I'm all for prison reform but this is BS (Oslo Killer)

[szycag]

http://www.time.com/time/photogallery/0 ... 83,00.html

The prison Anders Behring Breivik could be going to looks better than most college dorms.
Every prison should have a recording studio. It would make record execs so much scrilla.

[sven666]

whatever, maximum sentence in noway is 21 years, ABB will be out when hes 53, suck on that.

[burgerkingdiamond]

whatever, maximum sentence in noway is 21 years, ABB will be out when hes 53, suck on that.

what a joke, 21 years max? Could he get 21 years per person?

[sven666]

21 years max, there is no heavier sentence in norway.

theyre toying with somekind of "crimes agains humanity" deal which could lead to 30 years but its some shady stuff.

as a contrast it takes very little to land a prison sentence for speeding in norway, lol

[Elixir]

Give him 21 years in prison, watch him last less than a year.

That prison... I know nothing of Norwegian architecture, but I'm pretty sure there's residents in inferior complexes in Norway. Something's wrong here.

[burgerkingdiamond]

holy shit. That guy should be fed to a school of sharks or something.

what an insult to the families of those who died.

[Skykid]

This is why countries like Norway are far in advance socially than others in the west. What an intelligent prison system! That really does offer some kind of rehabilitation for prisoners, rather than backward penal systems that keep them criminals and put them back onto the street as criminals.

In Breivik's case, however, he doesn't even deserve a chance at rehabilitation. They should take the mad bastard into a public square and cut his head off with a rusty saw.

[MadScientist]

whatever, maximum sentence in noway is 21 years, ABB will be out when hes 53, suck on that.

Not necessarily.

"If the additional time is served, and the offender is still considered dangerous, a prisoner can continue to receive up to five years additional containment, and this, in theory, could result in actual life imprisonment."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_impri ... _in_Norway

[MX7]

This is why countries like Norway are far in advance socially than others in the west. What an intelligent prison system! That really does offer some kind of rehabilitation for prisoners, rather than backward penal systems that keep them criminals and put them back onto the street as criminals.

I very much agree with you. Additionally, 21 years is a VERY VERY VERY long time. It's a significant chunk of anyone's life. It's certainly not a light option. What's the point in letting someone rot in prison for their entire life? What do they learn, other than that no one has any compassion for them? If all someone knows is punishment, then they will react in turn. This is well known, but, as it stands, in most countries the penal system only goes to reinforce criminal behaviour.

[brentsg]

This is why countries like Norway are far in advance socially than others in the west. What an intelligent prison system! That really does offer some kind of rehabilitation for prisoners, rather than backward penal systems that keep them criminals and put them back onto the street as criminals.

I very much agree with you. Additionally, 21 years is a VERY VERY VERY long time. It's a significant chunk of anyone's life. It's certainly not a light option. What's the point in letting someone rot in prison for their entire life? What do they learn, other than that no one has any compassion for them? If all someone knows is punishment, then they will react in turn. This is well known, but, as it stands, in most countries the penal system only goes to reinforce criminal behaviour.

Why bother to try rehab for a criminal that kills close to 100 people? You think you're going to fix that? He should be put down.

[MX7]

This is why countries like Norway are far in advance socially than others in the west. What an intelligent prison system! That really does offer some kind of rehabilitation for prisoners, rather than backward penal systems that keep them criminals and put them back onto the street as criminals.

I very much agree with you. Additionally, 21 years is a VERY VERY VERY long time. It's a significant chunk of anyone's life. It's certainly not a light option. What's the point in letting someone rot in prison for their entire life? What do they learn, other than that no one has any compassion for them? If all someone knows is punishment, then they will react in turn. This is well known, but, as it stands, in most countries the penal system only goes to reinforce criminal behaviour.

Why bother to try rehab for a criminal that kills close to 100 people? You think you're going to fix that? He should be put down.

That's not your decision to make, and killing him wouldn't do anything other than to further exacerbate a culture of violence.

[burgerkingdiamond]

Don't be retarded. we live in a society. you can't go around killing people without consequences.

So you don't think that you deserve to be punished for killing nearly 100 people with a fucking machine gun?

21 years is obscenely unjust. Life in prison is too good for this guy, especially in a Norwegian country club.

[Vyxx]

Why bother to try rehab for a criminal that kills close to 100 people? You think you're going to fix that? He should be put down.

That's not your decision to make, and killing him wouldn't do anything other than to further exacerbate a culture of violence.

Guy murders nearly 100 innocent people.
What benefit is there to keep him alive?

[brentsg]

That's not your decision to make, and killing him wouldn't do anything other than to further exacerbate a culture of violence.

He made the decision himself when he decided to be a mass murderer.

I wouldn't be trying to fix society, but it's not worth wasting any resources on this guy. He'll always be nothing but a threat.

I actually laughed when I read the predictable reply.

