(SOUNDS LIKE) No more shmups from Aksys :/

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Re: (SOUNDS LIKE) No more shmups from Aksys :/

Post by Lance Boyle »

Last_Cancer wrote:If Arcana Heart 3, a game from the more popular BeatemUp genre
Wrong.
Last_Cancer wrote:The Anime/Otaku Fanbase in the USA is on PS3 and not on 360
Last_Cancer wrote:the 360 is the Kinect/FPS-console.
Last_Cancer wrote:PS3-versions of Aksys games in the USA always sell better on PS3 and not on Xbox360.
[citation needed]
Last_Cancer wrote:Xbox 360 is the wrong platform for CAVE games
I agree completely. They should be ported to Wii just like the Milestone collection and Castle Shikigami 3.
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bcass
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Re: (SOUNDS LIKE) No more shmups from Aksys :/

Post by bcass »

Given that the 360 already has one of the best (if not the best) shmup libraries of any console ever, I'm not sure how you can come to the conclusion that the 360 is primarily just a Kinect/FPS-console. Also, I would hate to see Cave's games on the Wii. Nintendo's online system is complete shit. Even basic stuff like leaderboards are very poorly implemented.
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Deca
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Re: (SOUNDS LIKE) No more shmups from Aksys :/

Post by Deca »

I may be completely wrong here but I seem to remember hearing that Sony was being all uppity about 2D games around the launch of the PS3, not allowing companies to release them on their system. If that's actually true that would probably explain why they went to the 360. Regarding the Wii, the PS2 didn't have quite enough juice to run Ketsui if I remember right. Even if the Wii is a bit more powerful than a PS2, they may have just wanted to go to something considerably more powerful on the off chance they release a game that might take advantage of it (Akai Katana?)

This is all complete speculation based on hearsay so take it with a grain of salt.
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Re: (SOUNDS LIKE) No more shmups from Aksys :/

Post by TrevHead (TVR) »

Im glad that most shmups are on the 360 and not other consoles. The Wii although has some great 1st party games and 2D platformers, rail shmups and lightgun games has an idiotic online system, the worst been the tiny file size limit on their downloadable games (the reason Super MeatBoy didnt see a Wii release).

Sony are their own worst enemy with the way theyve snubbed 2D shmups at the beginning and their insistance that PS3 games have widescreen support. If Cave went to Sony instead of MS ild imagine there would be little or no ports of their verts on this system and ones to make it wouldnt be true arcade ports but warped vertizontals just like what Grev are doing with their PS3 port of Mammaru-kun.

With Cave's change in direction, Sony and the fact they seem to have lost their USA publisher makes me worried as to if / when Cave will ever get around to making a brand new vertical shmup, with DS1/2 and Red Katana it doesnt look to be anytime soon :?

EDIT @ Deca - thats right, from what ive read on this forum Sony were very snobbish about retro 2D shmups and didnt want anything old looking on their new fancy console
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Re: (SOUNDS LIKE) No more shmups from Aksys :/

Post by t0yrobo »

Sony refused to let any games that weren't widescreen enabled on the console, that's why G.Revs Mamoruwhatever is getting the widescreen treatment for the PS3. I think the argument for shmups on the PS3 had merit, but changing development to the PS3 this late in the game would be stupid.
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Re: (SOUNDS LIKE) No more shmups from Aksys :/

Post by TrevHead (TVR) »

True but Cave have 2 widescreen titles with DS2 and Red Katana so PS3 development cant be totally ruled out
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Re: (SOUNDS LIKE) No more shmups from Aksys :/

Post by StarCreator »

So Aksys was at PAX East over the weekend, and out of obligation I decided to ask about future Cave games, if not to just demonstrate actual interest in the genre in person rather than just being another talking head on the Internet. The response I got was pretty much along the lines of "Deathsmiles did OK in sales, but didn't meet our expectations, it needs more support for us to consider bringing more games over".

