Mushihime Sama Ps2 impressions

[scunge]

After watching the forums over the past week or so , and getting a little worried over my parcel...( sent out on the 20th - yehhh right..!!! )...Its finally turned up at my local post office, Along with a nice little charge of 11.59 to customs and excise...

Dont give up CVM they're trickling through...

[scunge]

Just got back from the post office - And the game was posted from hong kong on the 25 - recived in london on the 28 - Delivered to my local sorting office on the 2 - and has sat around for 4 days down the frikkin road until they decided to get off they're fat asses and write to tell me that i have to pick it up in person..All for an extra charge of 4.00 postal handling fee..

But at least it's here . . .

[Icarus]

... I'm curious...considering all the similarities that are supposed to exist between Ibara and Garegga, what makes the difference between "you can only take this idea so far" and "it's a great variation on this theme," or something like that? Is it because Cave has tweaked its "formula" several times, while Garegga-esque systems haven't appeared as often, or is it something else?

Tell me, BM. Why is it that I find myself more excited by G.Rev's past, present and future offerings than I am with the announcement that Cave are considering "Ibara 2" and "Espgaluda 2"? Therein lies the answer to your question.

[roushimsx]

Got bored and decided to try rotating my screen 90degrees via the drivers and then try capturing a tate video

i think it looks pretty nice; i might have to do this more often

It's h264 encoded, so you'll need the latest ffdshow or quicktime or something to view it. Quality doesn't look that bad, though it IS a little washed out. Compare it to the video I posted back on page 2 or 3 or whatever

[Randorama]

Tell me, BM. Why is it that I find myself more excited by G.Rev's past, present and future offerings than I am with the announcement that Cave are considering "Ibara 2" and "Espgaluda 2"? Therein lies the answer to your question.

Border Down was G.Darius II, Senkou no Ronde is quite original (but not strictly a shmup), Under Defeat seems to be Zero Gunner 2 with Gyrodine-like orientation. Uhm, i wouldn't blame Cave for recycling, as everyone is doing the same. How many "chapter 3" are going to appear? And if you ignore the different name (Homura sounds like Vasara 3, gameplay-wise), how many "omg completely new idea" shmups are around?

And beside that, Mushihime sama does play a bit like DDP2, in case you wonder.

[Icarus]

Border Down was G.Darius II, Senkou no Ronde is quite original (but not strictly a shmup), Under Defeat seems to be Zero Gunner 2 with Gyrodine-like orientation. Uhm, i wouldn't blame Cave for recycling, as everyone is doing the same. How many "chapter 3" are going to appear? And if you ignore the different name (Homura sounds like Vasara 3, gameplay-wise), how many "omg completely new idea" shmups are around?

Even still, I'd like to see something different from Cave. At least G.Rev are trying new things (and some older, updated things) with each successive game, rather than take Border Down's system and "tweak" it.

Fair enough, I'm not blaming Cave for recycling stuff at all. The games are fun. I'm happy the port is here, and I can play it at home without forking out for the PCB. But they have the developers, the fanbase, the financial power. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it, tweak it" is all well and good, but please, at least give us a bit more variety -_-

And beside that, Mushihime sama does play a bit like DDP2, in case you wonder.

Yeah, I noticed that as well. Bee Storm wasn't strictly Cave, though...

[Randorama]

The point is that Cave have started with more basic ideas than other companies and most of their titles look more variegated because they always found ingenious ways to "shouffle things around". While, for instance, Psikyo shmups were "let's add this, and tweak/change the rest of the past game", Cave have followed a different recycling process. What they should is giving up a number of concepts like chains or any tricks based on tapping vs holding fire, and i'd thrown in the idea of bullet-cancel. They were the ones who started with more ideas, hence they survived the apparent selection of copanies...Of course, if they do Esp.Galuda 2 and reinvent the wheel of shmupping, any title will do.

[bpe]

fast, aimed deadly bullets, small patterns, hazards from scenery and sneaky enemies - and it is those kinds of games I'm good at.

You misspelled "Raiden III" Damn I hate that shit.

[BulletMagnet]

"If it ain't broke, don't fix it, tweak it" is all well and good, but please, at least give us a bit more variety -_-

Well, maybe Ibara signifies a bit of a change in the weather, so to speak...though if the arcade-goers aren't receiving it well, then perhaps not. But if that's the case, then it's not really Cave's fault that it "sticks with what works," because if it doesn't then they lose money, because the players won't pay for it; I know that you already are somewhat critical of the shmupping community at large because many players are hesitant to "think outside the box" as far as their views on shmups go, but in that case then you can't blame Cave for their trends, at least not entirely.

