the country next month, I'm going to have to take a while to rebuild my savings before I can feel comfortable spending the amount of money necessary to make an upgrade worthwhile. Most likely I'm going to end up building an Ivy Bridge machine relatively soon after it launches - and probably transplanting the AverTV and my HD6870 from my current machine to save a bit of money.
My SATA II drives can write at 60mbyte/s so it shouldn't be a problem.

Fair enough, I was just plugging it as a quick fix if you were up to it, because I'm not going to do anything with it seeing as I have a Core i7 under my desk.
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Re: Whats the best HDMI / Component / VGA video capture device?

Post by ED-057 »

Have you folks tried using the xvid compressor for capturing? It seems to me that it is significantly less CPU intensive than x264 for both encoding and decoding, and the quality/bitrate is not far off for higher bitrates. I don`t have any hardware for capturing in HD but I capture 480i videos on older CPUs like 1.6GHz Athlon and 1.2GHz Pentium M, using xvid with a fixed quantizer (such as 4)
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Re: Whats the best HDMI / Component / VGA video capture device?

Post by StarCreator »

Yes, Xvid was the second thing I tried. I'd need about 7x more CPU muscle than I currently have to encode 1280x720p@60fps in realtime at quant=2 bframe=0.
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Re: Whats the best HDMI / Component / VGA video capture device?

Post by ED-057 »

Why bframe=0? just for editing purposes? Or is it faster encoding?

But if 720p60 is the goal then maybe a GPU-accelerated codec would be the way to go.
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Re: Whats the best HDMI / Component / VGA video capture device?

Post by dieKatze88 »

ED-057 wrote:Why bframe=0? just for editing purposes? Or is it faster encoding?

But if 720p60 is the goal then maybe a GPU-accelerated codec would be the way to go.
Until someone writes a good one... I'm going with no. The best "GPU" acceleration right now is Sandy Bridge, and It's only after the fact, there's no way to use it live, at least not right now. (GPU is in quotes because it's totally on the CPU, but you have to be using Intel's graphics chip because it lives on the CPU now)
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Re: Whats the best HDMI / Component / VGA video capture device?

Post by StarCreator »

ED-057 wrote:Why bframe=0? just for editing purposes? Or is it faster encoding?
Yes, on both counts - bframe encoding is more processor intensive and if my CPU couldn't keep up with a realtime encode without it, it would be even worse off with it enabled. I always capture to an intermediate compression then edit and encode for presentation later.

One more test - only thing I did differently from the last encode was capture to a different disk. No debilitating framerate problems like the last attempt, though I attempted to capture a second time immediately after to correct the combo break near the end and iuVCR decided to commit suicide instead without freeing my capture driver and I didn't feel like rebooting to get it back tonight.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkIJu8WKXHw or http://megami.starcreator.com/electricparade.mp4 (same video)

I noticed that when seeking through the MP4 the audio doesn't sync quite right, but the sync is perfectly fine if you let the video play from beginning to end. I'm still pretty new to H.264 encoding and the MP4 container in general so it could very well be something I'm doing wrong on the presentation encode/mux end.
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Re: Whats the best HDMI / Component / VGA video capture device?

Post by dieKatze88 »

StarCreator wrote:
ED-057 wrote:Why bframe=0? just for editing purposes? Or is it faster encoding?
Yes, on both counts - bframe encoding is more processor intensive and if my CPU couldn't keep up with a realtime encode without it, it would be even worse off with it enabled. I always capture to an intermediate compression then edit and encode for presentation later.

One more test - only thing I did differently from the last encode was capture to a different disk. No debilitating framerate problems like the last attempt, though I attempted to capture a second time immediately after to correct the combo break near the end and iuVCR decided to commit suicide instead without freeing my capture driver and I didn't feel like rebooting to get it back tonight.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkIJu8WKXHw or http://megami.starcreator.com/electricparade.mp4 (same video)

I noticed that when seeking through the MP4 the audio doesn't sync quite right, but the sync is perfectly fine if you let the video play from beginning to end. I'm still pretty new to H.264 encoding and the MP4 container in general so it could very well be something I'm doing wrong on the presentation encode/mux end.
H.264 can be fickle like that. Try resyncing it using AVIDemux.
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