Extremely popular shmups you don't "get"

[Bananamatic]

At least mushi doesn't give you the middle finger if you play purely for survival

[Deca]

At least mushi doesn't give you the middle finger if you play purely for survival

Yeah it just gives you a cup of hot chocolate and puts you to sleep.

[burgerkingdiamond]

At least mushi doesn't give you the middle finger if you play purely for survival

Yeah it just gives you a cup of hot chocolate and puts you to sleep.

I lol'd

[burgerkingdiamond]

Mushihimesama. Really, people whine of simple systems like Garegga and DFK being awkward, but say nothing about this. Never has shooting in a shooting game been so complicated. What annoys me is that the system seems like it could be really fun with some slight alteration, but right now I just don't get it.

are we talking Futari or the original Mushi? I haven't played the original, are the scoring systems the same? I'm assuming they are. Anyway, Futari is the shit, and the scoring is pretty simple, at least for Original (mode). Actually the simplest CAVE scoring I can think of besides DDP. Don't get me wrong, DDP scoring is hard. I don't even try to chain past the first level, but at least it's simple in principle.

The game called "Mushihimesama" naturally. Everybody loves Futari.

And yes, the systems are very different. Check that link I put there for example. Or this list of 5 different shot tapping techniques that you should be using in different situations in the game to play it optimally.

Edit: I don't get it as in I don't understand it. Sure I can read all these strategy texts, but I have no idea why these techniques have the effect they have. I don't want to do something I don't understand just because it somehow makes you score better.

my bad. I used to call Futari "mushi" because I didnt know it was a sequel. So I wasnt sure.. Anyway, I read that link, and Im with u. that variable button tapping speed shit does not sound like fun. I still would like to try the game though. too bad the ps2 port is so expensive.

[neorichieb1971]

I'm gonna say Dogyuun. Brilliant graphics, music and all that. But the weapons although pretty, just make me want to hate the game.

[Skykid]

my bad. I used to call Futari "mushi" because I didnt know it was a sequel. So I wasnt sure.. Anyway, I read that link, and Im with u. that variable button tapping speed shit does not sound like fun. I still would like to try the game though. too bad the ps2 port is so expensive.

And rubbish. It's not a good reflection of the game.

And Mushi is extremely fun whether played for score or survival, it's a great game. It's got plenty of points over Futari in the design dept. (although Futari's scoring is definitely preferable.)

[ZOM]

Raiden II really DOES have invisible bullets.

[DragonInstall]

I'm going to get hated for this.. but Ketsui.

I really don't understand why this game gets so much praise. I'm not saying it's bad, but I enjoy a handful of other shmups over this one.

[Vyxx]

I'm going to get hated for this.. but Ketsui.

I really don't understand why this game gets so much praise. I'm not saying it's bad, but I enjoy a handful of other shmups over this one.

The bullet patterns are beautiful, creative, and an overall joy to play through.

[chempop]

-don't forget the serious tone, nothing cutesy about it which is rare for Cave.
- amazing soundtrack
- simple yet intuitive score mechanics

Ketsui isn't my favorite Cave game but it seems pretty clear why it has a following.

[Kollision]

- amazing soundtrack

I kinda agree with this.
The soundtrack in Ketsui isn't really engaging on its own, but it surely shines while you're playing the game. It's fantastic.

My pick for the topic would be Espgaluda.
I don't feel the urge of playing it again after the ALL, the scoring system didn't click for me.

[gs68]

Raiden Fighters series. You may as wel set your typical fire button to the restart button.

[Uzumakijl]

Dunno if this post of mine from another board will help you, but...

Scoring in Radirgy centers around keeping your multiplier up and constantly recharging your Abuzo network attack.

It's all about balancing the two. When you're in a dry spot of enemies and bullets, what you want to do is scratch an enemy with your shield to keep the multiplier meter from going down too much--while you wait for more enemies to come on screen again. Then you use your Abuzo network to bring the multiplier back up. Note that scratching things with your shield creates bigger pills than using your Abuzo network. Scratching multiple targets at once (the bigger enemies in every stage usually have multiple targets) fills your multiplier meter the fastest.