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Re: (SOUNDS LIKE) No more shmups from Aksys :/

Post by Kiken »

StarCreator wrote:So Aksys was at PAX East over the weekend, and out of obligation I decided to ask about future Cave games, if not to just demonstrate actual interest in the genre in person rather than just being another talking head on the Internet. The response I got was pretty much along the lines of "Deathsmiles did OK in sales, but didn't meet our expectations, it needs more support for us to consider bringing more games over".
I seem to remember Aksys saying something quite similar during an interview after Shiki 3 was released. I guess they just sporadically license shmup releases.
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Re: (SOUNDS LIKE) No more shmups from Aksys :/

Post by Lance Boyle »

bcass wrote:Also, I would hate to see Cave's games on the Wii. Nintendo's online system is complete shit.
I was joking. The standard input devices are shit, there is no HD, and the hardware slowdown would be hilarious.
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Re: (SOUNDS LIKE) No more shmups from Aksys :/

Post by bcass »

I reckon the Wii could handle most of Cave's arcade ports. It's the only console this gen that can do true low-res over RGB scart (on the EUR model). That's pretty much the only thing it has going for it though.
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Re: (SOUNDS LIKE) No more shmups from Aksys :/

Post by MR_Soren »

StarCreator wrote:So Aksys was at PAX East over the weekend, and out of obligation I decided to ask about future Cave games, if not to just demonstrate actual interest in the genre in person rather than just being another talking head on the Internet. The response I got was pretty much along the lines of "Deathsmiles did OK in sales, but didn't meet our expectations, it needs more support for us to consider bringing more games over".
That's unfortunate, as I can't see other CAVE games doing well here if Aksys was unable to sell Deathsmiles. This also suggests that retail performance was a bigger issue than any trouble working together between CAVE and Aksys.

Once again, I'd like to thank certain elitist idiots for telling everybody to NOT buy the first and apparently only Cave port in North America. Good job, guys.
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Re: (SOUNDS LIKE) No more shmups from Aksys :/

Post by burgerkingdiamond »

MR_Soren wrote:
StarCreator wrote:So Aksys was at PAX East over the weekend, and out of obligation I decided to ask about future Cave games, if not to just demonstrate actual interest in the genre in person rather than just being another talking head on the Internet. The response I got was pretty much along the lines of "Deathsmiles did OK in sales, but didn't meet our expectations, it needs more support for us to consider bringing more games over".
That's unfortunate, as I can't see other CAVE games doing well here if Aksys was unable to sell Deathsmiles. This also suggests that retail performance was a bigger issue than any trouble working together between CAVE and Aksys.

Once again, I'd like to thank certain elitist idiots for telling everybody to NOT buy the first and apparently only Cave port in North America. Good job, guys.
yeah that's stupid. EVERY person in NA on this forum should have been there on release day to pick it up. I know I did. It was a great package for the price and so what if the slowdown isn't perfect. Most people haven't and never will play a DS PCB and would have never known the difference.
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Re: (SOUNDS LIKE) No more shmups from Aksys :/

Post by Deca »

I find the issue frustrating just because I am certain Akai Katana would do considerably better in the US than DS ever would have :/
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Re: (SOUNDS LIKE) No more shmups from Aksys :/

Post by Skykid »

MR_Soren wrote: Once again, I'd like to thank certain elitist idiots for telling everybody to NOT buy the first and apparently only Cave port in North America. Good job, guys.
I know I wasn't one of them (being in the UK and all), but it's a bit farfetched to think anyone on a forum could genuinely impact the sales of DS. Anyone who wanted it had it in their mind to buy it on release prior to knowing anything about the slowdown.

Personally, the slowdown issues would have stopped me from buying it if I were in the US. Why should I spend my money on a product that's a poor adaptation of the game I'm expecting to get? I don't understand this mentality of "buy the game even if it's cropped, because we've gotta support Cave, everyone spend your money!"
Fuck that. Keep your money.

If Aksys & Cave can't figure this out by putting their heads together, instead of releasing a patch so late that it's impossible to impact POS, they deserve to do badly.

Also, Deathsmiles is a really stupid choice to localise, there are many 360 Cave titles that would have been more palatable to western audiences.
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bcass
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Re: (SOUNDS LIKE) No more shmups from Aksys :/

Post by bcass »

I very much doubt there's a market (at retail) for much more than what they sold of this game. I thought the sales were quite high actually (exceeding those in Japan). The problem here is the amount of sales Aksys needed in order to make a decent profit after Cave have taken their share. It doesn't sound too positive for future Aksys localisations, but I suppose there are other 3rd party publishers out there who might take a stab at it (both in the US and Europe).
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Re: (SOUNDS LIKE) No more shmups from Aksys :/

Post by burgerkingdiamond »

Skykid wrote:
MR_Soren wrote: Once again, I'd like to thank certain elitist idiots for telling everybody to NOT buy the first and apparently only Cave port in North America. Good job, guys.
I know I wasn't one of them (being in the UK and all), but it's a bit farfetched to think anyone on a forum could genuinely impact the sales of DS. Anyone who wanted it had it in their mind to buy it on release prior to knowing anything about the slowdown.

