I'm all for prison reform but this is BS (Oslo Killer)

[rapoon]

What benefit is there in killing him? It doesn't act as a deterrent, and as I have previously mentioned, trying to implement a something along the lines of a 'proportional retribution' or such nonsense only serves to validate the notion that killing is acceptable in certain circumstances.

To put it simply, it is not acceptable behaviour for him to kill, as it is not acceptable for anyone to kill. 'Keeping him alive' has many benefits, for both him and society as a whole. Surely the best 'punishment' is the realisation of what you have done, and having to live with this for the rest of your natural life?

Why can't we see this event as a tragedy, as opposed to an opportunity for retribution? A lot of people have died, questions need to be asked about how this happened, and killing a clearly insane individual will change nothing.

What benefit to society? In 1996 Thomas Hamilton decided to run over to a school and murder 15 children (all 5 years old) and 2 teachers. Had Hamilton lived, what benefit would he have offered to society (with the exception of using him as an organ donor)? From what I've read, I believe that Breivik knew exactly what he was doing, can discern right from wrong and is thoroughly proud of his actions. Criminally Insane? No. Most people see this as a tragedy. Retribution is a reaction to the tragedy, and a valid one. How do you think the parents of the 68 dead kids feel? He killed 8 others. What about their family? Their parents, sons, daughters, siblings. You would have a very difficult time finding a single one of those individuals who want to give him a snickers bar, a big fucking hug and tell him "it's gunna be ok, we'll get you help!" Personally, I think these people should be judge and jury.

[Vyxx]

What benefit is there in killing him?

The simple fact that since 21 years is the maximum penalty he can get, you can pretty much count on this asshole repeating this atrocious act if you just set him free again.

Hell, he's young enough, he could serve 21 years, kill another 100 people, serve 21 years, get out a free old man.

Nothing against Norway, but Fuck guys get some harsher punishments. Not to act as deterrents, but just so the above scenario doesn't have a chance in hell of happening.

[drauch]

I like the death penalty.

[szycag]

They need to make some psychological breakthrough so that he'll know what he did or else it won't matter how long he's in there or what the place is. In his present state of mind, the ends justified the means and the loss of innocent lives is a foregone conclusion. He needs to be confronted by differing ideas, made to interact with muslims and see that they're human beings too, just like the people he killed. In spite of all that, if he's "intelligent" enough to spin a jumble of sociopolitical theory but then comes to the conclusion that taking innocent lives will make people convert to his cause... I don't see where you'd begin with a brain that broken. But I'm not a psychoanalyst. If he killed someone I loved, I'd probably want to make him a gimp who lives in a burlap sack like that movie Audition. But you know what they say about slopes and their traction.

All I'm saying is everyone wants to talk about the movies and books, but what about all that shitty vocal trance he listened to?

[BryanM]

What benefit to society?

It's a difficult mentality for you to understand since you (or I for that matter) were not programmed to think in this manner, similar to how we can't quite fully comprehend Turner Diary guy's little world.

It goes without saying that a human being is largely a mirror of his surroundings. The people born in The South aren't innately the worst, they're simply programmed that way. No human being thinks sit ups do anything, unless they are brainwashed as a child to believe that they might. Go through the list of things you don't really give a crap about, and be horrified by how many of these things are actually religions, not conscious appraisals of right, wrong and made up.

Now, understand the culture of violence we live in. We fucking love violence, it is the solution to all our problems. If it isn't the solution, why, then, you're simply not being violent enough. We can have people sawn in half on network tv, but a woman's boob is somehow obscene. As Brian Warner remarked in response to the media finger pointing after Columbine, everybody pointed to all of these new fangled things these damn kids like these days, but no one mentioned the president ordering another bomb run that day. To actually talk about our urges would be, like, introspection and stuff. That isn't what our lord Yahweh taught us to do: everything good is done by me and everything bad is someone else's doing.


Now, for here in the states there are a couple good reasons to stand against the Death Penalty itself:

* The legal process to stick someone in prison forever is cheaper than to get final approval for the table of death. Thus: by not killing somebody we save precious dollars that could benefit society by buying hobos tacos or something.

