Which of the Touhou Games is the Best in the Series?

[Narroo]

It you're playing Shanghai Alice games for survival you're playing them wrong.

It's a tossup for me between Imperishable Night and Perfect Cherry Blossom for best in the series.

Mountain of Faith is the best looking game in the series, in terms of pure art design, even though its scoring system is comparatively pants.

I found the UFO and SA demos to be dull, dull dull.

Do you honestly think without the popularity of Touhou blazing the way for indie shmups that anyone would have attempted to create Crimzon Clover, Samidare, or Hellsinker?

But I play for survival. It wasn't till like last week that I managed to 1CC all of them on normal, well not counting 9.

[ratikal]

I gotta say, I just tried out PCB on Normal and was 2 forms away from an ALL Clear. This game is actually really fun and I'm surprised I hadn't touched it earlier. Maybe it was the crazy fanbase, who knows.

[Narroo]

I gotta say, I just tried out PCB on Normal and was 2 forms away from an ALL Clear. This game is actually really fun and I'm surprised I hadn't touched it earlier. Maybe it was the crazy fanbase, who knows.

Crazy fanbase.

[Bananamatic]

the only winning move is not to play

[Naut]

So I guess this means UFO lunatic is too hard for you, Banana?

[ebarrett]

EoSD lunatic was too hard for him before that, and a more direct cause of his Touhou ragequit.

*puts banana's file back in the folder*

[Bananamatic]

I've been actually winning at all 13 touhou games at once

for a year straight

[Zengeku3]

It you're playing Shanghai Alice games for survival you're playing them wrong.

If you are playing Shanghai Alice games for score you're playing them wrong.

the only winning move is not to play

Perhabs if you went and played Ketsui instead but of course you had to go play Hellsinker instead. That's more like a losing move.

2nd: The stages are kinda an overly warm-up for the bosses....

Except 80% of the stages not having one threatening part about them. That doesn't really warm you up. It just puts you to sleep.

[Narroo]

It you're playing Shanghai Alice games for survival you're playing them wrong.

If you are playing Shanghai Alice games for score you're playing them wrong.

the only winning move is not to play

Perhabs if you went and played Ketsui instead but of course you had to go play Hellsinker instead. That's more like a losing move.

2nd: The stages are kinda an overly warm-up for the bosses....

Except 80% of the stages not having one threatening part about them. That doesn't really warm you up. It just puts you to sleep.

I meant Overly long; typo, sorry!
Besides that, if ZUN is lazy for having few enemy types, what is CAVE for only have three or four 20 second loop tracks for the 1st 90% of most of their games?

[Zengeku3]

Besides that, if ZUN is lazy for having few enemy types, what is CAVE for only have three or four 20 second loop tracks for the 1st 90% of most of their games?

What 90% are you looking at? The 90% I'm looking at have great music that aren't just 20 second loops. The boss musics are short which makes sense since the bosses aren't that long either but the stages have reasonably long songs. I will give you that an OST like the DDP one is kinda lazy however.

[Narroo]

Besides that, if ZUN is lazy for having few enemy types, what is CAVE for only have three or four 20 second loop tracks for the 1st 90% of most of their games?

What 90% are you looking at? The 90% I'm looking at have great music that aren't just 20 second loops. The boss musics are short which makes sense since the bosses aren't that long either but the stages have reasonably long songs. I will give you that an OST like the DDP one is kinda lazy however.

DoDonPachi is exactly what I was thinking of. From the cave games I've played: Stage 1: 1st Generic 20> Sec Loop, for the stage, followed by the generic boss theme. Stage 2: 2nd Generic Stage theme, followed by the boss theme again. stage 3: Depending on the game, either a previous piece, or- if you're lucky, another generic piece that sounds like the other stage themes. Then the boring boss theme, again. This repeats till the final stage- the final stage may have unique music, and the boss may have one or two unique themes. They're still short and blah though.

Honestly, I enjoy the sound more than the graphics, so I'd rather have more, and better, music that more and better sprites. I'm willing to bet other people feel differently though.

[dunpeal2064]

Besides that, if ZUN is lazy for having few enemy types, what is CAVE for only have three or four 20 second loop tracks for the 1st 90% of most of their games?

What 90% are you looking at? The 90% I'm looking at have great music that aren't just 20 second loops. The boss musics are short which makes sense since the bosses aren't that long either but the stages have reasonably long songs. I will give you that an OST like the DDP one is kinda lazy however.

DoDonPachi is exactly what I was thinking of. From the cave games I've played: Stage 1: 1st Generic 20> Sec Loop, for the stage, followed by the generic boss theme. Stage 2: 2nd Generic Stage theme, followed by the boss theme again. stage 3: Depending on the game, either a previous piece, or- if you're lucky, another generic piece that sounds like the other stage themes. Then the boring boss theme, again. This repeats till the final stage- the final stage may have unique music, and the boss may have one or two unique themes. They're still short and blah though.

Honestly, I enjoy the sound more than the graphics, so I'd rather have more, and better, music that more and better sprites. I'm willing to bet other people feel differently though.

