Pink Sweets & Muchi Muchi Pork bundle - Xbox 360!!!!!

[Sumez]

I get your point, but personally I don't buy these games for "the arcade feeling". I buy them for the great gameplay.

[8 1/2]

Or maybe I was sending them an email to emphasize that this is definitely something the community would like to see, you pompous ass. The product's out, it'd be easy to rest on their laurels, but it's gonna be harder if people are actually requesting a patch. Don't act like you've done everything in life without somebody occasionally asking you to do it. That's horseshit.

Like, I'm sure they totally planned to have Guwange support 4:3, which is totally why they included it the game at release.

Rest on their laurels? You really understand NOTHING about how games are made do you? It's like you imagine there's this strike team of programmers there ready to take on these tasks, but they just need YOU to give them that push. I promise you that all Cave staff is full speed ahead trying to get Akai Katana and their adventure game out the door. Taking even a single programmer off a project to go back and fix something that's already shipped is a HUGE blow to a any developer. I worked for a company that's just about the size of Cave, about 55 employees, and I promise you every second of programmer time is just desperately valuable.

Fixing the screen issue in Guwange was probably a huge pain in the ass for them, but they did it out of love for their players. But adjusting the slowdown or adding back in enemies is no joke. It's WAY more work than simply adding a new screen mode. It would require a whole new testing period, ramping back up QA, then going back through MS submissions. Not to mention all the new unforeseen bugs that would likely create. All of that time is huge money.

I'm not trying to speak from a position of arrogance, simply of experience. When I was working on Zombie Apocalypse I begged and begged to get separate leaderboards for each stage, so players could challenge each one individually, but it came down to simple programmer time and the idea never came to be. I promise you that every one of your complaints and/or suggestions was talked about and probably fought about at Cave internally, but they had to move forward and get the product out the door so they could meet the deadlines on their future products.

It's just so arrogant to think that some programmer accidentally deleted those enemies from some line of code, and then, whoops, no one noticed. No. No. No. I bet there's a LONG story behind that, and I'd bet further they likely spent some considerable time trying to fix it, but just ran into too many issues, and it wasn't game-breaking so they moved on. EOJ, I love his stuff, but he tends to be a bit dramatic. Yes, it may impact score on some small level, but unless you're in heated competition for the #1 spot in the world I'm at a loss as to what a few thousand, even a few million, points really is making in most player's games. The real elephant in the room with that argument anyway is that no one lumps the scores from ports and arcade pcbs together on ANY list. Did anyone buy MMP on the 360 to become the Billy Mitchell of the Lard Meter? Please.

Akai Katana is due out in May. That means they're likely pushing to get to gold master by early April, maybe even sooner. Even that's cutting it close. Think about that for a second before you start planning your next email. They have maybe 4 to 6 weeks of pure crunch time right now to get their next title out the door, and you want them to jeopardize that to go take your requests?

[Captain Cat]

I'll fix it! I'm a master programmer. I can program and haxx anything to do anything.

OK, not really. Haven't played these fine games yet. Postal service - hurry up please.

[cul]

I couldn't stop thinking about this while reading some posts in this thread:



It's a video game, it works, pretty nicely, get a freaking life already.

[bcass]

This is part of why I'm usually pretty positive about these releases; I DO know what goes into this sort of thing, and how bloody difficult and frustrating it can be to put all this together.

So do I. I'm a developer (business applications, not games, although I have done a bit of games programming in C++ and C#), and I would never release any game in the state that Cave frequently do.

Sure, the games might be missing a couple of things, but really, they're SMALL things.

Yep, small and often really easily rectified. So trivial that it almost seems obstinate on Cave's part that they keep tripping-up with silly design errors and oversights. Cave make great games, but their 360 devs either need a good kick up the arse or a couple of extra weeks to fine-tune stuff. They need to hire some testers too. I don't know why they don't just hire the top Japanese scorers on a contract basis to test for any oversights.

[Zeron]

Well if CAVE backs down its Mihara to the rescue.

[Special World]

Well, dude, it's basically like this:

Cave can choose to ignore my email. They don't have to patch the game, and they might not have the time, but maybe they'll consider it once Akai Katana is out if they have a little grace period. You don't need to get hung up on this, it's hypothetical. Lord knows they've been churning out games at an alarming rate; I doubt that they have any time at all. Maybe Instant Brain will be a runaway best-seller, and they'll have some extra revenue that'll allow them to set aside some people to patch MMP/PS.

For Zombie Apocalypse, would you really be upset if you got email from a fan which amounted to "Hey, I was wondering if you could consider patching [x] into the game? If not, that's cool: I really love your games and I hope you guys keep up the good work"?

I hold Cave to a high standard of quality because I feel they're DESERVING of it. I can't think of any company that consistently has such high quality releases, and Cave has shown that they are willing to occasionally do these patches. Their willingness to listen to the community is one of the things that sets them above a lot of devs, and I'd hate for them to lose that special edge.

My email would be requesting a patch, yes. But even if it's not feasible for them to patch the game, my email is still a token of support for a fantastic game company.

Anyways, no need for me to clutter up the topic anymore. Feel free to respond if I've still gotten everything completely wrong, but I won't likely write anything more on this topic.

[bcass]

Well if CAVE backs down its Mihara to the rescue.

Mihara would never let Cave's ports out the door in the state that Cave do. To be honest, I think Cave are absolutely the worst people to be porting their own games. They prove it time and time again. It's a crying shame that ARIKA aren't on board this gen. Still, even M2 and 5pb do better jobs.

Anyway, to all you naysayers - screw you. Every time someone posts in this thread moaning about people who have concerns with port quality, I'm going send another email to Cave.