Personally, the slowdown issues would have stopped me from buying it if I were in the US. Why should I spend my money on a product that's a poor adaptation of the game I'm expecting to get? I don't understand this mentality of "buy the game even if it's cropped, because we've gotta support Cave, everyone spend your money!"
Fuck that. Keep your money.

If Aksys & Cave can't figure this out by putting their heads together, instead of releasing a patch so late that it's impossible to impact POS, they deserve to do badly.

Also, Deathsmiles is a really stupid choice to localise, there are many 360 Cave titles that would have been more palatable to western audiences.

again, MOST people would not know about the slowdown issues if they weren't told about them. I played the game for months before I read about them on this forum, and enjoyed the game alot. It's simple. We have NO market for shmups. The fact that it came out at all is big deal and for $50 you got a nice LE box, a soundtrack, game, and a faceplate. Compared to the money I spend (which admittedly compared to many others on here is actually probably pretty low) on some other games/PCBs that's just a steal.

It is a port, not the actual arcade PCB. So there are bound to be some differences. I mean are there any 100% perfectly accurate arcade ports?? Maybe there are, I'm not asking rhetorically. I know that many people on here are very hardcore and I don't think that's a bad thing usually, but sometimes stuff is just blown out of proportion. Aksys by no means did a bad job.
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Re: (SOUNDS LIKE) No more shmups from Aksys :/

Post by brentsg »

burgerkingdiamond wrote:It is a port, not the actual arcade PCB. So there are bound to be some differences. I mean are there any 100% perfectly accurate arcade ports?? Maybe there are, I'm not asking rhetorically. I know that many people on here are very hardcore and I don't think that's a bad thing usually, but sometimes stuff is just blown out of proportion. Aksys by no means did a bad job.
None of this changes the fact that the game wasn't worth buying in its launch state if you had access to a superior version (PCB or JPN 360). I think it's pretty well documented that the slowdown was Cave's blunder and not Aksys, which is probably another reason they aren't anxious to localize another.
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Re: (SOUNDS LIKE) No more shmups from Aksys :/

Post by MR_Soren »

Skykid wrote:
MR_Soren wrote: Once again, I'd like to thank certain elitist idiots for telling everybody to NOT buy the first and apparently only Cave port in North America. Good job, guys.
I know I wasn't one of them (being in the UK and all), but it's a bit farfetched to think anyone on a forum could genuinely impact the sales of DS. Anyone who wanted it had it in their mind to buy it on release prior to knowing anything about the slowdown.
It's not just forums, it's Amazon reviews and word of mouth. This is extremely important as the smaller publishers rely upon word of mouth for a lot of their promotion. Most of the people on this forum have friends (even if that may seem far-fetched) who aren't serious shooter fans. As such, they look to people like us for opinions about specific shooters to whet their occasional appetite for something different. Saying, "No, it's a piece of shit, buy the Japanese version" is not going to convert a curious person into a customer of either version.

Personally, the slowdown issues would have stopped me from buying it if I were in the US. Why should I spend my money on a product that's a poor adaptation of the game I'm expecting to get? I don't understand this mentality of "buy the game even if it's cropped, because we've gotta support Cave, everyone spend your money!"
That is your choice, and that is fine. I'll admit that the slowdown issue is important to people who have been playing the Japanese PCB and want their home port to play exactly the same. However, the slowdown issue is unimportant to somebody who only dabbles in the genre or has never played a Japanese DS PCB enough to notice the difference, so it is silly to turn off potential new fans over an issue that is only relevant to people who are already playing the game at a highly competitive level.

I know that certain people out there would suggest that somebody like me is "only playing casually" and wants nothing more than to "credit feed and see all of the endings", but that is total bullshit. I may not be an expert at the game, but I play the game seriously and I play it for score. I've had a lot of fun with the game since I began playing on Jan 1. I knew going in that the slowdown wasn't arcade perfect, but I also knew that I would never play the PCB so the difference is irrelevant.