And one thing I do think Cave deserves credit for, if nothing else, is that it pretty consistently gets the basics right; its bullets are easy to see, control is tight, difficulty is definitely there, but the game is accessible, presentation is good, few "cheapo" moments, etc...I'll definitely agree up to a point that their stuff has started to look the same more and more as time has gone on, but if you look beyond that they're at least making sure not to trip up at points where other developers, while perhaps more "innovative," have sometimes dropped the ball on more fundamental stuff.

In any event, I have finally given in and ordered Mushi (first full-priced game I've bought in ages...though I also got Petite Princesse and Taito Memories, plus a few others along with it, to make sure I completely bankrupt myself ), so I'll hafta reserve judgement on it for a couple of weeks till it gets here.

[SAM]

And one thing I do think Cave deserves credit for, if nothing else, is that it pretty consistently gets the basics right; its bullets are easy to see, control is tight, difficulty is definitely there, but the game is accessible, presentation is good, few "cheapo" moments, etc...I'll definitely agree up to a point that their stuff has started to look the same more and more as time has gone on, but if you look beyond that they're at least making sure not to trip up at points where other developers, while perhaps more "innovative," have sometimes dropped the ball on more fundamental stuff.

Yes, that is way I like Cave too. They always put enemy bullets on the most upper layer. The bullets are big and bright. There is no excues in getting killed just because you can't see it. In DDP DOJ they even color coded the bullets, so that you can tell which particalar bullet is from which patterns / enemys. In Cave's game, there won't be enemy coming onto the screen from the bottom. Enemy shoting less at the bottom of the screen. Enemy position in stages are well thought out. Their games are real hard but never impossible.

That's why I like Cave.

P.S. - I own a Sanwa Joystick now, players on my island never failed to realized how good these Japanese Style Joysticks are. May be, that is because all the Acrade here are using Japanese Style Joysticks. But people on this island have never seen a Bat style Joysticks anyways...

P.P.S. - I know why I cannot bet my hi-score in the acrede now: they have Sanwa on their control panel....

[Dylan1CC]

I'll agree w/ the Mushi is rather bland. Don't get me wrong. It's fun, but as I've stated before in this thread, I'd much rather have one mode, somewhere between original and maniac. I think they just tried too hard to please everyone this time.

As for the port... well... really, anyone could've done this good of a job. Props to Taito for actually doing it. Jeers to them for not putting as much heart into it as they could have. I think I have the right to say that as they're a company I've adored in my younger years.

Somewhere between original and maniac? That sort of mode would be a little too easy IMHO. I think the first 2 modes are balanced very well difficulty wise, sure not everyone can do well in maniac so original is there for arcade novices to get better before they move onto maniac. And Ultra is an over the top treat to behold. Props to Cave for giving a nice sense of variety challenge wise (IMHO).

[CMoon]

I think the first 2 modes are balanced very well difficulty wise, sure not everyone can do well in maniac so original is there for arcade novices to get better before they move onto maniac. .

Are you sure that 'original' is easier than 'maniac'? I thought they were just different styles of play.

[Dylan1CC]

I think the first 2 modes are balanced very well difficulty wise, sure not everyone can do well in maniac so original is there for arcade novices to get better before they move onto maniac. .

Are you sure that 'original' is easier than 'maniac'? I thought they were just different styles of play.

Huh? Well, original has much less bullets to deal with than maniac so I'd say it's easier.

But if I'm missing something here then help me out.

[CMoon]

Huh? Well, original has much less bullets to deal with than maniac so I'd say it's easier.

But if I'm missing something here then help me out.

I think it is more like Cave (maniac) vs. Psikyo (Original). Original has faster bullets (a lot faster) and aimed right at you. Maniac has tons of bullet spam that seems to nearly fill the screen. I didn't think either was easy--in fact, I was under the impression that each represented a different playing style, not difficulty. If you want easy, play arrange (which I also don't find quite as easy as everyone says it is.)

[Dylan1CC]

Huh? Well, original has much less bullets to deal with than maniac so I'd say it's easier.

But if I'm missing something here then help me out.

