Can you truly enjoy a shooter by credit feeding or sucking?

[TonK]

Now I'm not the best player by far, but I can hold my own score wise.

I hear people sometimes say that they "love that game" (that game being any shooter) but they can't make it past stage 3 or score at all.

Then others say they "beat the game" but "it only took 16 credits".

Now, I know everyone enjoys these games differenty.

Different play styles, tastes, favorites, ect...

But most of these aren't casual games.

How can you enjoy these games if you truly suck at them?

I mean, how can you casually play Futari 1.5?

How can you enjoy Pink Sweets by never passing the second level?

How do you love Ketsui by credit feeding through the game?

I suppose the overall mentality is that you must not continue. 1 credit or bust.

But being sorry at these games, buying and not playing... Kinda makes me wonder.

What do you guys think?

A good example is when I heard how awesome Progear was. I credit fed through the ROM and asked myself "how the hell do people even like this game? It's boring as shit!"

Now years later, I have come to appreciate Progear and post a decent score while clearing it.

It's one of my top 3 shooters ever.

Shooter genre specific thread.

And I'm not talking about practice or the random Ultra credit feed just to see.

[MathU]

Even though someone may be having fun, it's possible for them to not be "truly enjoying" themselves?

[Deca]

Even though someone may be having fun, it's possible for them to not be "truly enjoying" themselves?

Well I don't think he's suggesting they aren't enjoying themselves, but they're not fully experiencing the game. They're probably enjoying it for pretty superfluous reasons, or just because its a shooter and they wouldn't care if you replaced it with any other game for them to credit feed through.

[Illyrian]

I truly enjoy going into training mode and fighting Hibachi in Ketsuipachi with scaffold playing, even though it takes me 5-6 lives to kill him.

It can be fun to fight a boss who's so insane compared to your skill level that it's just silly.

But dying every 2 seconds isn't fun ever.

[Despatche]

you learn the game through credit feeding, so yes

[Bloodreign]

I don't mind sucking at games, I collect them to play them for my own enjoyment. Sure I can't 1CC a hell of a lot of games ( I have 897 to enjoy anyway as a collector), doesn't stop me from enjoying them, but I will admit I give them the old college try and see how far I can get on a single credit a lot of times, shmups, puzzlers, platformers, whatever.

[xbl0x180]

I play all those games casually. The games may not be tailored for casual gaming, but I'm not into other genres of games. I just finished Eschatos on [Easy - Original] mode again because I love blowing s**t up on screen. On [Normal - Original], I'd be lucky if I can get past Area 14. I'm even worse on bullet-hell games, but I enjoy the graphics, the music, and the gameplay. Sure, it may sound like a waste of time if I don't become proficient at it, but I also see it as, "Hey, I can probably keep playing the game over and over, and not get bored with it since I've never beaten it. I could probably give it away to another gamer and they'd most likely not be able to pass the game either... so there's some longetivity there as well."

I don't have the time or money to spend on something I'd only enjoy superficially. It'd be like saying I'd have to be a marathon runner in order to fully/truly enjoy a brisk walk around the woods

[TonK]

you learn the game through credit feeding, so yes

I think you COMPLETELY missed the point.

But everyone else, it's interesting to read your opinions, it's cool to look at this from a different standpoint.

I'm also being shooter specific here.

And I'm not saying that I haven't credit fed through Futari Ultra to fight Larsa... I don't do it frequently though.

That's the point here.

[sikraiken]

No.

[Despatche]

I think you COMPLETELY missed the point.

What exactly is your point, and what do you think my point was?

[TonK]

I think you COMPLETELY missed the point.

What exactly is your point, and what do you think my point was?

I noticed you're very argumentative, so I'll be as simple as possible.

My exact point is stated in my first post.

Everyone but you seems to get it.

I think your point was taking what I wrote too literal or basing your answer on the thread title.

[TonK]

So I get this as a rebuttal.

So I can safely assume that: the topic title is useless; everything in your post is useless, which I've read, and it's basically the topic title repeated and ever so slightly elaborated on about ten times; and somehow you've managed to display that you've read all the posts in this thread, yet haven't read any of them, at the same time.

You know why I'm so "argumentative"? It's because shit like this calls for it, every single day. No matter how much I try, I can't reply to anyone here because it seems that they never have their head on straight, and think it's a great idea to blame me for that.

Thanks Despatche, maybe this forum can get an ignore feature so nobody bothers you with "useless" topics.

[Despatche]

You're not going to read this, so I don't know why I'm bothering.

Yet I figured you'd do this. And of course, I figured you'd assume that I claimed the thread itself was useless. You cannot explain to me why I've somehow "COMPLETELY missed the point", yet you will continue and continue to insult me about it and ignore everything that I say, that you say, and that anyone else says, yet still attempt to reply to it anyway. What I have said is based on what you told me.

It's incredibly hard to be nice when nearly everyone goes out of their way to be an ass and find it the funniest thing they've ever done in their lives. Seriously, just bring the Elixir or whoever comparisons on right-fucking-now, because I am totally ready.

