Bullet Soul - (STG/5pb/Xbox360)

[originalz]

EOJ's review of the game seems extremely harsh: http://www.cave-stg.com/?p=1291

EOJ loves the clusterfuck named Deathsmiles IIX.

Nuff said.

Well, logically it could refute his criticism. If deathsmilesIIX was known to be really poor, and EOJ likes it, it's reasonable to be more skeptical of his opinion of other games. But in this case DIIX may be a poor example of bad taste.

Doesn't EOJ consider Strike Witches to be his favorite non-CAVE shooting game or something like that?

[Zeron]

Who gives a shit what EoJ likes and not?

[Special World]

Who gives a shit what EoJ likes and not?

Not me! It's fun to read his reviews, though, and I usually agree with him on a number of points.

For me, this game is heartbreaking. Not because it's a bad game; it's actually quite fun. But it's heartbreaking to think just how fun and unique the game could be with an in-depth scoring system put into place. Even something as simple as giving the souls a point value would do wonders for the game's longevity.

I really hope 5pb has something in store for the DLC that'll blow me away. It seems like they hit everything on the head except the scoring system: the graphics and are fantastic, the ship types are varied, and the game controls very well. For once I'm hoping that a company withheld the goods, waiting for a DLC release. It would make too much sense for 5pb to release this game to invite the casual shooter fans before dropping some intense high-scoring DLC. The only thing stopping this game from being an A+ title is 5pb themselves. I hope they're taking this time to scope out opinions for the game, so they can refine that extra mode as much as possible. Really, I don't think it would even take more than a week to turn this into one of the best shooters ever released. My thoughts:

1. Refine proximity scoring into "gradual" increases rather than one flat rate. Allow people to swoop in on enemies for a quick multiplier increase before they're forced to back away from oncoming bullets. Multiplier gauge increase rate should vary greatly depending on distance. These allow for a lot more scoring variance. Also consider Futari style item shedding at closest range, because people love shinies.
2. Give extra multiplier gauge or points for canceling more bullets. Slight increases to the multiplier would probably work better.
3. Make each soul worth a small amount of points, affected by the multiplier.

[stryc9]

Guess what? wrong wrong wrong wrong WRONG. On my first credit I made it about halfway thru level 4 by using the old 'I just got this and I don't know what I'm doing so I'll just play to survive' technique, and felt kinda babied and ripped off by all the cancelling. But a good few hours in, I watched a few high-level replays and started going for score with good old fashioned point blanking. I lost my first life towards the end of level 1, so I hit restart. Happened again! This is where the game is. If your gonna play this one for survival of the first loop then you might as well sell the damn thing now; it's a waste of time. You won't be satisfied I guarantee. But go for max score and you will come away from a credit on this with the same feeling you would have after a decent run on any similar game, I did. Such is the nature of proximity based scoring; the difficulty level is tightly woven into the risk/ reward element.
OK, the souls don't do shit for you, which is IS kinda boneheaded of course given the game's title, but after a while of taking stupid risks just to push my score further and seeing the bullets practically touch my ship then 'ghost' and pass through me was enough.
Look, this isn't the greatest show on earth, and the lack of modes spoil it a bit for sure - the boat has been pushed out quite a ways recently in regards to arrange modes in verts and this hasn't followed suit which is kinda jarring, but overall I think this is pretty top drawer stuff, all the bonuses coming up are fantastic and don't obscure your view of the action at all like as was previously suggested, The music isn't horrible either, although that's a bit more subjective. An example of bad shooter music to me would be Shiki II, now that was shit. This has plenty of energy and fits the action well.
Love 90% of the visuals too, it's got polys but doesn't look like a cardboard box festival this time around, sporting some pretty nice enemies and tight backgrounds.
Look, I could go on all day but I won't cos I'm planning on having some credits on this soon. I knew this would polarize opinions. I ignored DS2X at first cos of all the negatory press around here - big mistake. Whats the bet Eschatos is catching heat ATM as well, and if I check the thread and find that it is, I'll buy it cos that must mean it's great

PS: making the souls worth points if you think about it wouldn't work well with the point blanking as you would be chasing clumps of the fuckers around the screen instead of being positioned ready at the top...

