STGT 2011 Conclusion thread

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dinosaurjerk
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Re: STGT 2011 Conclusion thread

Post by dinosaurjerk »

RNGmaster wrote:Sucked at all the STGT games, but oddly enough I find my skill has improved a lot coming back to my normal shmups.
i got motion sickness from playing ketsui and batrider last night, but i can still nearly clear p47 aces [got to stage 8]. my life is ruined :oops:
RIP TEAM FORKS AND MY AMAZING 18TH PLACE SHMUP PLACING, BUT I'M LEAVING THE SIG IMAGE ANYWAY
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captpain
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Re: STGT 2011 Conclusion thread

Post by captpain »

Time to go back to being in a shmlump (shmup slump, I am the funny man who loves to laugh and make jokes all the live long day) and preparing to poopsock Red Orchestra 2 once the beta comes out.
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ratikal
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Re: STGT 2011 Conclusion thread

Post by ratikal »

Pretty fun STGT. I just kind of wish I had put the same amount of effort that I had from 1944 into all the games. I just couldn't bring myself to do it. Oh well, it feels nice to go back to my old shmups and not feeling guilty about it.
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shadowbringer
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Re: STGT 2011 Conclusion thread

Post by shadowbringer »

opinions/thoughts/etc:

- thank you, stgt staff members, for one more stgt. These are special events, for me, as I like seeing people doing their best and trying to overcome their limitations. Nice job!
- thank you all for participating in this stgt, people, you also made this event possible. Keep improving, and keep the spirit of stgt alive!
- thank you, teammates and colleagues from other teams, for making stgt more enjoyable along the way :D

about the games..

- had lots of fun milking GokuParo's first boss, at times leaving stage 1 with 300k~350k. Since I didn't savestate-practice the other stages (due to not learning even the first stages well enough to be consistent at these), I couldn't learn to focus on getting green bell against the 3rd boss (and even got killed by its other easier patterns, which I didn't learn before) and (on one of my best runs) got killed near the start of stage 4 because I didn't expect or remember to dodge the suicide bullets from the homing mini-missiles. More runs could've pushed me further, though I still am not consistent enough at this game.
- Daioh had lots of places where memorizing for survival made the stages significantly less difficult.. except there were lots of "don't"s along the way. At that time of the tournament, I wasn't confident enough in my memorization and execution to trust my memory of others playing the game, but it turned out (as pointed before) that trying to freestyle the stages became just as dangerous as trying to follow a gameplan which involves getting the timing of enemy appearances and attacks. About my highest scoring run... I died with 4 bombs in stock, due to not practicing the 1-7 boss, ever, and thinking.. "well, with 2 bombs I can kill one shoulder, this should give me enough points to get one extend, and then I'll hopefully kill the boss with the remaining bombs.." ..and then the boss shot me before I thought it would. D: (this would've earned me and my team some points..)
- 1944 also had places where memorizing the answers were more or equally rewarding, for the memorization effort spent, though in a lesser amount as in Daioh, or 1944 was a bit more flexible than Daioh, regarding the loss of firepower per hit. In my highest scoring run.. the mistake of the week was to not know (due to not practicing/retrying enough) that what triggers the golden POW was killing the 3 smaller long ships. I let one of them escape without using the one bomb I had, thinking that my target was the thicker ships. Sorry, once again, team D: (also I'll admit I didn't like the game at first, because since most of 1942-ish games are from Capcom, I ended up comparing this game with Varth a bit too much.. so I thought "not Varth" a lot of times, when looking at this game)
- P-47 Aces is where I tried to tackle my memorization deficiency and fear of timing-based gameplan execution.. but couldn't get past the 5th stage. I'll have to improve in these areas.
- about Blade Buster, it was fun finding the value of enemies and trying to figure speedkill strategies (and still have minor untested things that I couldn't think about, until after stgt has ended). Though I couldn't see the second wave of the 4 row enemies, ever :(

other stuff

- looking back at my past participations in stgts, it's nice to sense some progress, I also did better on this stgt than I thought I would, seeing such strong newcomers. Though this stgt showed me that I have limitations that I haven't prepared myself for.
- special thanks (once again) to the stgt newcomers at my team, for being there. I hope you'll want to come back for more, next year :3
- also, my apologies for being often the weakest link in the top 3 weekly scores.
- there were people which I wanted to see in the tournament, to see how well they would perform in an stgt. I hope they get the proper conditions (availability) and enough interest to play in future stgts.