I love how you generalized Cave games, and then only could site one of them, and at that one of their earliest ones, to have that fault.

I like music AND graphics... AND gameplay. IMO a lot of shooters do that better than Touhou. Talk about repetitive, you fight a fucking little girl constantly. Not in just one game either. To compare that, you'd have to show me several Cave games that not only used 20 second loops, but the SAME 20 second loop of music for 13 fucking games!

I guess I asked for it coming into a Touhou thread.

[Drake]

Talk about repetitive, you fight a fucking little girl constantly. Not in just one game either. To compare that, you'd have to show me several Cave games that not only used 20 second loops, but the SAME 20 second loop of music for 13 fucking games!

Honestly your reply isn't that much better, dude.

But you're right that Narroo is being dumb and generalizing an entire game dev company. Really? 90% Are you that dense? DDP's soundtrack wasn't exactly the greatest and it repeated stage 1/2/3 for 4/5/6, but it wasn't ever dull or overly repetitive; especially when with shmups, the combination of the music with the bullet patterns is what sets the tone, not the music alone. Now Donpachi, that was a pretty damn boring soundtrack.

[Narroo]

Talk about repetitive, you fight a fucking little girl constantly. Not in just one game either. To compare that, you'd have to show me several Cave games that not only used 20 second loops, but the SAME 20 second loop of music for 13 fucking games!

Honestly your reply isn't that much better, dude.

But you're right that Narroo is being dumb and generalizing an entire game dev company. Really? 90% Are you that dense? DDP's soundtrack wasn't exactly the greatest and it repeated stage 1/2/3 for 4/5/6, but it wasn't ever dull or overly repetitive; especially when with shmups, the combination of the music with the bullet patterns is what sets the tone, not the music alone. Now Donpachi, that was a pretty damn boring soundtrack.

Sorry, I shouldn't generalize. For instance, I know that Dangun Feveron had unique tracks for all it's stages. It's just that most of their music strikes me as blah, or forgettable. If it makes you feel better, I hate almost all music- I'm incredibly picky. In fact, I'm not even a real fan of Touhou music. There are a few tracks I really like, such as U.N. Owen was her? And the themes for the Kappa and Tengu, but otherwise I find most of the tracks of the quality of "O.K."
My point was, was that someone claimed that having only a few sprites for enemies was lazy, and I figured I'd point out the same thing is typical of cave and their music. My claim for them being boring I guess is due to myself feeling that the tracks in cave games tend to be short and mostly beat style tracks, which I figured a good amount of people would agree with.

...Don't hurt me, please.

[Narroo]

I love how you generalized Cave games, and then only could site one of them, and at that one of their earliest ones, to have that fault.

I like music AND graphics... AND gameplay. IMO a lot of shooters do that better than Touhou. Talk about repetitive, you fight a fucking little girl constantly. Not in just one game either. To compare that, you'd have to show me several Cave games that not only used 20 second loops, but the SAME 20 second loop of music for 13 fucking games!

I guess I asked for it coming into a Touhou thread.

Hasn't it been till recently that most cave games had you fighting plane things? Besides that, occasionally flying humans...

I suppose I should have expected getting yelled at, saying this in a Shmups forum. Really, both the Company CAVE and the guy ZUN do fall back on the same self made Tropes all the time. All I wanted to do was point this out, since people are using it as an excuse to bash Touhou
--- which is a single series of games which a run can be completed in about an hour or less and most people do not spend 600 hours memorizing a game to get a high score in it AND he apparently was only responsible for the music in 1-5, so it's really 8 games but whatever I'm getting off point here I think I just found my socks.

I guess what I really want to know it, why are you getting upset? All I did was point out something I saw and you're trying to rip me a new one.

[ncp]

Cave games' music tracks are no shorter than most video game music tracks. Just as long or longer than most Touhou tunes, and only Dodonpachi has re-used stage music.

also

the themes for the Kappa and Tengu

do you really think of the songs in this way? do you even play these games? ¯\(º_o)/¯

and

why are you getting upset?

because nobody likes to see this dumb crap on a board they frequent

[shadowbringer]

source: http://www.pixiv.net/member_illust.php? ... id=9137270

[BPzeBanshee]

Cave games' music tracks are no shorter than most video game music tracks. Just as long or longer than most Touhou tunes, and only Dodonpachi has re-used stage music.

Not entirely true, ESPGaluda's final stage (where the Alice clones show up) reuse the Stage 1 theme.

In my experience however, most Cave games don't reuse music at all, and when it does it's actually fitting instead of giving you the "oh how recycled" feeling so really I'm being picky on a moot point.

[Despatche]

"*opinions clashing* aurrrrrr I'm right and your wrong even though I have no idea what I'm talking about anyway"

okay let's break this down

what is CAVE for only have three or four 20 second loop tracks for the 1st 90% of most of their games?

except they don't; dodonpachi isn't even an example (strange as it may seem)

I will give you that an OST like the DDP one is kinda lazy however.