[Special World]

Whoa buddy, I do go for proximity kills. I'm not saying the game is too easy as I'm not very good, I'm just saying that IMO a simple proximity system doesn't really cut it these days. Also, my idea was that risk/reward would be enhanced by making it so that canceling more bullets = more points/multiplier. Not only would you be getting up close, but you'd actually be waiting for enemies to spit the maximum amount of flak before canceling. I had considered that the souls being worth points would distract from proximity, but I think that could be remedied by making them worth a relatively negligible amount of points, and therefore only useful to eke out the maximum high scores, a sort of scoring risk/reward where you risk valuable positioning time to place yourself just above the competition. Also, readying yourself for oncoming enemies wouldn't necessarily preclude collecting souls, as there would often be a sort of indirect-but-quick path that would run through the souls in time to meet foes.

Also, I definitely love Deathsmiles IIX and Eschatos, despite both games having bad (in Eschatos's case, terrible) graphics. Eschatos itself is a pretty fun game with a lot of content, but what makes the purchase for me are RSS and CS, two absolutely amazing games. I almost wish Eschatos played exactly like them! The posts in the Eschatos topic are actually overwhelmingly positive. Really, I've been spending a ton of time with the Eschatos pack, and not so much with Bullet Soul. I enjoy Bullet Soul, it's just lacking in content and depth, imo.

[stryc9]

Yo Spec World, the start of my post wasnt directly aimed at your preceding post dude! The funny thing is I do agree with most of the concerns, they just arent game breaking for me. You are right though. 5BP are just a week or two away from turning something really good into something fantastic. I just think what shipped passes muster well already.
PS I think my post has a bit of an edge to it cos I'm still a little peturbed by the EOJ review...

[burgerkingdiamond]

Yeah, playing this game for survival is just not gonna cut it. It's stupidly easy. Unfortunately for myself and many others pure proximity scoring is tedious and just not that fun. I hope they come out with some decent DLC with extra modes or something to add to the scoring. If they do then I'll probably buy this. I want to buy it now cuz I really like the presentation/music/pretty colors, but without the gameplay I can't justify it.

As for Eschatos, I heard that JSS doesn't have TATE... That sucks!!!! I've watched some vids on YouTube and it looks fucking sweet. Unfortunately I have my xbox in my candy and rotating the monitor is such a BITCH, so I just leave it in TATE. Someday I need to get and Egret II so I can play some Horis and stuff like JSS..

[burgerkingdiamond]

I'm really liking the opening menu song. Some of the guitar work is a little sloppy, but overall I like. I'll probably end up getting this used mainly for the OST and just to have in the collection. If anyone is disgusted enough to want to sell their copy already let me know.

[Special World]

Yo Spec World, the start of my post wasnt directly aimed at your preceding post dude! The funny thing is I do agree with most of the concerns, they just arent game breaking for me. You are right though. 5BP are just a week or two away from turning something really good into something fantastic. I just think what shipped passes muster well already.
PS I think my post has a bit of an edge to it cos I'm still a little peturbed by the EOJ review...

No doubt, no worries. I am concerned that 5pb won't capitalize on this opportunity to turn this into one of my favorite games of all time, but we'll see. I have the sneaking suspicion that their new mode is gonna be some cop-out boss rush style thing, rather than something which actually changes the scoring mechanics. We'll see.

[E. Randy Dupre]

I think what's happening here is that this game maybe isn't supposed to be for the people who are already dedicated fans of the genre. I have absolutely no problem with a game being easier than the majority of other recent examples in its genre, when those examples are nearly all preaching to the converted by upping the difficulty each time. It's nice to play something that's just about directing your pointy end towards the bad guys and letting rip, without having to worry about whether or not you're alternating shot types with exactly the right timing/chaining enemies together/collecting every bonus item that appears.

Which isn't to say I don't also the games that *do* have deeper scoring mechanics and a higher difficulty level - I do - just that it's good to see an entry-level or 'sit back and relax' version of the same thing to go to when you're feeling lazy and simply want a blast.

And, as somebody who's rubbish at all shmups without endless hours of practice, I've got to say that I'm not finding it too easy at all.