If Aksys & Cave can't figure this out by putting their heads together, instead of releasing a patch so late that it's impossible to impact POS, they deserve to do badly.
I have some technical theories about why the slowdown was changed the way it was, but there is really no point going into it here. Regardless, I think that wishing ill upon Aksys and Cave is the wrong attitude to have.
Also, Deathsmiles is a really stupid choice to localise, there are many 360 Cave titles that would have been more palatable to western audiences.
Like what? Their verts? Most people want their games to fill the screen. I think Red Katana would have been a better choice*, but the failure of DS may have ruined the chances of that.

* Actually, while playing a Red Katana trailer at work, a co-worker looked over my shoulder and said, "I don't know what that is, but it looks fucking sweet! Reminds me of playing 1942 at the arcade!" So yeah, I think the war/airplanes theme clicks with people.

brentsg wrote:None of this changes the fact that the game wasn't worth buying in its launch state IF you had access to a superior version (PCB or JPN 360).
That's a big "if" that excludes most of the NA version's intended audience.
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Re: (SOUNDS LIKE) No more shmups from Aksys :/

Post by burgerkingdiamond »

brentsg wrote:
burgerkingdiamond wrote:It is a port, not the actual arcade PCB. So there are bound to be some differences. I mean are there any 100% perfectly accurate arcade ports?? Maybe there are, I'm not asking rhetorically. I know that many people on here are very hardcore and I don't think that's a bad thing usually, but sometimes stuff is just blown out of proportion. Aksys by no means did a bad job.
None of this changes the fact that the game wasn't worth buying in its launch state if you had access to a superior version (PCB or JPN 360). I think it's pretty well documented that the slowdown was Cave's blunder and not Aksys, which is probably another reason they aren't anxious to localize another.
well it's pretty obvious that you wouldn't get the NA if you already have the JAP or PCB. That kind of goes without saying. But for people who won't spend the $1000 or whatever it is for a DS PCB and don't have a jap 360, the slowdown is negligible. For those who have played the PCB I can understand if you just can't deal with the game as it is, but that doesn't translate into universal truth for everyone else.

Don't get me wrong, I would like it to be as accurate as possible, and would love to see a patch. But it's just not a big enough deal to write off the game as a whole.
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Re: (SOUNDS LIKE) No more shmups from Aksys :/

Post by Skykid »

MR_Soren wrote:However, the slowdown issue is unimportant to somebody who only dabbles in the genre or has never played a Japanese DS PCB enough to notice the difference, so it is silly to turn off potential new fans over an issue that is only relevant to people who are already playing the game at a highly competitive level.
Nobody is intentionally turning off potential fans by speaking their mind. The NA release came under criticism from the existing fanbase who reside in the west. People who have had access to the game previously have a right to complain, such is the dynamic of the free market system. If you release a product considered sub-par (or in this case, inaccurate) then any kind of backlash is completely acceptable.
If this puts off potential buyers who wouldn't have known any different, tough shit, should have thought about that before modifying the game.
MR_Soren wrote:
If Aksys & Cave can't figure this out by putting their heads together, instead of releasing a patch so late that it's impossible to impact POS, they deserve to do badly.
I have some technical theories about why the slowdown was changed the way it was, but there is really no point going into it here. Regardless, I think that wishing ill upon Aksys and Cave is the wrong attitude to have.
I'm not wishing them ill, I'm criticising their practices. Criticism is customer feedback and is completely invaluable. If you need proof of this, just look at the accuracy of the UK release.
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for supporting Cave as a gamer, they make great software. But I don't get down on my knees and jerk off for any company expecting money from my pocket just 'because'. I used to think like that when I was about thirteen and had compulsions to collect things because of brand loyality over quality. That kind of addictive spendthrift allegiance can ruin you in later life.

In regards to localisation, you're asking what's better for the west's first taste of bonafide current-gen Cave gaming than a Halloween themed Hori full of dodgy pre-renders and over sexualised children flying about destroying giant cows?