[Zeron]

How do you people manage to go off topic so quickly?

[Deca]

You cannot explain to me why I've somehow "COMPLETELY missed the point"

"Can you truly enjoy a shooter by credit feeding or sucking?"

you learn the game through credit feeding, so yes

You missed the point that by "credit feeding or sucking" he meant playing completely casually, with no intention of really learning the game or ever seriously attempting to clear it or score well. There is a clear difference between someone focusing on and learning the game while credit feeding it, and someone just playing carelessly and dumping coins in until he "beats" it. Before you say something about how the thread should have been titled differently or something, note that no other person had any trouble understanding the nature of the question.

[mjclark]

Well I'm not a particularly good player, and when I first get a game i credit feed through it to familiarise myself with the the levels.
At that point credit feeding is fun since I am discovering the stages for the first time.Once that's been done however credit feeding becomes boring and it becomes fun to see myself improve in play and survive for longer and longer in the game and then finally it becomes fun to play for score as the last phase of relating to the game.
Apart from the Caravan games I think this applies to pretty much every shmup I play

[Bloodreign]

How do you people manage to go off topic so quickly?

In the Castlevania forums we call it Dracula's Magic, here we just call it gentlemen's disagreement and all parties should have a beer.

[BPzeBanshee]

How do you people manage to go off topic so quickly?

Their brain fires in ways that are not from this terrestrial realm.

[PC Engine Fan X!]

When I first got the chance to play the USA region Sidearms Hyper Dyne conversion kit at a local hamburger joint back in 1988, I naturally sucked at it the first time I played due to it's fast game style and not mention being a "quarter muncher" (just another fancy way of "credit feeding" back in the 1980s). Considering that you were using real money to play a single credit, it naturally forced they player to try to do his or her best. Eventually, after playing it enough times by trial & error to find out where the enemy entrance points were (it became an easy walk in the park due to memorization), I could get to the final boss Bozon and still have six lives on reserve all on just one credit. But it'd take another credit to beat Bozon once & for all, thus making it a 2CC session (the CPU would still keep the current score and display it on the high score screen for all to see/admire) once it was defeated.

On the average, it'd take about 35 minutes to pull off this 2CC session on the Sidearms PCB.

After getting my hands on the original JPN region version of Sidearms PCB, I could easily see some minor differences:

* Opening intro attract screen with a bit of animated sprites

* Dip switch settings for credit settings/default lives given at the start of the game are drastically different compared to the USA region version of Sidearms released by Romstar in 1987

Other than the above listed minor differences, the JPN version of Sidearms PCB still has the cool insider trick of being able to control the combined mecha soldier unit during the demo title screen with the cab's joystick & without the need to insert a coin either (this little known "insider" trick is also present in the USA version of Sidearms PCB as well).

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[Despatche]

I'm sorry, but I don't think he put much thought into any element of this question and how he asked it, yet it turned out to be a great question by itself, even if it is asked quite a lot. Clearly, I should have just said "Yes." without explaining a word.

No, TonK, you did not get that as a rebuttal, because you barely read it at all. You got something entirely different, as you will continue to do from all my posts, and you will never stop to ask why or even stop to ask yourself whether you should.

You missed the point that by "credit feeding or sucking" he meant playing completely casually, with no intention of really learning the game or ever seriously attempting to clear it or score well. There is a clear difference between someone focusing on and learning the game while credit feeding it, and someone just playing carelessly and dumping coins in until he "beats" it.

This is why his title and post are so useless: they are too general when there's supposedly something specific to take away from it. Funny you bring this up, when Tonk's complaint was that I had only read the title.

Before you say something about how the thread should have been titled differently or something, note that no other person had any trouble understanding the nature of the question.

Other than the fact that this simply isn't true, "the nature of the question" is a very general one that I should be able to answer any way I want, unless TonK goes out of his way to make it very specific, which doesn't really work because the nature of the question is so general to begin with. Yelling at me about "completely missing the point" does nothing except anger a guy who answered the question exactly how he'd answer the question. For all the talk of "let the guy have his opinion", this crap really bites.

How do you people manage to go off topic so quickly?

There's nothing off-topic about any of this. Someone thought it'd be funny to "criticize" my opinion because I didn't correctly guess whatever vague statement he had hidden behind a pretty reasonable and much needed question, I asked for an explanation, he thought it'd be funny to taunt me, I got fed up with it. I even took it to PM, like I should have, and he just brought it into this thread. What other path is there for something like this?

[mjclark]

Lol- we've gone off topic discussing why we go off topic! How post modern
And yeah... a lot of people on this forum are on their periods at the moment eh?

[Despatche]

What I really don't understand is why so many people refuse to care about any of this, yet these same people will still go out of their way to complain about it. If you don't really care that much, why are you complaining about it? If you do care that much, why not actually say something instead of sitting in the background and taking pot shots? This sort of thing goes in a cycle, and the only way to do anything else is to get out of the cycle altogether... or at least it would be, if these people wanted to do "anything else" in the first place.