I guess hardware limitations, at least they decided to keep the random 20 second loops out (god damn it esprade/guwange)

From the cave games I've played

okay seriously few cave games actually do this and those that do are all on the dumb older hardware; stop not-playing cave 1st, go not-play the newer games (if you're going to not-play them at all) or even just find the osts,

the themes for the Kappa and Tengu

and try not-playing the touhou games too for a change, as well as realize that people are going to say the same about touhou music and they're not going to be any more wrong or right than you are

Honestly your reply isn't that much better, dude.

neither was yours, considering it was the same damn thing with a different spin (and nice jab at donpachi there, which is actually okay, go check out the ost)

Cave games' music tracks are no shorter than most video game music tracks. Just as long or longer than most Touhou tunes, and only Dodonpachi has re-used stage music.

the first part is false and the only point narroo could ever make (except s/he doesn't have the capacity), the second part is just plain false

my message to this thread and many more: stop guessing and learn better before making dumb statements

[NzzpNzzp]

My point was, was that someone claimed that having only a few sprites for enemies was lazy, and I figured I'd point out the same thing is typical of cave and their music.

You should probably accept your game's flaws instead of going on the offensive every time someone mentions something bad about it. Being a fanboy is kinda sad.

[Bananamatic]

My point was, was that someone claimed that having only a few sprites for enemies was lazy, and I figured I'd point out the same thing is typical of cave and their music.

You should probably accept your game's flaws instead of going on the offensive every time someone mentions something bad about it. Being a fanboy is kinda sad.

You know what's the scary thing

There is an ENTIRE FORUM OF THESE GUYS

good luck trying to sleep tonight

[Sapz]

As a Touhou thread tends towards an infinite number of posts, the probability of it not devolving into a Touhou vs Cave thread approaches zero.

[Mischief Maker]

As a Touhou thread tends towards an infinite number of posts, the probability of it not devolving into a Touhou vs Cave thread approaches zero.

You're right, it is pretty damn silly to compare a single hobbyist's spare time games to professional efforts developed by a team. If you're going to compare Touhou, compare it to other doujins and see how it stacks up.

I'll start: Imperishable Night vs. Hitogata Happa. Both have scoring systems that rely heavily on enemy explosions cancelling out nearby bullets. Both feature little girls dressed in their tea party best. WHICH IS THE SUPERIOR DOUJIN???

[Chaos Phoenixma]

I've seen very little legitimate bad stuff said about them. There is some bad stuff, and I'd call those out too, but a lot of people just say stuff about it without knowing what they're talking about.


What forum could you be talking about? Lunatic Red? Because MotK is mostly people that like all sorts of shmups too and not just Touhou.


And just no. Don't even compare Imperishable Night to Hitogatta Happa. Imperishable Night isn't a kamikaze simulator, while Hitogata Happa requires you to crash into bosses lots of times to do enough damage to avoid the timeout phases that take your lives away so that 1 hit is game over. Imperishable Night does not require dying or bombing to play well, though of course the records still generally have those. If talking about scoring, you would have been better off comparing LLS, EoSD, PCB, and SA which have a lot of dying and bombing for score.

And really, just focusing on the bullet canceling will only get you around 3 billion on IN if you're lucky. So it seems that there's about an equal emphasis on that and supergrazing.

[Bananamatic]

Hitogata Happa

you mean this game?

also, "supergrazing" is just sugarcoated "milking the fuck out of everything"

[Chaos Phoenixma]

Not really. Many attacks aren't even profitable to do it on.

[Barrakketh]

also, "supergrazing" is just sugarcoated "milking the fuck out of everything"

That's still one hell of a lot less boring than milking bosses in ESP Ra.De.

As a Touhou thread tends towards an infinite number of posts, the probability of it not devolving into a Touhou vs Cave thread approaches zero.

As a Touhou thread grows longer, the probability of Bananamatic and/or Treasurance talking about HELLSINKER approaches 100%.

[Bananamatic]

That's still one hell of a lot less boring than milking bosses in ESP Ra.De.

I'll be honest, esprade is pretty bad in both survival and scoring because I am not a fanboy

at least the boss music is cool

[ncp]

Cave games' music tracks are no shorter than most video game music tracks. Just as long or longer than most Touhou tunes, and only Dodonpachi has re-used stage music.

the first part is false and the only point narroo could ever make (except s/he doesn't have the capacity), the second part is just plain false

wait what
was this replying to me?
most cave tracks are between 3 and 4 minutes long. Most zun tracks are around 2. I think zun's music is 1000x better than any of cave's music but saying that cave games have "short 20 second loops" for music is just full retard.

[AliceMargatroid]

As a Touhou thread grows longer, the probability of Bananamatic and/or Treasurance talking about HELLSINKER approaches 100%.

Why is HELLSINKER so unknown to most players? It was really good (especially the last stages) and different from most other shmups.
It only LOOKS complicated. When you play it it isn't even as complicated as Daifukkatsu.

Also you can't compare Touhou with HELLSINKER because these games are too different.