This was never going to be a game for the hardcore. That much was obvious right from the moment we saw the first of the enormous SECRET BONUS flash graphics in screenshots.

[Kollision]

I think what's happening here is that this game maybe isn't supposed to be for the people who are already dedicated fans of the genre. I have absolutely no problem with a game being easier than the majority of other recent examples in its genre, when those examples are nearly all preaching to the converted by upping the difficulty each time.

QFT

Amen, buddy, took the words right outta my mouth.

[Udderdude]

I think what's happening here is that this game maybe isn't supposed to be for the people who are already dedicated fans of the genre.

Which is why it's a retail import title priced at $80 amirite

[Phellan Wolf]

I got the game a few days ago and I have to say that I agree with most of the people here. Bullet Soul never was intended for the hardcore shmup player. It is just and entry game for newbies. You have only to look to those flashy bonus text cases as Randy mentioned to see that it was never intended for a high level gameplay.
However I also think that the new DLC will be more agressive and it will maybe introduce a new and deeper scoring system just like the one that was first shown in the last TKGS.
Sure it lacks a lot of things from the best of the genre, but it is quite fun and will keep you entertained at least for while if you don't expect a Cave game for sure.

[emphatic]

If only this would play like Crimzon Clover.

[E. Randy Dupre]

I think what's happening here is that this game maybe isn't supposed to be for the people who are already dedicated fans of the genre.

Which is why it's a retail import title priced at $80 amirite

You're wrong if you're in the country of the game's origin, which is clearly where it's primarily intended to sell. Region-free is a bonus for the few western importers who want to bother - if it were meant as more than that, it'd have an English text option.

[Chaos Phoenixma]

proximity scoring isn't something I'd call for casual or newer players.

[chempop]

If only this would play like Crimzon Clover.

I would kill for a 360 port of CC.

I whole argument of "not intended for shmup players" is rediculous, since when do regular gamers decide to drop retail price for a 30min game (estimate). That's hogwash, if anything Bullet Soul was intended to milk the shmup gamer by limiting the release to a basic mode, I can't wait to see how much they charge for a hard difficulty...

It's pissing me off because I wanted to support 5pb and play this, but they have given me too many reasons not to.

[TheSoundofRed]

Took a break from Eschatos to play a few credits of this.

I also watched the top score replay on the leaderboards for the Police Chick ship. I noticed that the player uses the rapid shot, but kills the enemies with the lightning shot or alternative fire that comes out at the sides of the ship. This made the multiplier go up extremely fast. Although the scoring system is still relatively boring, it seems there are still some unknown strategies to maxing out score.

Or was this already a known thing?

[stryc9]

Took a break from Eschatos to play a few credits of this.

I also watched the top score replay on the leaderboards for the Police Chick ship. I noticed that the player uses the rapid shot, but kills the enemies with the lightning shot or alternative fire that comes out at the sides of the ship. This made the multiplier go up extremely fast. Although the scoring system is still relatively boring, it seems there are still some unknown strategies to maxing out score.

Or was this already a known thing?

Not sure, last time I heard that focus shot was the key to raising the multiplier bar and that was it. I'm gonna have to check out some more high level replays.

Now, regarding this being for newbies - I honestly think STG devs are looking to provide an experience these days that is accessible to seasoned players as well as amatures , as seen in Mushi Futari with the different modes, and the novice modes in the ports. In Bullet Soul's case, it's good for noobs cos they can sit back and let the enemies come to them, cancelling the danger from the bottom of the screen and maybe even get past the first stage without losing their credit. And then be sufficiently challenged later on in Stgs 3,4 and 5. Which they can now do, thanks to this game.
On the other hand if you have a few years of STG experience under your belt like me and the majority of this board, you will be sticking to the top of the screen for max score as is the norm for proximity verts.

This game has actually got harder for me as I've played, as the furthest I've got was on day one of recieving it. Iv'e noticed this with the Cave games as well, but not as pronounced as this. I don't think you can overlap your sprite onto enemies as much as Mushi Futari either, seems like the hitbox is slightly bigger than a pinprick in this which of course affects your ability to keep living whilst point-blanking.

