Which of the Touhou Games is the Best in the Series?

[RNGmaster]

Dudes, PMing exists for a reason. I will happily discuss things with you through those rather than in some unrelated thread.

no no it's more entertaining this way

[Bananamatic]

6 man discussions are rather time consuming via PMing

[TrevHead (TVR)]

Yes and had this been MoTK (a Touhou forum i frequent in case you don't know) everyone here but Naut would've been banned

Sometime in the future when Im ive had chance to play more of the games and formed an better opinion on the Touhou series I might pop over to the MoTK forum and have a decent descussion about the games I promise ill leave out trolling

In the past Touhou never clicked with me I think it must be when I first got into shmups I used an analog stick (and still do half the time) which is totally unsuited for tap dodging meaning the shmups I tended to play (which i prefer anyway) are arcade style shmups like BWR, DDP and Crimson Clover. Even when I briefly tried Touhou later on I found the stages boring and all the tap dodging unnatural to my play style.

However I feel that under all the shite graphics, the weird fandom and those bloody faeries there must be atleast a couple of very good games for scoring since a portion of this forums best score players wouldnt swear by them.

[Bananamatic]

UFO extra is pretty fun for scoring

[RNGmaster]

MoF is pretty lenient for a chain-based game - IMHO it's one of the best, due to the music and flexible difficulty. Also I love bombing for score.

[shadowbringer]

my opinion regarding scoreplay is that either you like it or hate it (for example, when you try to implement grazing and not focus so much on spellcard capture bonus or point item collection), but there are a lot of games like that (for me, at least, and seeing how people dislike certain scoring mechanics -- Garegga's, for example). Good luck with the games and the trolling

(don't mind my complaining, since my memorization ability is below average)

[Barrakketh]

Alright then. If I am so absurdly stupid then maybe you would enlighten me a bit about the reason we were probated in that period? I don't consider myself mentally challenged or anything like that and I don't want people calling me that without explaining exactly what they mean.

I would say, collectively (aiming at the "we" you used), being repeatedly off-topic. Your posts that I skimmed seem reasonable, so I don't know if you were probated because of that or something else.

But some of the others who were probated should have read the OP or should have been familiar with any of the previous threads that it was continuing and would know that just because the title says "Touhou Bitching/Whining Thread mk. 7" does not mean it is a thread for people to repeat the same damned things about what you don't like about Touhou. It's for venting about your failures. Then you have posts like this, which are off-topic and generally useless:

man, there should be more Cave hentai, those characters have potential. Wait what's this...oh goddammit Reco

lololol imagine touhou with the resources of a cave shmup (or pretty much any other arcade shmup)

then just fucking turn the extends off

great idea in garegga

It should already be clear that most of the Cave shmups are better than Touhou in every aspect.
Yes, even the music. This is a fact, not an opinion.
Go realize that.

...noob friendliness doesn't count.

Also, Manabu Namiki kicks ZUN's ass

Yeah, LLS was the easiest to Lunatic 1CC, but Reimu is just so hilariously over the top. I mean, how the hell do you actually avoid her attacks? Now it's just about going through the fight with brute bombing force.

(again with the bombing) Speaking of LLS Reimu on Lunatic...

Bananamatic was more or less the same shit as Treasurance, just with more sucking off Cave/Dodonpachi and complaints about resources (gleefully ignoring the extra bombs received as you died in DDP). If you've read his posts here it was basically the same thing at MoTK. I can't easily search Bananamatic's post history (deleted his account), but Treasurance was also bringing up Hellsinker in the Touhou threads back then. It's like a perpetual trolling machine, but isn't original or clever enough to warrant laughing at. I bet Bananamatic owns a Hibachi dakimakura.

And Naut has been trying to get Bananamatic to 1cc UFO lunatic since at least April of 2010

Oh, and Banana, you can't say that MoF Stage 5 isn't good music. Some of his earlier stuff is ear rape, especially PCB, but he's a good musician.