Just about anything IMO, but I'd say Daiffukatsu particularly, as Dodonpachi is their best known global IP and newcomers can be shepherded with autobomb while getting a taste for what the company is all about.
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Re: (SOUNDS LIKE) No more shmups from Aksys :/

Post by MR_Soren »

Skykid wrote:Nobody is intentionally turning off potential fans by speaking their mind. The NA release came under criticism from the existing fanbase who reside in the west. People who have had access to the game previously have a right to complain, such is the dynamic of the free market system. If you release a product considered sub-par (or in this case, inaccurate) then any kind of backlash is completely acceptable.
Yes. Criticizing a game to potential newcomers about an issue those newcomers would not care about is just a passive aggressive way to punish Cave and Aksys. A more mature and sensible way to resolve that situation would be to send such criticisms directly to the companies involved instead of sabotaging their ability to sell the game.

If this puts off potential buyers who wouldn't have known any different, tough shit, should have thought about that before modifying the game.
Yeah, tough shit for people who don't import and tough shit for Aksys. Again, punishing the wrong people.

Regarding the modifications, here is my theory:

The Japanese 360 game has some programmed-in slowdown and some that is not programmed in, but rather a result of the 360 being overwhelmed by the on-screen action. (AKA, unintended slowdown) Considering that the 360 has been plagued by heating-related failures, it is quite possible that releasing a game which knowingly and repeatedly bogs down the system is against some coding practices set forth by Microsoft's NA branch. As such, Cave found a way to restructure the code in a way that wouldn't bog down the system for the US release. Unfortunately, this restructuring of the code also put less demands on the arcade-mode's emulation, so it failed to reproduce the slowdown that was on the original PCB.

Furthermore, descriptions of the patch changes suggest that all of the added-in slowdown was programmed in because they probably were not allowed to revert to the Japanese codebase due to worries about overheating.

Just a theory, but it fits all of the seemingly contradictory public statements. I know it's not going to change the minds of any haters, but I think understanding a situation makes it easier to at least empathize with the people who are trying to make the right choices and bring us an enjoyable game.
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Re: (SOUNDS LIKE) No more shmups from Aksys :/

Post by brentsg »

MR_Soren wrote:That's a big "if" that excludes most of the NA version's intended audience.
Agreed. A few posts back bkd was saying everyone in NA from this forum should have been picking up a copy.. So in that context, many Westerners on this forum have access to the PCB or the JPN release.
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Re: (SOUNDS LIKE) No more shmups from Aksys :/

Post by Skykid »

MR_Soren wrote:
Skykid wrote:Nobody is intentionally turning off potential fans by speaking their mind. The NA release came under criticism from the existing fanbase who reside in the west. People who have had access to the game previously have a right to complain, such is the dynamic of the free market system. If you release a product considered sub-par (or in this case, inaccurate) then any kind of backlash is completely acceptable.
Yes. Criticizing a game to potential newcomers about an issue those newcomers would not care about is just a passive aggressive way to punish Cave and Aksys. A more mature and sensible way to resolve that situation would be to send such criticisms directly to the companies involved instead of sabotaging their ability to sell the game.
You're approaching my comments from a very defensive point of view.
Nobody is attempting to punish Cave or Aksys. Why is it so difficult to accept that if you release a botched product (in anybody's eyes, particularly those who anticipate it the most) that people will vote with their mouths and not with their wallets?

I think that's completely fair.
Perhap's you're the type of guy who sits in a restaurant and orders a mexican burger but finds that there's no red onion on it, as it says in the menu, but decides not to bother mentioning it because you don't want to cause a scene for the restaurant. That's going to make you feel pretty crappy when it comes to paying the bill.

Deathsmiles NA had no onions.
Deathsmiles UK did.

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Re: (SOUNDS LIKE) No more shmups from Aksys :/

Post by MR_Soren »

I'm simply saying that discussing the issue within the community is sensible. Bad-mouthing the game to people outside the community about issues they do not care about harms the game and the community. That is not sensible.

Amazon Review

Until very recently, there were two reviews like this and fewer positive ones, dragging the score down around 3.5. I'm positive that it impacted sales.

EDIT: Reading it again, it sounds like EOJ wrote it himself, so I'm not surprised that this review's author was too in love with his own writing to edit it positively for the patched version.