[stryc9]

Lol- we've gone off topic discussing why we go off topic! How post modern
And yeah... a lot of people on this forum are on their periods at the moment eh?

I'll say. anyone got a spare tampon?

And in answer to the thread title, I guess it depends on where you are at in your shmup career. If you simply play casually I would imagine a bit of credit feed action would be very soothing. (People don't like getting killed every 4 seconds, it's bad for their fragile egos)

But of course that gets boring after a while and people will raise the expectations on the goals they set themselves until they figure out that the default settings 1CC is the basic unit of measure used to quantify a particular individual's current skill level at a certain shmup, and all the competative malarky tied to juggling basic survival and a complex scoring system that lies beyond that.

[toaplan_shmupfan]

Sometimes credit feeding through the game helps determine if it's even worth the effort to 1cc.

I give Metal Slug (1) as an example--a run and gun shmup. I did 16 continues and the second player plaing along did 11 continues--playing the SNK Arcade Classics volume 1 version on the PS2. Finished the game, got the ending, the game even tallied the number of continues at the end of the game. No way do I think that game is worth the effort to put into 1ccing, period. Next time I play again, I'll definitely be credit feeding it even with solo play and I'll be credit feeding it again if I play again using 2-player cooperative play. Yeah, I'll still try to go as far as I can per turn and per credit for my own skill improvement, but I'm not going to think any less of myself by not 1ccing it since I've determined it's not worth the 1cc. As far as elitism and bragging rights I can't properly claim I beat Metal Slug until I 1cc it, but do I care? No, I'll play the game for fun only and I'll play it as I see fit, which is credit feeding for the time being. It's not ever important enough for me to 1cc that game, or by extension any of its sequels. If by chance I do ever get good enough to 1cc the game, then I'll have beaten the game legitimately. Until then, let someone else struggle and limit themselves to the 1cc on the Metal Slug series.

Another one I credit feed through is Forgotten Worlds in Capcom Classics Collection for the PS2. For me, way too hard to consider limiting myself to game over after the first credit. Interesting enough to keep playing, so I'll credit feed it. Again, for elitism and bragging purposes I didn't actually beat the game until I 1cc it. If they wanted to disallow credit feeding, there wouldn't be a continue countdown, there wouldn't be continues. They wouldn't have allowed the second player to join in at any time.

Which then brings up these questions: why would a game that supports two player simultaenous play allow the second player to join in at any time except to also allow beating the game by credit feeding? Sure, the 1cc is the only legitimate win for elitism and bragging rights, but the game doesn't say Player 2 - No Entry and instead says Player 2 Insert Coin followed by Player 2 Press Start. Why would a home conversion of a game allow infinite credits if they didn't intend for players to credit feed whether the game was single player or two player cooperative.

So if I'm not going for elitism and bragging, I'm going to play the game the way I want to. If I want to limit myself to one credit, then I'll do that. If I want to credit feed, I'll do that too.

[stryc9]

Some of these games you mention Metal Slug, Forgotten Worlds etc. are from a time when graphics and effects took precedence over score. Didn't a lot of arcade games not reset scores on continue and stuff like that?

They were designed to be quarter munchers. Good example: Ninja Combat. How can you ever be expected to !CC this game? (waits in anticipation of a forum member to jump up and claim he's no missed it or sometin'

[ChainsawGuitarSP]

I would say yes. The whole point of 1ccing (besides saving your money) is to get the top score. If you're satisfied with merely seeing the end credits, then there's no need to challenge yourself with such restriction because otherwise you wouldn't be enjoying the machine enough to pump the credits needed to get that far in the first place.

[alastair jack]

I've never tried credit feeding a shooter before, doubt I'd enjoy it though. Credit feeding to me seems like the equivalent of watching a movie on x10 speed just to see everything and have it spoiled, then go back and watch it normally.

[Udderdude]

Can you enjoy a shooter by putting it on free play, taping down the start and bomb buttons, and going to take a nap?

Maybe :3

[Otai]

I depends on how you want to enjoy and what are the games that you are playing. For games like DoDonPachi ot Touhou series you could only enjoy if you are just playing casually since that 1cc and at least normal difficulty is required to get good/best endings/scores. But for others, you can enjoy them the way you want.

[dan76]

In answer to the op - No.

I hardly ever credit feed as somehow, part of me thinks it's... cheating. Put it this way, I'd never plump cash into an arcade machine just to see the end. For me the whole idea of playing an arcade game is progressing that little bit further each time, getting the 1cc, then starting on score tactics. This is a dumb strategy if you want to progress up the scoreboards, but it's method I have most fun with. I apply this arcade mentality to home ports.

On the odd occasion I have credit fed through a game it's always seemed much more difficult than when I actually get there in a proper run. Something about continuing makes me not play all that well - more unfocused, it doesn't count, so what.

I never use practice modes either - I should really break this habit in order to get better.