I don't like MoF Stage 5's music. Sanae's theme totally makes up for it, though. I also can't say that I care for the tunes in MoF stage 1/2 and their boss' themes. On the other hand, I love the stage3/4/6 themes.

ZUN's a good composer though. I've found that even if you don't like one of his tunes, someone else has probably made an arrangement of it that you can like. For instance, I love this arrangement of Yuka's PoFV theme even though I'm not nearly as keen on the game's version.

my opinion regarding scoreplay is that either you like it or hate it (for example, when you try to implement grazing and not focus so much on spellcard capture bonus or point item collection)

Man, I should totally upload the WR (or maybe I'd get the highest one with Marisa!A to show her some love) for SA to show what I consider the perfect example of how grazing can be badly implemented for score. There's so much fucking bombing for invulnerability (to supergraze the bosses) and then suiciding for more bombs to do it all again that it disgusts me.

Which is kinda funny, because I enjoy playing SA for survival (or not scoring, whatever floats your boat) more than any other game in the series.

[ChainsawGuitarSP]

the shmups I tended to play (which i prefer anyway) are arcade style shmups like BWR, DDP and Crimson Clover.

Wait, wait, wait... How is it possible for a shmup to not be arcade style? I don't understand.

[stryc9]

By being an imitation of an arcade shooter that doesn't pull it off.

[Zengeku3]

Alright then. If I am so absurdly stupid then maybe you would enlighten me a bit about the reason we were probated in that period? I don't consider myself mentally challenged or anything like that and I don't want people calling me that without explaining exactly what they mean.

I would say, collectively (aiming at the "we" you used), being repeatedly off-topic. Your posts that I skimmed seem reasonable, so I don't know if you were probated because of that or something else.

I don't know what Treasurance and Bananamatic said. What I know is that I was bashing UFO and people didn't like that so we argued and in the end, all of us very probated.

[Sapz]

Your probation was due to shitting over other people's accomplishments repeatedly. It's probably time to drop it. :V

Anyway, Mountain of Faith scoring is pretty awesome. The chaining is lenient in terms of breaking and such but strict since it's game-long and rewards spare lives well. In that respect it's actually kind of like Guwange.

[Bananamatic]

And Naut has been trying to get Bananamatic to 1cc UFO lunatic since at least April of 2010

And I've been successfully resisting for almost a year now

It's like a perpetual trolling machine, but isn't original or clever enough to warrant laughing at. I bet Bananamatic owns a Hibachi dakimakura.

motk still didn't realize that sarcasm isn't trolling and 99% of TCE's posts are pure sarcasm. If you can't take sarcasm or god forbid, opinions, you are a hopeless fanboy.

I accidentally created a huge shitstorm without breaking a single rule and even made them create 2 more absurd rules because the forum simply can't take criticism.

And I managed to get probated several times BEFORE these rules were put into place because TOUHOU IS SACRED

[TrevHead (TVR)]

the shmups I tended to play (which i prefer anyway) are arcade style shmups like BWR, DDP and Crimson Clover.

Wait, wait, wait... How is it possible for a shmup to not be arcade style? I don't understand.

Arcade shmups usually have fast pacing / flow and the player can make lots of U turns and left right movements to herd bullets (especially if just playing for suvival).

Many computer shmups just dont have this imo. Especially Touhou which is almost an sub genre in itself with all the tap dodging

[Zengeku3]

Your probation was due to shitting over other people's accomplishments repeatedly. It's probably time to drop it. :V

Oh right. Upon going back to read through that thread in question i realize what I did wrong. Thankfully i'm better at hiding my occasional insensitivity nowadays.

[apple arcade]

scarlet weather rhapsody

[ChainsawGuitarSP]

^ 8/10 I raged considerably.

[Obiwanshinobi]

How is it possible for a shmup to not be arcade style?

Shmups by Compile are something else (Zanac Special Version being their crowning echievement). They certainly don't resemble any arcade shmup known to me.

[TrevHead (TVR)]

I spent another hour or two with IN tonight and im starting to get used to remembering the scoring paths on some of the stages, my main problem is that I suck at the boss fights especially stages 4 and 5. I havnt got to stage 6 boss yet although I could if I just bombed my way though the bosses but theres no fun in that is there.