*edit*:

stgt suggestions

- forgot to mention.. what about a break week between weeks 2 and 3? This could be a way to give the teams with fewer points (those who usually lose interest in keeping playing for the tournament if the team scores don't look promising) a chance to reach their immediate rivals. Not sure about the effects of such a break week, to the highest scoring teams, though. (also, could maybe help Namako team come back, dunno)
- after playing 3 stgts without voting, and none with voting, I'm inclined (and curious) to see how well one would work :D
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Emuser
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Re: STGT 2011 Conclusion thread

Post by Emuser »

MY personal input on the games:

Week 1 Gokujou Parodius: Challenging as hell, frustrating scoring but thats what helped put people's abilities to the test. The game itself was hard as hell too, I'd have to say this was definitely the toughest game of STGT. Overall a very good pick with the gameplay mechanics and the insane wacky presentation of everything with enemies and music.

Week 2 Daioh: Always one of my guilty pleasures that I'd play every so often before STGT, and I was playing it an hour before it was announced for STGT to get away from Gokujou for a bit. My team knows that I had immediately nerd raged super hard with glee seeing DAIOH! for week 2. I like the game but the scoring is a bit lobsided in this game overall...I don't think any of us knew that before diving into this one though. :P

Week 3 1944: My drive to play in the rest of STGT died around here. I never cared much for the 194X series except 19XX, this game just irks me so much and I find it really bland. I guess people loved the relative simplicity of this game compared to weeks 1 and 2 at least.

Week 4 P-47 Aces: The first hour was the only time I submitted a score, and after seeing a spitfire superplay on day 2 showing how score works by the bumping bug on a few bosses, I stopped caring about this one. The premise behind scoring is just too weird and gets old really fast with how precise you have to be to get the big points, almost making it chance based. I also find shmups supremely annoying when there is a clearly superior pick for scoring compared to everyone else, which happened through Black Widow. With the issues some people had running this game and the sound issues as well, I personally don't know why this was picked for STGT.

Week 5 Blade Buster: A very big refreshing changer and unexpected as hell. Very tough over the course of 5 minutes, but I think this was a really good pick for STGT after weeks 3 and 4.

In the end though, I was extremely surprised at how there were no Cave, Toaplan, Raizing, Psikyo, Taito games to be seen anywhere this STGT. There are good choices for next year's STGT from all those companies that haven't been picked yet.
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Remxi
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Re: STGT 2011 Conclusion thread

Post by Remxi »

First time playing in a STGT and overall it was a positive experience. It motivated me to play a lot of games that I would normally not bother with, and even some I'd never heard of before. It's fun to play the games at the same time as everyone else and read the discussion threads (and then watch the top score replays to see how it's really done XD). I enjoyed most of the games that were chosen, and I think there was good variety in the selection. I didn't like Daioh at all (bullets too fast, exact same colour as the explosions, 6 buttons @_@) it just made the game frustrating for me. I liked 1944 the most. I will definately join again next year, or any other similar tournament (I heard people discussing running a similar kinda thing but only focussing on games made by whoever it was that made P-47).
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Nifty
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Re: STGT 2011 Conclusion thread

Post by Nifty »

I enjoyed this year a lot more than last year. The overall competitivity still feels a bit lower than it used to be, but that may just be an inevitable result of having far more players. The team results were definitely much better, in terms of consistency at least.

Personally I'm against the inclusion of break weeks - they make the tournament drag out for too long and a lot of people forget to start playing again. Beyond that, maybe avoid putting the game with the most anal scoring in week 1 :x
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Aliquantic
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Re: STGT 2011 Conclusion thread

Post by Aliquantic »

I'm adding my voice to the people wanting for voting to be brought back... yes, I'm fully aware of the drama that will ensue from reading up on past STGTs :P But it seems it'd alleviate some of the inevitable complaints about the picked games, and make things hopefully a little bit more interactive... oh and shame XOP didn't make the cut this year, but I'm glad to see PC games are still on the table :)
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Davey
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Re: STGT 2011 Conclusion thread

Post by Davey »

Aliquantic wrote:But it seems it'd alleviate some of the inevitable complaints about the picked games
I haven't been following the STGT threads this year, but I can't imagine that the complaining is worse than when we had public voting. That was basically game in and of itself.

The main problem with voting, public or private, is that it's hard to make a well-informed decision. A game that seems alright at first can become a chore by midweek. I think a small group of experienced, knowledgeable people can do a better job than the hive mind at picking something that will be competitive and fun in the STGT format.
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Re: STGT 2011 Conclusion thread

Post by moozooh »

Davey wrote:The main problem with voting, public or private, is that it's hard to make a well-informed decision. A game that seems alright at first can become a chore by midweek. I think a small group of experienced, knowledgeable people can do a better job than the hive mind at picking something that will be competitive and fun in the STGT format.
I agree completely. Although I wouldn't be against voting, either, if there was an option to vote against a game, not for it (history has seen it many times when people voted for a game they didn't want so that the game they didn't want even more wouldn't win).