Swiping enemies and bullets with your sword builds your Abuzo network gauge back up the fastest. Using your sword a lot is very important in Radirgy.

Simplified, the process looks like this:
1. Build the multiplier meter up to 16x at first by scratching big enemies (multiple targets) with your shield.
2. Destroy things and pick up items at 16x for delicious points.
3. Use your Abuzo network to max the multiplier meter back out before it reverts to 8x.
4. Quickly swipe a lot of enemies and bullets to recharge the Abuzo network.
5. Cycle through 2 to 4 repeatedly.

The first time you beat the stage 1 boss at 16x without getting hit is extremely satisfying.

Thanks for this man, It certainly did help, Still i can't really maintain the multiplier at 16x and i lose it at bosses, Totally offtopic but do you know by any chance if there are any good superplays avaliable online? There must be something i'm doing wrong here.

[MathU]

do you know by any chance if there are any good superplays avaliable online?

Yes, there's a pretty good one on SuperPlay.

[Uzumakijl]

Yes, there's a pretty good one on SuperPlay.

Hehe, Forgot about that, Thanks again, It was very helpful, I'm giving Radirgy another try .

[Voxbox]

I don't get the Touhou games, or even some of the more extreme Cave shooters, where it's not so much about reflexes and strategy as simply being able to move your hitbox one pixel at a time, or discerning the hitboxes of the bullets coming at you.

(Raizing 4 lyfe!)

[postmanmanman]

I've never been a particular fan of Ikaruga. I appreciate that it's well-designed, and the central mechanic of polarity-switching is interesting, but it's always struck me as relentlessly dull. Maybe it's because I'm a bit Cave-partial, but I just feel bored when I'm playing Ikaruga. Also, the chaining system is boring and derivative, in my opinion.

I also don't really appreciate the DonPachi series. I haven't played Dai-ou-jou, actually, which seems to be considered the best in the series, but I found the chaining mechanic to be dull and painfully unforgiving in the other games. (I just don't really like chaining, I guess.) Though I must admit, I LOVE playing the DonPachi games for survival. They're colorful and exciting, and the bullet patterns are awesome. It's just the scoring part I don't really appreciate.

I'm not sure if it qualifies as "extremely popular", but I've always been a bit lukewarm about Deathsmiles. Juggling the familiar around just feels bothersome to me, and I don't quite understand the scoring. Oh, and I've only played the North American version that's apparently missing some of the slowdown, but that would explain my immense hatred for the Forest of the Lost boss. (THOSE APPLES, ARGH.) It doesn't help that I don't like the aesthetics, and feel compelled to hide the box so I don't get sideways glances from my friends.

[dpful]

-don't forget the serious tone, nothing cutesy about it which is rare

Those pilots are pretty cute

[lilmanjs]

Raiden Fighters Jet. how anyone can like a game where you have to have medals collect and if you get the wrong number of slave icons, the darn medal follows them when they go to attack. I do like the first 2 games in the series, but I've never understood how people like a game which is pretty much a remix of the first 2 and has a stupid medal collecting system where you must grab tons of medals and have it at some point explode to get a good score. really baffles me.

[Chaos Phoenixma]

I'm not sure if it qualifies as "extremely popular", but I've always been a bit lukewarm about Deathsmiles. Juggling the familiar around just feels bothersome to me, and I don't quite understand the scoring. Oh, and I've only played the North American version that's apparently missing some of the slowdown, but that would explain my immense hatred for the Forest of the Lost boss. (THOSE APPLES, ARGH.) It doesn't help that I don't like the aesthetics, and feel compelled to hide the box so I don't get sideways glances from my friends.

Deathsmiles NA was patched

If you're playing White Label or 1.1, you can safespot the apple attack

If you're playing Black Label or MBL 1.1, lots of people bomb that anyway.

[Special World]

To be honest, I really don't like any of the Raiden Fighters series. It comes so close to being great: I love all those ships, the graphics are nice, and medalling is pretty cool. But man, they really need to tone down the bullet speed imo, and add some more bullets. It doesn't have to be bullet hell slow or anything, but the bullets are so fast that I can't imagine people can avoid some of them without memorizing. Also, even though I love medalling in theory, the scoring system in the Fighters series seems completely retarded to me. It seems like there's a lot of memorization required in order to put up decent scores. Maybe I just didn't spend enough time with them, but the ludicrous bullet speed ruins it for me.