Skykid wrote:Deathsmiles NA had no onions.
Deathsmiles UK did.
The NA version got it's onions before the UK version was released. I also hear it had more onions. Where's the boycott? Did it get a pass because fewer games get localized in Europe?
Last edited by MR_Soren on Tue Mar 15, 2011 5:43 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: (SOUNDS LIKE) No more shmups from Aksys :/

Post by brentsg »

What's an onion? Once again I need a Brit to English dictionary.
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Re: (SOUNDS LIKE) No more shmups from Aksys :/

Post by bcass »

MR_Soren wrote:Regarding the modifications, here is my theory:

The Japanese 360 game has some programmed-in slowdown and some that is not programmed in, but rather a result of the 360 being overwhelmed by the on-screen action. (AKA, unintended slowdown) Considering that the 360 has been plagued by heating-related failures, it is quite possible that releasing a game which knowingly and repeatedly bogs down the system is against some coding practices set forth by Microsoft's NA branch. As such, Cave found a way to restructure the code in a way that wouldn't bog down the system for the US release. Unfortunately, this restructuring of the code also put less demands on the arcade-mode's emulation, so it failed to reproduce the slowdown that was on the original PCB.

Furthermore, descriptions of the patch changes suggest that all of the added-in slowdown was programmed in because they probably were not allowed to revert to the Japanese codebase due to worries about overheating.

Just a theory, but it fits all of the seemingly contradictory public statements. I know it's not going to change the minds of any haters, but I think understanding a situation makes it easier to at least empathize with the people who are trying to make the right choices and bring us an enjoyable game.
Nah, I don't buy that. I think the only reason for the initial lack of slowdown was due to a change in rendering engine for the US/EU releases. They never admitted this, but they did specifically state that the US/EU releases used a new graphics engine that was different from the one used in the original Japanese release.
Last edited by bcass on Tue Mar 15, 2011 5:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: (SOUNDS LIKE) No more shmups from Aksys :/

Post by dieKatze88 »

I can honestly say I'm ok with this. The contents of the box alone are a huge embarrassment and Aksys should feel awful for attempting to market the game that way.

That didn't stop me from supporting the genre, and Aksys, and buying the LE. I have it. Despite the fact that I don't own a US360 so I can't actually PLAY the US release, I've had limited playtime using my brother's Xbox 360. I still have the faceplate, despite no longer owning an Xbox 360 that it fits onto. I did my part, despite the fact that this game is an awful port in comparison to the Japanese release.

I have no problem with verbally punishing Aksys for doing this, when we want to stop being treated like children we need to make that clear, if we FAIL to make that clear than the fact that we are TREATED like children is entirely our fault. If Aksys wants to disrespect their potential customers in the ways they did with this game, than go ahead and let them. Vote with your wallets, but don't be surprised if that means we don't get what we want in the future. I play a ton of Otomedius and despite the fact that I already have a Japanese 360, and will have the Japanese version of Otomedius X at some point in the next month or so (Whenever we get around to it due to the earthquake, is Konami's official response) I will still buy the US release because I hope at some point in the future I won't have to spend twice as much to play the games I want to play, and the only way we're going to get to that point is by showing these companies that we are here and we do want your games, and then after those games are out providing the criticism that these companies need to treat these games with the integrity and respect that we want them to be treated with. Complaining that Deathsmiles NA has speed problems IS a good thing for that reason alone, because it makes Aksys more likely to patch it, and less likely to screw up any future games.

All that being said, the game didn't meet their sales expectations, why is that a shocker? Did you READ that box? If I didn't know what game it was before I saw it I would have put that game back on the shelf too.
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burgerkingdiamond
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Re: (SOUNDS LIKE) No more shmups from Aksys :/

Post by burgerkingdiamond »

What's your definition of "many". Obiously there are those on this forum that pay exorbitant CAVE PCB prices, and thats good for them (I get queasy past the $200 mark), but I don't think it's a large percentage. As far as JAP importers, well yeah that's a more significant number.

So let's put it this way. If you don't have a DS PCB or a JAP 360 and you're in NA, you should have picked it up.
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1CCs : Donpachi (PCB - 1st loop) Dodonpachi (PCB - 1st loop) Battle Bakraid (PCB) Armed Police Batrider (PCB) Mushihimesama Futari 1.5 (360 - Original) Mushihimesama Futari BL (PCB - Original)
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Re: (SOUNDS LIKE) No more shmups from Aksys :/

Post by burgerkingdiamond »

dieKatze88 wrote:I can honestly say I'm ok with this. The contents of the box alone are a huge embarrassment and Aksys should feel awful for attempting to market the game that way.