And I still don't understand what exactly would be the problem with making day-long breaks between playing weeks. It wouldn't be hard to remember when each week ends, either: first week on Monday, second week on Tuesday, etc.. It would make the tourney four days longer (the horror!) but at the same time give a breather to do some time-consuming chores, make up one's mind if we decide to get back to voting, or just plain get some rest from playing shmups without significantly breaking up the rhythm.
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Illyrian
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Re: STGT 2011 Conclusion thread

Post by Illyrian »

For a each week, a day after the previous week to choose between 3-5 prospective games would be nice.
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Aliquantic
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Re: STGT 2011 Conclusion thread

Post by Aliquantic »

I like moozooh's idea of voting against a game, in principle at least since I'm not 100% sure about the details... it seems to help alleviate the obvious problems with majority voting, and should be interesting to see unfold if nothing else ;)

Davey, I'd argue that a small enlightened council can go wrong as well, as other people have claimed in this thread (P47's... interesting scoring system once you can clear it in particular), but yes, I know majority voting isn't that great either... I do miss the sort of meta-discussions people like the Namako team were doing in the past though.
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Re: STGT 2011 Conclusion thread

Post by Moniker »

moozooh wrote:(history has seen it many times when people voted for a game they didn't want so that the game they didn't want even more wouldn't win).
OT: This is how the Nazis came to power. Sad but true.
The freaks are rising through the floor.
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RNGmaster
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Re: STGT 2011 Conclusion thread

Post by RNGmaster »

Moniker wrote:
OT: This is how the Nazis came to power. Sad but true.
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Moniker
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Re: STGT 2011 Conclusion thread

Post by Moniker »

RNGmaster wrote:
Moniker wrote:
OT: This is how the Nazis came to power. Sad but true.
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OT: Hitler loved playing collectible card games.
The freaks are rising through the floor.
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Davey
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Re: STGT 2011 Conclusion thread

Post by Davey »

Aliquantic wrote:Davey, I'd argue that a small enlightened council can go wrong as well, as other people have claimed in this thread (P47's... interesting scoring system once you can clear it in particular)
Yeah, you'll end up with some questionable picks no matter what the method. I just think that a knowledgeable group of organizers, despite personal biases, will generally do a better job than the average participant since a lot of people were either voting blind or just going with the team.

Although if voting were to come back, I agree it'd be better if something like instant-runoff voting was used.

In any case, I'm sure dex and company had better reasons for picking P47 than most of these:

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=21905
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=22122
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=22554
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=22640
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=22970

Of course, you can't take these those too seriously. Except:
Davey likes this game
I'd love to believe that wasn't one of my teammates :)
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Moniker
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Re: STGT 2011 Conclusion thread

Post by Moniker »

I was also a first time participant this year, and have to say I really enjoyed all of the games chosen, with the possible exception of P-47 Aces, although I did warm up to it a little towards the end. I was surprised to find that I hit a wall with each of them that I simply couldn't break through with my current general shmupping skills. Possibly excepting Daioh.. I kept on improving on that one up till the end. GokuParo was definitely my favorite, despite the clusterfuck that is stage 3 -- I'm a little surprised at that. Definitely a good, wide selection; though I'd like to see more doujin (yes, BB was a doujin, but you know what I mean) & console shmups in the future, not to mention the more recent cave games.

As far as political structures go, I favor the enlightened technocratic approach. I don't know how the choosers are chosen, but the group of those comfortable enough to make their top25 lists makes sense as a representative pool.
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RNGmaster
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Re: STGT 2011 Conclusion thread

Post by RNGmaster »

Eden's Aegis for next year would be nice.
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Re: STGT 2011 Conclusion thread

Post by Kollision »

Real life hit me hard during the last couple of weeks.

I really dug 1944 The Loop Master and Gokujyou Parodius.
Daioh was a joke, I gave up because I could not understand the mechanics of rank control.
I barely played P-47 so I cannot draw any conclusion on it.
I was already very busy and that awful Blade Buster just killed my drive to play during the little free time I had in the last week. Awful choice, I wanted to play a real game dammit. :roll:
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mesh control
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Re: STGT 2011 Conclusion thread

Post by mesh control »

Sorry team, I suck.