* Most states that use it, half ass it to hell. In 1st world countries (of which only a limited number of the states are), they require DNA or video proof. If you're not a pretty white girl who gets on the TV, you're not even close to guaranteed to a fair trial. Lazy racist redneck cops and judges will do whatever it takes not to have to do real work, and a forced confession played in front of a jury is going to lynch your ass. "And then she looked up, as though asking me for help." How do you NOT want to hang scapegoat after hearing audio of something like that?


Now, these aren't hypotheticals here. If Texas goes a single year without murdering some guy who's provably innocent from the DNA, it's an odd year indeed.

Anyway, anyone who's read anything about time in federal prisons knows raep is happy fun sunshine and rainbows, and that joking about it is retarded. Being concerned about having someone dig a hole out of you is a slightly more scary.

Here, have some copy pasta:

"I saw 12 deaths inside. Three of them were at the hands of screws. One of those was a gunshot to the head while a guy was trying to escape. The other two were beatings, and I didn’t know they’d died until later. It’s not right to call a prison shanking a ‘stabbing’ because that’s not how you die. Inside, we called it ‘digging a hole’ or ‘digging a well’ like ‘he got a well dug in him’ or ‘pulled out a hole’. The reason for this is the make shift weapons used inside are not easy to kill with. You basically make a hole as fast as you can, by stabbing as fast as you can, and then you try and get a grip inside it and just start pulling.

I saw this right up close one time. I had the distinct misfortune of having my cell behind a pillar, like a bulkhead kind of thing in the middle of the block. So if you wanted to shank someone, it was a great place to hide. Two guys were loitering around the pillar one day, waiting for this fresh kid to wander past. Prison gossip said he’s been worked over on his first night by someone who wanted him for a wife, but the kid fought back and nearly bit some fucker’s nuts off.

So his friends wait with a t-shirt, and a filed down toothbrush. They’ve cracked down on plastic toothbrushes, but there used to be enough of them that a lot of guys have them stashed away. You can file down the ends on the concrete to a point. One guy wraped a t-shirt around the kid’s neck and lifted him off the ground from behind, and the other starts stabbing his gut. After a few stabs, he starts trying to get his fingers inside and he just pulls all this meat out. I thought he was going to pull out his intestines like you’d see in a horror movie, but instead, he just pulls out fist after fist of this yellow jelly shit, and then big hunks of meat like raw mince. Screw’s arrived and tasered everyone. Even the kid. He was on his side, right in front of my cell, and every jolt from the taser made the big hole in his stomach smoke."

TLDR: Norway has a really sissy penal system compared to our super cool one, but according to Wikipedia, they've only had two serial killers. Ever. So they just don't know any better.

[xbl0x180]

They need to make some psychological breakthrough so that he'll know what he did or else it won't matter how long he's in there or what the place is. In his present state of mind, the ends justified the means and the loss of innocent lives is a foregone conclusion. He needs to be confronted by differing ideas, made to interact with muslims and see that they're human beings too, just like the people he killed. In spite of all that, if he's "intelligent" enough to spin a jumble of sociopolitical theory but then comes to the conclusion that taking innocent lives will make people convert to his cause... I don't see where you'd begin with a brain that broken. But I'm not a psychoanalyst. If he killed someone I cared about, I'd probably want to make him a gimp who lives in a burlap sack like that movie Audition. But you know what they say about slopes and their traction.

All I'm saying is everyone wants to talk about the movies and books, but what about all that shitty vocal trance he listened to?

A few things I wonder is where were his family and friends? Where were his parents? This kind of thing doesn't just happen overnight and, also, in a country, such as Norway, they do have the means to do the outreach. People just ignored the warning signs he must've been showing for years. Lastly, how quick was the police response? He was out there shooting kids for 90 minutes. I'd expect this kind of response from, say, a one-sheriff town in Arizona, but not a rich country...

[Randorama]

A few things I wonder is where were his family and friends? Where were his parents? This kind of thing doesn't just happen overnight and, also, in a country, such as Norway, they do have the means to do the outreach. People just ignored the warning signs he must've been showing for years.

He was a lone wolf and did not belong to any neo-nazi groups. So, the biggest and most obvious way to keep him in check was not available to police and secret services. The huge dilemma is, now, how to keep track of a single individual that is potentially extremely dangerous.