[Randorama]

I wouldn't be trying to fix society, but it's not worth wasting any resources on this guy. He'll always be nothing but a threat.

He is a good source for research into deeply deviant mind sets. It usually takes several years if not decades to really be able to extract useful information from this kind of people, from a psychological point of view. This would benefit virtually anyone in the world, if carried out successfully (far from easy).

[Skykid]

9/10 chance Breivik watched this horrifically distasteful movie. There's a worrying number of similarities (especially in the 'crusade to open people's eyes' kinda thing.)

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1337057/

I think Uwe Boll should be shot first, to be honest. I'm not usually disgusted by a movie, but this one really pushed it.

[MX7]

Why bother to try rehab for a criminal that kills close to 100 people? You think you're going to fix that? He should be put down.

That's not your decision to make, and killing him wouldn't do anything other than to further exacerbate a culture of violence.

Guys murders nearly 100 innocent people.
What benefit is there to keep him alive?

What benefit is there in killing him? It doesn't act as a deterrent, and as I have previously mentioned, trying to implement a something along the lines of a 'proportional retribution' or such nonsense only serves to validate the notion that killing is acceptable in certain circumstances.

To put it simply, it is not acceptable behaviour for him to kill, as it is not acceptable for anyone to kill. 'Keeping him alive' has many benefits, for both him and society as a whole. Surely the best 'punishment' is the realisation of what you have done, and having to live with this for the rest of your natural life?

Why can't we see this event as a tragedy, as opposed to an opportunity for retribution? A lot of people have died, questions need to be asked about how this happened, and killing a clearly insane individual will change nothing.

[burgerkingdiamond]

blah blah blah

you cannot fix everything. You can not fix a pedophile. You can not fix a serial killer. You can't fix this guy.

[szycag]

Since this turned into a discussion about crime and punishment, I thought this paper I wrote for an English composition class six years ago might be apt. It's about video games in penitentiaries.
http://www.dmgice.com/library/iceblock/032.html

I agree with MX7 to a degree. Prisons here in America are filled which is costly as hell, and although courts will claim they are the time necessary to rehabilitate, the terms are sized mostly around the contempt society places on the crime. Also, keeping them off the streets for as long as possible so we don't have to deal with them. Doesn't take much to come to that conclusion seeing the debacle the media makes out of court cases. What's the difference between 5 years and 40 years of staring at a wall and forced anal sex? "You're a piece of shit until we say you're not." The person is going to learn to look at life differently, but "I shouldn't have made the choices I did" eventually becomes "this is just my life" when it becomes that mechanical. It's hard to argue such a stance that well, especially when people have established these things very clearly in their minds, but it's largely about a perspective that people have too tough a time wrapping their heads around. I think if a woman kills her husband for sleeping with her mom, she still knows murder is wrong, she's just lost control of the ability to discern her actions. 5, 10, 20 years to prove to her something she already knows. Same goes for religious fucking brainwashing.

At the same time I must not be as 'ardkore a liberal as I thought because I don't think the place should look like fucking Ikea. The graffiti I found pretty tasteless too. Strange world.

In case you guys haven't heard the recent ACLU speech quote yet: "More African American men are in prison or jail, on probation or parole than were enslaved in 1850, before the Civil War began"

[Randorama]

9/10 chance Breivik watched this horrifically distasteful movie. There's a worrying number of similarities (especially in the 'crusade to open people's eyes' kinda thing.)

No, videogames, of course. Clearly Verdi's La Traviata and Rand's "Atlas Shrugged" brought him to decide on his action, if this list is correct.

[burgerkingdiamond]

Since this turned into a discussion about crime and punishment, I thought this paper I wrote for an English composition class six years ago might be apt. It's about video games in penitentiaries.
http://www.dmgice.com/library/iceblock/032.html

I agree with MX7 to a degree. Prisons here in America are filled which is costly as hell, and although courts will claim they are the time necessary to rehabilitate, the terms are sized mostly around the contempt society places on the crime. Also, keeping them off the streets for as long as possible so we don't have to deal with them. Doesn't take much to come to that conclusion seeing the debacle the media makes out of court cases. What's the difference between 5 years and 40 years of staring at a wall and forced anal sex? "You're a piece of shit until we say you're not." The person is going to learn to look at life differently, but "I shouldn't have made the choices I did" eventually becomes "this is just my life" when it becomes that mechanical. It's hard to argue such a stance that well, especially when people have established these things very clearly in their minds, but it's largely about a perspective that people have too tough a time wrapping their heads around. I think if a woman kills her husband for sleeping with her mom, she still knows murder is wrong, she's just lost control of the ability to discern her actions. 5, 10, 20 years to prove to her something she already knows. Same goes for religious fucking brainwashing.

At the same time I must not be as 'ardkore a liberal as I thought because I don't think the place should look like fucking Ikea. The graffiti I found pretty tasteless too. Strange world.