That didn't stop me from supporting the genre, and Aksys, and buying the LE. I have it. Despite the fact that I don't own a US360 so I can't actually PLAY the US release, I've had limited playtime using my brother's Xbox 360. I still have the faceplate, despite no longer owning an Xbox 360 that it fits onto. I did my part, despite the fact that this game is an awful port in comparison to the Japanese release.

I have no problem with verbally punishing Aksys for doing this, when we want to stop being treated like children we need to make that clear, if we FAIL to make that clear than the fact that we are TREATED like children is entirely our fault. If Aksys wants to disrespect their potential customers in the ways they did with this game, than go ahead and let them. Vote with your wallets, but don't be surprised if that means we don't get what we want in the future. I play a ton of Otomedius and despite the fact that I already have a Japanese 360, and will have the Japanese version of Otomedius X at some point in the next month or so (Whenever we get around to it due to the earthquake, is Konami's official response) I will still buy the US release because I hope at some point in the future I won't have to spend twice as much to play the games I want to play, and the only way we're going to get to that point is by showing these companies that we are here and we do want your games, and then after those games are out providing the criticism that these companies need to treat these games with the integrity and respect that we want them to be treated with. Complaining that Deathsmiles NA has speed problems IS a good thing for that reason alone, because it makes Aksys more likely to patch it, and less likely to screw up any future games.

All that being said, the game didn't meet their sales expectations, why is that a shocker? Did you READ that box? If I didn't know what game it was before I saw it I would have put that game back on the shelf too.
I need to go home and read the box because I have no idea what you're talking about. But I do doubt that they intended to pick up any sales from random store browsers. And the little girls with tits on the front... Thats the whole art direction of the game. I don't think that there is anything wrong with the cover. Does it need to be taken that seriously?
Let's Ass Kick Together!
1CCs : Donpachi (PCB - 1st loop) Dodonpachi (PCB - 1st loop) Battle Bakraid (PCB) Armed Police Batrider (PCB) Mushihimesama Futari 1.5 (360 - Original) Mushihimesama Futari BL (PCB - Original)
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MR_Soren
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Re: (SOUNDS LIKE) No more shmups from Aksys :/

Post by MR_Soren »

bcass wrote:
MR_Soren wrote:Regarding the modifications, here is my theory:

The Japanese 360 game has some programmed-in slowdown and some that is not programmed in, but rather a result of the 360 being overwhelmed by the on-screen action. (AKA, unintended slowdown) Considering that the 360 has been plagued by heating-related failures, it is quite possible that releasing a game which knowingly and repeatedly bogs down the system is against some coding practices set forth by Microsoft's NA branch. As such, Cave found a way to restructure the code in a way that wouldn't bog down the system for the US release. Unfortunately, this restructuring of the code also put less demands on the arcade-mode's emulation, so it failed to reproduce the slowdown that was on the original PCB.

Furthermore, descriptions of the patch changes suggest that all of the added-in slowdown was programmed in because they probably were not allowed to revert to the Japanese codebase due to worries about overheating.

Just a theory, but it fits all of the seemingly contradictory public statements. I know it's not going to change the minds of any haters, but I think understanding a situation makes it easier to at least empathize with the people who are trying to make the right choices and bring us an enjoyable game.
Nah, I don't buy that. I think the only reason for the initial lack of slowdown was due to a change in rendering engine for the US/EU releases. They never admitted this, but they did specifically state that the US/EU releases used a new graphics engine that was different from the one used in the original Japanese release.
Well, aside from the motivation, that still fits with my post and doesn't change the result. I do recall them saying their 360 games are using a graphics library developed by a third party, so you are quite possibly right. It makes sense that that they would want to use the newest version of that library for each release as minor bugfixes and other tweaks are likely rolled in with the performance improvements.

I guess the question then would be if the patched NA game uses an older version of the graphics library or if they just went through and manually coded in slowdown in a variety of places. I can say the game never graphically glitched on me until after the patch, so perhaps they did just use an older version of the library. As a programmer, changes that result in less reliable and less efficient code being used make me sad. :(

burgerkingdiamond wrote:I need to go home and read the box because I have no idea what you're talking about. ... I don't think that there is anything wrong with the cover.
I think it's the quote on the back that is the big turn-off. Something like, "Death smiles at everyone. Lolis smile back."

That probably made some people put the box down.
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