Lastly, how quick was the police response? He was out there shooting kids for 90 minutes. I'd expect this kind of response from, say, a one-sheriff town in Arizona, but not a rich country...

The blast in downtown successfully distracted police AND the boys at the camp. the Swat teams intervened on the island roughly 10 minutes after having received information of the massacre, which is nevertheless too slow. German, Italian, UK and French swat teams can ideally intervene in 4 minutes. Do not forget that he showed up dressed as a policeman shortly after the news of the explosions, saying that he was here to help, and then he opened fire on teenagers, indiscriminately. He planned the slaughter in such a way that *the call for help* could have been delayed for several, crucial minutes, by killing off the victims.

I do not know all the details, though.

They need to make some psychological breakthrough so that he'll know what he did or else it won't matter how long he's in there or what the place is. In his present state of mind, the ends justified the means and the loss of innocent lives is a foregone conclusion. He needs to be confronted by differing ideas, made to interact with muslims and see that they're human beings too, just like the people he killed.

It will take years, decades. I am not a criminal psychologist by trade but I do think that Breivik's profile is highly pathological, and close to patterns found in autism, what could be called an "extreme male". In Baron-Cohen's theory of autism (paper here), "extreme males" are individuals with an extreme drive to put things in (their own) order and with no ability to "interface" with others. So, if Breivik falls in this pattern, he will not even be able to conceive that anyone else is a human, and cannot be killed as he sees fit.

In this case the experts will take years to just "reverse engineer" his thoughts and attempt to study how a mass murderer's psyche works, which is something we have not much clue about. The process is by no means a safe one (for psychologists), nor the result is certain. And no, chances that they will "re-educate" him should be non-existent, as he is likely to be completely impervious to other humans, so to speak. Nominally he should ge 21 years, in practice he should die in prison.

[Drum]

What benefit is there in killing him?

The simple fact that since 21 years is the maximum penalty he can get, you can pretty much count on this asshole repeating this atrocious act if you just set him free again.

Hell, he's young enough, he could serve 21 years, kill another 100 people, serve 21 years, get out a free old man.

Nothing against Norway, but Fuck guys get some harsher punishments. Not to act as deterrents, but just so the above scenario doesn't have a chance in hell of happening.

Please don't repeat lies, especially ones that have been corrected in this thread.

[evil_ash_xero]

He's a mass murderer. He should die. Fuck prison.

[Drum]

So why don't you grow a pair and kill him?

Or maybe pitch in on a hit job or something.

[Skykid]

Here, have some copy pasta:

That was horrific.

[burgerkingdiamond]

So why don't you grow a pair and kill him?

Or maybe pitch in on a hit job or something.

everyone should contribute to this fund.

[szycag]

http://www.thedailyshow.com/full-episod ... chel-weisz

This bit at the beginning goes from funny to sickening to utterly hopeless. Why are you reacting to an extremist narcissist with more narcissism?

[evil_ash_xero]

So why don't you grow a pair and kill him?

Or maybe pitch in on a hit job or something.

Yes, I will grow a pair, and go to Norway, and find a way to kill this man. It's all so simple....

[Drum]

It will be a lot easier and cheaper than re-instating the death penalty in Norway. Do it. Dooooooooo iiiiiiiiit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THh1pPWEoWs

[Specineff]

Even if the maximum sentence is too short, I hope he serves the WHOLE 21 years, not a second less.

He should be introduced to the wonders of Tent City, here in Arizona. Not spend his 40's-50's in an air-conditioned dorm where he'll get healthcare and all the books he can read. Outrageous.

[rapoon]

http://www.thedailyshow.com/full-episod ... chel-weisz

This bit at the beginning goes from funny to sickening to utterly hopeless. Why are you reacting to an extremist narcissist with more narcissism?

Thanks for that.



I understand this mans *importance* to the psychiatric community. When events like
this occur, the perpetrator typically takes their life. By all means, let the brain-benders
have their fun. Afterwards, the survivors and surviving family should have their way with him.

[dunpeal2064]

I like the death penalty.

Hell yeah. Murder = bad, but killing = necessary

[drauch]

I like the death penalty.

Hell yeah. Murder = bad, but killing = necessary

I never said murder was bad.

[CMoon]

I never said murder was bad.

[BryanM]

"What do you care? It's free cake. And all you have to do is commit a little murder."