Another difficulty I have is balancing my human/demon meter as when I go above the point of collection to collect items I keep on been pushed to 100% human when I want to be 100% demon Grrr

Still im enjoying myself playing as the border/ shrine maiden team even if im not brilliant at it. BTW what do I need to do to unlock the individual characters? Are they worth playing with how the human/ demon meter works?

[RNGmaster]

I spent another hour or two with IN tonight and im starting to get used to remembering the scoring paths on some of the stages, my main problem is that I suck at the boss fights especially stages 4 and 5. I havnt got to stage 6 boss yet although I could if I just bombed my way though the bosses but theres no fun in that is there.

Another difficulty I have is balancing my human/demon meter as when I go above the point of collection to collect items I keep on been pushed to 100% human when I want to be 100% demon Grrr

Still im enjoying myself playing as the border/ shrine maiden team even if im not brilliant at it. BTW what do I need to do to unlock the individual characters? Are they worth playing with how the human/ demon meter works?

To unlock the solo chars you must 1cc as all 4 teams (any difficulty above Easy). It's a huge chore, but the video I showed you has some spots that work really well as Youmu solo (IMHO the best scoring character).

[TrevHead (TVR)]

Ah thx for letting me know, Beating the game with all 4 teams does sound a chore but I suppose if I ignore scoring and am decent enough with the bosses it shouldnt be too difficult. sorry to ask another question but what is an average score for beating the game with the border team? (thats for someone playing for score not purely suvival) plus whats the average score of stage 6 alone? Im just trying to guage my progress as I plan to practice scoring in just stages 1 to 5 and leave 6 for later on.

[Barrakketh]

I spent another hour or two with IN tonight and im starting to get used to remembering the scoring paths on some of the stages, my main problem is that I suck at the boss fights especially stages 4 and 5. I havnt got to stage 6 boss yet although I could if I just bombed my way though the bosses but theres no fun in that is there.

Another difficulty I have is balancing my human/demon meter as when I go above the point of collection to collect items I keep on been pushed to 100% human when I want to be 100% demon Grrr

Still im enjoying myself playing as the border/ shrine maiden team even if im not brilliant at it. BTW what do I need to do to unlock the individual characters? Are they worth playing with how the human/ demon meter works?

To unlock the solo chars you must 1cc as all 4 teams (any difficulty above Easy). It's a huge chore, but the video I showed you has some spots that work really well as Youmu solo (IMHO the best scoring character).

The world record has been set with Youmu, so that validates your opinion. However, the Magic and Border teams aren't too bad, either:

• 60億8392万8410点 - Youmu solo
• 59億4532万0720点 - Magic Team
• 59億3432万2970点 - Border Team

The last two runs were done by the same player (YASU).

[Chaos Phoenixma]

But Bananamatic and I weren't doing any such things with others accomplishments unless arguing that UFO is BS somehow classifies as that.

And even then, it still wasn't fair how the 3 of us got probated when the people that were flaming us when we were just arguing about a game didn't get anything, and that's much worse than arguing about a game.


Been screwing up my runs in everything lately though.


I also, still need to learn all the IN scoring tricks.

[RNGmaster]

Stage 6 is short but you can make craploads of points by beating all the Last Spells at the end. Those can be practices if you 1cc to them - they are then unlocked in Spell Practice for that character only.

[Heartbeam]

what is an average score for beating the game with the border team? (thats for someone playing for score not purely suvival)

Two billion on Normal sounds good. Barely reaching the score would almost land you in the 50th percentile for this team over at Royalflare, even though not everyone is scoring. It's a nice marker anyway, and most first clears that pass through the English uploader appear to range from 900M to 1.3B. Which doesn't mean anything here. Common scoring runs are too rare to form any ideas.

whats the average score of stage 6 alone?

It should account for roughly 45% of your total score.