I think it is more like Cave (maniac) vs. Psikyo (Original). Original has faster bullets (a lot faster) and aimed right at you. Maniac has tons of bullet spam that seems to nearly fill the screen. I didn't think either was easy--in fact, I was under the impression that each represented a different playing style, not difficulty. If you want easy, play arrange (which I also don't find quite as easy as everyone says it is.)

All I know is I had an easier time staying alive in original than Maniac. But it's been a week since i played original so I will give it another spin to see what you mean.

edit: a considerably easier time staying alive in original

[cigsthecat]

Don't listen to the hype, Original is much easier than Maniac. And please, stop comparing Original to Psikyo. They're much better than that.

[Dylan1CC]

Don't listen to the hype, Original is much easier than Maniac. And please, stop comparing Original to Psikyo. They're much better than that.

Well, duh.

[Rob]

Why did you bold that?

[Dylan1CC]

Why did you bold that?

For emphasis?

[Rob]

I didn't realize you were such a big fan of Psikyo.

[Dylan1CC]

I didn't realize you were such a big fan of Psikyo.

Well, to be fair, I don't have a real "fave" company these days, they're tied up a bit.

[Herr Schatten]

Don't listen to the hype, Original is much easier than Maniac.

I think it really depends on what you're used to/feel comfortable with.

With my not-so-impressive skills, after playing both modes for maybe a total of 4-5 hours over the last week, I can get to the middle of stage 3 in both original and maniac. And while definitely maniac is harder than original, it's not much harder. But maybe this changes in stages 4 and 5?

Interesting side note: I find the bosses in maniac a whole lot easier than in original due to the slowness of the bullets, while I find the actual stages easier in original.

[GaijinPunch]

Original is definitely easier than Manic. Manic isnt' that hard (if you're not scoring) up until stage 4... then it sucks. You have to memorize several parts (or bomb, or pull of some wacky shit, which sometimes works). If original had some type of Cave signature scoring system, I'd probably be happy with it, but I'm not. While Maniac is fun, it just seems a bit overboard. Hence - I would rather have one mode somewhere in the middle.

[Icarus]

Well, maybe Ibara signifies a bit of a change in the weather, so to speak...though if the arcade-goers aren't receiving it well, then perhaps not. But if that's the case, then it's not really Cave's fault that it "sticks with what works," because if it doesn't then they lose money, because the players won't pay for it; I know that you already are somewhat critical of the shmupping community at large because many players are hesitant to "think outside the box" as far as their views on shmups go, but in that case then you can't blame Cave for their trends, at least not entirely.

You'd be jaded and overly critical as well if you saw games - not just shmups, but in any genre - that were once classed as highly innovative now labeled as shit because of the lack of understanding, or over-complexity, or sheer difficulty, or whatever; while games that really offer nothing new in terms of gameplay hailed as the best thing since sliced bread.

But then again, who am I to dictate who should like certain types of games? If people prefer certain types of games, then that's fine, it's all a matter of personal preference. I know what I like though.

While I can't really blame Cave for going the tweak route - I've said it many times in this thread so far, it's good that they are consistent about their methods and approaches, and they do keep a sense of familiarity within their games - this Cave fan also believes that if Cave really put their collective minds to it, they could create the shmup that redefines the genre. If anything, there have only been a handful of games that can fit that category, and that is the kind of game I would like to see from Cave in the near future.

And yes, I agree that sticking with what works puts food on the table. But taking a few risks can yield greater rewards.

If anything, Cave are going Konami - sequelitis, but on a more subtle level.

But now we are heading into off-topic territory.

So, on-topic: Mushi, great game, very solid, good fun; but for me, nothing really attention-grabbing. One for a quick go at most.

[Ord]

Postman's just been........STILL waiting.

[Acid King]

Like I said, I do like the game, but to me, it feels like another Cave chaining manic with different graphics. You can only take the chaining system ideas so far IMO,

Mars Matrix should've killed off enemy chaining 5 years ago.

Replacing chaining with chaining? Awesome...

[Rob]

Yeah, a much more versatile and clever evolution that makes the original concept seem old and uninspired.

[CVM]

Postman's just been........STILL waiting.

Ditto...

[MadSteelDarkness]

Postman's just been........STILL waiting.

Ditto...

Awww, man...

My sympathies to both of you gents.

[pixelcorps]

my only major quibble is the solid bullet clouds..

in my books.. no gap means NO GAP..

it seem just by luck i dodge through SOLID masses of bullets.

its rather silly really..

if there's a VISUAL gap, I know my hitbox can get through it, but , hitboxes on bullets... nah.. not my bag...