In case you guys haven't heard the recent ACLU speech quote yet: "More African American men are in prison or jail, on probation or parole than were enslaved in 1850, before the Civil War began"

there are definitely too many people in prison for too long. Especially for drug offenses.

[Randorama]

At the same time I must not be as 'ardkore a liberal as I thought because I don't think the place should look like fucking Ikea. The graffiti I found pretty tasteless too. Strange world.

Sorry but this comment demands a joke: is there a place in Scandivanian countries that does *not* look like Ikea?

On a more serious note, in Norway and various other European countries, the "cap" on years of imprisonment is not really an indication on the actual time of incarceration. If in 21 years he will show that he will have become a normal person (by the looks of it, just plain impossible), he may have a chance to go out. Otherwise, another 5 years before being tested again. 99,99%, he'll remain in jail for the rest of his life.






...And given Ikea's design, could there be any harsher punishment than living in an Ikea place?

[CMoon]

there are definitely too many people in prison for too long. Especially for drug offenses.

[CMoon]

I'm sure the prison this guy is going to will be hell and come with free butt sex.

[szycag]

http://gizmodo.com/5825170/oslo-killer- ... e-massacre

More on Breivik: his e-mail spam manifesto in full

[Skykid]

http://gizmodo.com/5825170/oslo-killer- ... e-massacre

More on Breivik: his e-mail spam manifesto in full

Annoyingly, he's obviously an incredibly intelligent madman (as they often are.) I found myself quite intrigued by the thesis he emailed to everyone, and his views on marxism and political correctness are pretty astute.

The problem is the world is a complete pain in the ass, and so are most of the people in it - but massacring innocent folks to get attention for your plight is not exactly a means to an end.

He's a frustrated mad man, but his social arguments aren't without some relevance (from the material that I read.)

It's interesting that he pinpointed 'multiculturalism' so specifically as a symbol of social decline. I have to wonder if the "War On Terror" (say it in a thick American accent like you're chewing on a cigar) and the affect it's had on the white majority's views about muslims in western society planted a seed in Breivik's mind? If that war hadn't existed, would he still have been so hung up on muslim culture specifically (would anyone?)

Growing multiculturalism, as I mentioned before, is an extremely current and volatile topic in the UK. People feel as though the country's distinct old-world identity (Royal Marriages and top hats) is being traded for one that evokes the cultures of several foreign continents - and is being done so without their consent.

Retrospectively I would have thought a Breivik type incident (although never on the same kind of scale) would have been more likely to crop up here, but British people are thankfully too lazy and useless to act on their prejudices outside of domestic brawling, racial spats and vandalism.

Norway, on the other hand, is the last place I would have expected a gun toting madman to be getting his panties in a twist over 'multiculturalsm'... but then I don't live there so I have no insight into the situation.

[DEL]

Skykid wrote;

Norway, on the other hand, is the last place I would have expected a gun toting madman to be getting his panties in a twist over 'multiculturalsm'... but then I don't live there so I have no insight into the situation.

I dunno though....
I remember Finland has had a fair share of gun toting madmen.

[Ebbo]

Norway, on the other hand, is the last place I would have expected a gun toting madman to be getting his panties in a twist over 'multiculturalsm'... but then I don't live there so I have no insight into the situation.

Actually the immigrant share of Oslo's population is around 25% of the city's total. The discussion around multiculturalism and immigration policy is pretty hot topic in Norway and Sweden, even in Finland nowadays...

[Skykid]

Norway, on the other hand, is the last place I would have expected a gun toting madman to be getting his panties in a twist over 'multiculturalsm'... but then I don't live there so I have no insight into the situation.

Actually the immigrant share of Oslo's population is around 25% of the city's total. The discussion around multiculturalism and immigration policy is pretty hot topic in Norway and Sweden, even in Finland nowadays...

Ah, ok. That makes more sense now then (or at least gives me a perspective on his... perspectives.)

[xbl0x180]

At the same time I must not be as 'ardkore a liberal as I thought because I don't think the place should look like fucking Ikea. The graffiti I found pretty tasteless too. Strange world.

Sorry but this comment demands a joke: is there a place in Scandivanian countries that does *not* look like Ikea?

On a more serious note, in Norway and various other European countries, the "cap" on years of imprisonment is not really an indication on the actual time of incarceration. If in 21 years he will show that he will have become a normal person (by the looks of it, just plain impossible), he may have a chance to go out. Otherwise, another 5 years before being tested again. 99,99%, he'll remain in jail for the rest of his life.






...And given Ikea's design, could there be any harsher punishment than living in an Ikea place?

IKEA is AWERSOME! It's like Lego, but with furniture

Man, that sucks the Scandinavians hates us foreign peeps. Here I was planning a holiday there and maybe come back with a Swedish wife or somethin'