[TrevHead (TVR)]

Thanks for the info chaps, ill make 2 billion my target on normal (although ive gotta 1CC it without bomb spamming first lol)

6 billion / 5.9 with the border team those are some freakishly high scores

[RNGmaster]

6 billion / 5.9 with the border team those are some freakishly high scores

YASU is the man at IN - he claims to have played 1800 hours of it. Can't knock his dedication!

[Zengeku3]

1800 hours? That's insane man. I think I haven't played much more than 1000 hours, if even that, at all shmups i've ever played combined.

[Narroo]

Heres are vids of most of Zun's games, just to take note is how his stage design evolved over time.

PC98 era
TH02 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YB8CEK5XKC0
TH03 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aoq8P6xGXoE
TH04 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YY9ME2UusP8
TH05 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=el9C34ay ... re=related
PC Era
TH06 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fCtDmjb ... re=related
TH07 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLq6F4Ixtok
TH08 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWjwi0FOEW8
TH09 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEIFzGuPJWU
TH10 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gENsqCIpq04
TH11 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFNxHXEM ... re=related
TH12 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpQRvHqm_9c
TH13 Pics only http://kourindou.exblog.jp/

If you look at Touhou's PC98 era ZUN was used more varied sprites although by TH05 all he used was 1 ghost sprite and the faery sprite in 2 or 3 colours. When Touhou comes to the PC is when ZUN's love affair with the bloody faeries really starts and thus his stages become blander for it.

I think 6, 7 & 8 is his worst period imo, TH 09 is a bit of a watershed with ZUN mixing the enemies up (if only slighty). This last 3 games up to TH12 ZUN has lazily used the same sprites between them, but I prefer these to his earlier windows games as atleast the mini boss like baddies have large wings and are easy to tell apart from the popcorn.

Its a shame ZUN cant give up his faery addiction and copy from those doujin circles who have copied from him but drop the faeries and add their own twist like Exceed 3rd Black Package (I loved playing BP for score), Seihou 3 + RebRank, Hellsinker, TwINs.

I wonder why he continues to use just 2 or 3 faery sprites in his games. Any of you Touhou Nuts have any information on this? And you guys who like me are put off by the games bland stages, could you begin to like Touhou if ZUN went back to making stages like his PC98 games or scrapped those faeries forever and used somthing like Rebrank, TWins and Exceed? I know I would

I can! The first five Touhou games were made by a team of people. After 5, they decided to try something new, eventually making Seihou, while ZUN hung back and rebooted Touhou.
As for the lack of sprites...I actually don't mind it too much.
1st off, unlike other shmups, bullet patterns erupting from an enemy are arbitrary: A single fairy can either shoot a single bullet, or create complex weave. So having a huge variety is kinda pointless, since functionally, other games use enemy types to tell you what they'll shoot.
2nd: The stages are kinda an overly warm-up for the bosses....
3rd: Though it might sound weird, the stage's visuals are more focused on the bullets than the fairys', and the fairies have a palatable look that I could stand after seeing tons of them. (Also, the fairies do occasionally get changed up: Imperishable night had bunny fairies...that's not saying much.)
4th: And finally: A variety of random, soulless, aircraft that do the same thing are actually unappealing to me. I'd rather have a small variety of neat-looking, interesting fairies, then many random planes.

That said, more enemy types would be a good change.

[Chaos Phoenixma]

I still don't like a lot about UFO, but playing it a lot can help improve your opinion on some of the stuff.

Surprisingly, I actually got Parasol Star Memories and King Kraken Strike, which I still consider to be horrible on my 1cc.

1ccing it felt good though, maybe because I never have to play the game seriously again.

[Mischief Maker]

It you're playing Shanghai Alice games for survival you're playing them wrong.

It's a tossup for me between Imperishable Night and Perfect Cherry Blossom for best in the series.

Mountain of Faith is the best looking game in the series, in terms of pure art design, even though its scoring system is comparatively pants.

I found the UFO and SA demos to be dull, dull dull.

Do you honestly think without the popularity of Touhou blazing the way for indie shmups that anyone would have attempted to create Crimzon Clover, Samidare, or Hellsinker?