I barely had anytime to play this year and I probably won't play again next year.
lol
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Illyrian
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Re: STGT 2011 Conclusion thread

Post by Illyrian »

Space Phallus next year please.
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Re: STGT 2011 Conclusion thread

Post by The Coop »

Moniker wrote:
RNGmaster wrote:
Moniker wrote:
OT: This is how the Nazis came to power. Sad but true.
Image
OT: Hitler loved playing collectible card games.
OT: Odd side note. Hitler was actually the inspiration for the Pokemon franchise. Seems Nintendo read through a short interview with Hitler that was done for the German newspaper, Der tägliche Schwachsinn, back in 1943. They came across a phrase where Hilter was outlining his plans for the Jews, where he said the Nazi's have, "got to catch them all." However, Nintendo feared anyone making this connection, and so used a more modernized, combined form of "got to," and then shortened "them." The rest is history.
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Re: STGT 2011 Conclusion thread

Post by DMC »

So you're saying these aren't valid arguments?
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Re: STGT 2011 Conclusion thread

Post by EllertMichael »

My first and certainly not last STGT. I had fun, despite being totally mediocre. (woo 75th!) The only games I had any prior experience with were Daioh & Blade Buster, but I appreciated the deliberate decision to include some under appreciated games.
ResumeDPosition wrote:My team knows that I had immediately nerd raged super hard with glee seeing DAIOH! for week 2.
:lol: It's true. He did.

Top 10 in the team standings. Jerry would be proud.
Looking forward to next year's...
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sikraiken
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Re: STGT 2011 Conclusion thread

Post by sikraiken »

Third year TCACTRM has gotten first (I don't mind sharing this year I guess), fifth year getting first on individual, and second year I've gone completely undefeated. Not too bad.

The games were pretty decent, the only thing I didn't really like was that on P-47 Aces I couldn't find a consistent way to get stuck in the stage 7 boss every time. Sometimes the ship would be a little off from where I needed it to be. Luckily the game was pretty short, so that was just remedied by playing a few more credits than I otherwise would have...


I'm really glad I decided to request voting reasons that one year I took lead. That might be the one good thing I've contributed to STGT.
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Re: STGT 2011 Conclusion thread

Post by tinotormed »

sikraiken wrote:Third year TCACTRM has gotten first (I don't mind sharing this year I guess), fifth year getting first on individual, and second year I've gone completely undefeated. Not too bad.

The games were pretty decent, the only thing I didn't really like was that on P-47 Aces I couldn't find a consistent way to get stuck in the stage 7 boss every time. Sometimes the ship would be a little off from where I needed it to be. Luckily the game was pretty short, so that was just remedied by playing a few more credits than I otherwise would have...

I'm really glad I decided to request voting reasons that one year I took lead. That might be the one good thing I've contributed to STGT.
Well I gotta admit, to me, you are like the 'Bruno Sammartino' of shmupping, as you are the only one undefeated. But let me warn you, one can often come after your score. So don't take your huge goals too personally for granted.
Last edited by tinotormed on Thu Sep 01, 2011 9:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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sikraiken
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Re: STGT 2011 Conclusion thread

Post by sikraiken »

I don't really think much of my scores.
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Re: STGT 2011 Conclusion thread

Post by tinotormed »

sikraiken wrote:I don't really think much of my scores.
Well, that's a good thing for you at least since you practice the usual arcade games out there.
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Re: STGT 2011 Conclusion thread

Post by NTSC-J »

I'm not sure what that means.

But anyways, sikraiken could go through each hi-score thread and pick each of them apart if he so chose.

What I would encourage him to do, however, would be to go after some Japanese scores (in other words, pick on someone your own size). There are a number of great Western players in our midst, but few come close to hanging with the elite.

So sik, if you ever do get the urge to chase a score, come on down to Tokyo and I'll take you to one of the better arcades that takes scores for Arcadia and even records some official DVDs there. Last time I was there, SOF-WTN was beating the tar out of Raiden Fighters 2.
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Re: STGT 2011 Conclusion thread

Post by Illyrian »

NTSC-J wrote:I'm not sure what that means.

But anyways, sikraiken could go through each hi-score thread and pick each of them apart if he so chose.

What I would encourage him to do, however, would be to go after some Japanese scores (in other words, pick on someone your own size). There are a number of great Western players in our midst, but few come close to hanging with the elite.

So sik, if you ever do get the urge to chase a score, come on down to Tokyo and I'll take you to one of the better arcades that takes scores for Arcadia and even records some official DVDs there. Last time I was there, SOF-WTN was beating the tar out of Raiden Fighters 2.
Holy crap that's the guy with the dodonpachi world record. I hope you went and spoke to him!
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