[postmanmanman]

I'm not sure if it qualifies as "extremely popular", but I've always been a bit lukewarm about Deathsmiles. Juggling the familiar around just feels bothersome to me, and I don't quite understand the scoring. Oh, and I've only played the North American version that's apparently missing some of the slowdown, but that would explain my immense hatred for the Forest of the Lost boss. (THOSE APPLES, ARGH.) It doesn't help that I don't like the aesthetics, and feel compelled to hide the box so I don't get sideways glances from my friends.

Deathsmiles NA was patched

If you're playing White Label or 1.1, you can safespot the apple attack

If you're playing Black Label or MBL 1.1, lots of people bomb that anyway.

Ah, I never even heard about the patch. Then I guess I just suck, which isn't terribly surprising. I do usually bomb through it, since I really can't tell how to dodge it otherwise... the apples' hitboxes aren't terribly well defined.

[RNGmaster]

Anything with medalling (aside from Cyvern, but I mainly like that one for the awesome-factor).

[MathU]

Raiden Fighters Jet. how anyone can like a game where you have to have medals collect and if you get the wrong number of slave icons, the darn medal follows them when they go to attack. I do like the first 2 games in the series, but I've never understood how people like a game which is pretty much a remix of the first 2 and has a stupid medal collecting system where you must grab tons of medals and have it at some point explode to get a good score. really baffles me.

You know you can get rid of the tracking-type medal by making it explode at the end of the very first level (quite easily too, it's really just a matter of knowing where the hidden miclus at the end is). Then the medal chaining is exactly like the first two games for the rest of the game.

[cfx]

.

[Sumez]

So you can see them

[Vamos]

To be honest, I really don't like any of the Raiden Fighters series. It comes so close to being great: I love all those ships, the graphics are nice, and medalling is pretty cool. But man, they really need to tone down the bullet speed imo, and add some more bullets. It doesn't have to be bullet hell slow or anything, but the bullets are so fast that I can't imagine people can avoid some of them without memorizing. Also, even though I love medalling in theory, the scoring system in the Fighters series seems completely retarded to me. It seems like there's a lot of memorization required in order to put up decent scores. Maybe I just didn't spend enough time with them, but the ludicrous bullet speed ruins it for me.

Bullet speed and memorisation is where the challenge and thrill is at for raiden games "they" dont need to tone down anything , ah whats the point just go and play cave or touhou .

[Special World]

Bullet speed and memorisation is where the challenge and thrill is at for raiden games "they" dont need to tone down anything , ah whats the point just go and play cave or touhou .

I play more than just Cave games, and I haven't played any Touhou. If you can reflex dodge all those break-neck bullets then fine, but a lot of people feel that as a general rule, strict memorization should be frowned upon. It's why people dislike Horis' wall-crashing moments and why they dislike Dodonpachi's chaining system.

I'm not sitting here saying "Maaaaaaan, Gate of Thunder's bullets are too fast" or "Dammit, Raizing needs to tone that shit down." I am specifically saying their bullets are too fast because it seems like you have to learn where they're coming from before they're shot. I don't recall having this problem with Raiden IV or Raiden III, though I haven't played either in a good while. Maybe I'll refresh my memory with all three (five) games later. Watching vids on Youtube, none of the bullets look amazingly fast. Either way, I still dislike the scoring.

Don't be a condescending douche. It makes STGs look bad when every player is so hostile.

[apple arcade]

I'm going to get hated for this.. but Ketsui.

I really don't understand why this game gets so much praise. I'm not saying it's bad, but I enjoy a handful of other shmups over this one.

It's the hideous cover art. Totally ruins the gameplay.

If they would have only used the 2nd apocalypse cover art that DFK BL is a play of, the gameplay would be 100x better.

xD

[Vamos]

Don't be a condescending douche. It makes STGs look bad when every player is so hostile.

LOL Makes STGs look bad? reality check no one is looking at STGs in the first place.