[burgerkingdiamond]

I've started playing really aggressive, trying to point blank every single enemy. It does get more enjoyable, but still not difficult enough to please most hardcore players.

And yes, Crimzon Clover on 360 with TATE so I could play it in my cab would be simply amazing. Too bad it won't ever happen in a million years, but we can dream.

[Elixir]

I'm sure proximity scoring in the second loop is near impossible. The first time I played through without getting near enemies and it felt like I was playing a Touhou game on Hard.

I need more time with this before coming to a conclusion though, especially since I've been busy with MMP/PS and JSS mostly.

[whoozwah]

picked this up a the post office today. It's as hard as any other shmup I've ever played. I credit fed like a sumbitch to get to the end. The game expects you to point blank the game due to how fast the bullets come at you and if you suck at dodging, you WILL die, alot.

[Skykid]

picked this up a the post office today. It's as hard as any other shmup I've ever played. I credit fed like a sumbitch to get to the end. The game expects you to point blank the game due to how fast the bullets come at you and if you suck at dodging, you WILL die, alot.

Seriously conflicting messages here.

[TrevHead (TVR)]

I've started playing really aggressive, trying to point blank every single enemy. It does get more enjoyable, but still not difficult enough to please most hardcore players.

After reading through this tread I got more and more horrified as to just how bad this game could get, which is a shame considering it looks so damn good. However for a naturally aggressive player like me who like proximity scoring it wouldnt be so bad. (perhaps)

The idea that the game is so lacking in basic features which the upcoming DLC will make a Whole game is not the way for 5pb to endear themselves to shmup fans who are used to the way Cave do things. I expect many will buy the DLC but thats only because theyve already bought the game and want something out of it. (It wouldnt supprise me if all the DLC was already on the disk)

[whoozwah]

picked this up a the post office today. It's as hard as any other shmup I've ever played. I credit fed like a sumbitch to get to the end. The game expects you to point blank the game due to how fast the bullets come at you and if you suck at dodging, you WILL die, alot.

Seriously conflicting messages here.

the game was made to point blank. the bullets are fast and that discourages playing at the bottom of the screen because you have to dodge more stuff. I'm no good at point blank dodging (even though I try because it should eliminate the bullets faster). Thus I die alot.

I'm sure it'll get easier when I memorize the enemy patterns but I'm not playing the "pathetically easy" game everyone else seems to be playing.

[emphatic]

Is the demo out yet? Try before you buy, God dammit.

[Skykid]

Is the demo out yet? Try before you buy, God dammit.

I'm not buying it, I've heard enough.

[whoozwah]

Is the demo out yet? Try before you buy, God dammit.

only for suckers that actually pay for live.

[Special World]

I've started playing really aggressive, trying to point blank every single enemy. It does get more enjoyable, but still not difficult enough to please most hardcore players.

After reading through this tread I got more and more horrified as to just how bad this game could get, which is a shame considering it looks so damn good. However for a naturally aggressive player like me who like proximity scoring it wouldnt be so bad. (perhaps)

The idea that the game is so lacking in basic features which the upcoming DLC will make a Whole game is not the way for 5pb to endear themselves to shmup fans who are used to the way Cave do things. I expect many will buy the DLC but thats only because theyve already bought the game and want something out of it. (It wouldnt supprise me if all the DLC was already on the disk)

The game is actually a really great game in every respect except scoring and content. The ships, graphics, patterns, etc are all great fun. It just may be hard to justify a purchase with the lack of content and deep scoring. If you like proximity in general you should be fine, as long as you're aware that it's not as refined or visceral as Futari's. If you can enjoy old-school shooters that don't really rely on scoring mechanics, you'll have a blast.

[system11]

My copy arrived yesterday with Eschatos. I actually quite like Eschatos, and then I tried this one out second.

Holy fuck I love Bullet Soul. It put a smile about 70 miles wide on my face, something precious few games manage these days. I normally don't like proximity scoring, but in this one it's an educated gamble each time.

I made a recording of stage 2, after playing for half an hour - I thought more people could do with seeing the gameplay and insane shinies all over the screen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8b7J2hoU_w

And now I remember what fun felt like..