Anyways, no need for me to clutter up the topic anymore. Feel free to respond if I've still gotten everything completely wrong, but I won't likely write anything more on this topic.

Ignore anyone trying to bully you into a particular frame of mind. Make your own mind up and act accordingly. Apathy and inaction never changed anything. If you feel passionately about something then get off your ass and do something about it.

[njiska]

A bunch of well written comments about the business

You make a lot of good points, but history proves the folly of your argument. Yes they're probably in crunch time right now, yes they probably don't have programmers to spare and yes Akai Katana is most likely their primary focus. But Akai will be gold in at most two months. Cave will have some room to work on other projects after that and patches aren't out of the question. Just look at the history of Cave releases so far; nearly all of them have received at least one post release patch. Just recently, while finishing up DFK BL and presumably working on Akai Katana Shin they managed to find time to patch DFK, Guwange and Deathsmiles NA and work on a patch for DFK BL. Two of those patches were almost entirely due to fan complaints. They also did a lot of work after DS IIx release to fix problems.

Cave has made it very clear up to this point that they value fan feedback. That doesn't mean they will ever do anything about it, but they certainly aren't angry to hear the problems the community is having. There is no harm in asking and there's no telling what happens further down the line.

[Captain Cat]

I have a feeling that somebody around here need a big *HUG*.

Cheer up lads. It will work out in the end.

[-Bridget-]

This is part of why I'm usually pretty positive about these releases; I DO know what goes into this sort of thing, and how bloody difficult and frustrating it can be to put all this together.

So do I. I'm a developer (business applications, not games, although I have done a bit of games programming in C++ and C#), and I would never release any game in the state that Cave frequently do.

Sure, the games might be missing a couple of things, but really, they're SMALL things.

Yep, small and often really easily rectified. So trivial that it almost seems obstinate on Cave's part that they keep tripping-up with silly design errors and oversights. Cave make great games, but their 360 devs either need a good kick up the arse or a couple of extra weeks to fine-tune stuff. They need to hire some testers too. I don't know why they don't just hire the top Japanese scorers on a contract basis to test for any oversights.

...."in the state that they frequently do". ...... really?

I mean..... really?

I.... honestly cannot think of any real problems with.... well, ANY of these ports (that arent DOJ of course). And yes, I have ALL of them. I play them to death.

And no, it's not often "easily rectified". As 8 1/2 says, it really just doesnt work that way. Something as "easy to fix" as missing enemies and whatnot often can be a monstrous pain in the ass to fix, particularly when you've got a program as big and complicated as this, and can take ALOT of time to do. As had been said up above, Cave DOES NOT have the time to do that right now. Frankly, I'm surprised to hear that their next game is coming out as soon as it is.... that's gotta be pretty harsh on them, really. I woulda expected that to be AT LEAST 2 months later than it is.



I wont argue the point any further though, cause I'm thinking nobody's gonna listen anyway. Also, I'm more arguementive right now only because i haevnt had any caffiene yet.... so I apologize if I'm a bit snappy here....

[Sapz]

In a startling display of thread-derailing, how is PS 1.01 treating you guys? If there was any discussion about the actual game around, I guess I must have missed it.

[bcass]

"in the state that they frequently do". ...... really?

I mean..... really?

Absolutely, although I'm not strictly referring to things like slowdown accuracy, I'm also referring to retarded design decisions, of which there have been a good number now accross all of their ports.

I.... honestly cannot think of any real problems with.... well, ANY of these ports (that arent DOJ of course). And yes, I have ALL of them. I play them to death.

Ignorance is bliss, I'm sure. Those of us who are more discerning will continue to let Cave know about bad design decisions and bugs until they start getting it right.

And no, it's not often "easily rectified".

Actually, it is. You see, if you get these things right *before* you release a game, you don't have the nightmare of patching afterwards. It's all about due care and attention. It's not especially respectful to their tiny fanbase that they keep getting things wrong.

Frankly, I'm surprised to hear that their next game is coming out as soon as it is....

And therein lies the main problem here. They're rushing all these ports. They need a little more care and attention taken on them, then everyone would be happy. ARIKA showed how it's done. They got their ports right first time, every time. Seriously, Cave have rushed out 8 360 ports in less than 24 months (excluding iOS ports).

[Anesthetize]

In a startling display of thread-derailing, how is PS 1.01 treating you guys? If there was any discussion about the actual game around, I guess I must have missed it.

I've mostly been playing MMP so far, but I did play a few PS 1.01 credits yesterday afternoon. I think it's still a little above my level difficulty-wise, but that certainly won't stop me from enjoying it immensely. Which character are you mostly playing? I still haven't tried them all yet.

[Sapz]

It's definitely a really tough game. My favourite so far is Shasta - she's fast, powerful and precise, and a cool feature about her is that her lasers seem to make her immune to destructable bullets. Pretty good for scoring, too. I'd use Lace, but the delay between shots irks me a little.

As far as progress goes, you really have to play each stage a few times at least to grasp how to deal with them, the midbosses and the bosses. I've reached stage 5 once so far, and from what I've seen in practice mode it'll be a wall for a while. I think this is the part of the game where you're supposed to start frequently using Rose Crackers. The fifth boss in particular is kicking my ass.

[flux]

I.... honestly cannot think of any real problems with.... well, ANY of these ports (that arent DOJ of course). And yes, I have ALL of them. I play them to death.

Ignorance is bliss, I'm sure. Those of us who are more discerning will continue to let Cave know about bad design decisions and bugs until they start getting it right.

You know the the solution is for people complaining about it not being 100% PCB accurate? Just go get the PCB. If accuracy is that important, you should be fine with spending the money.

Actually, it is. You see, if you get these things right *before* you release a game, you don't have the nightmare of patching afterwards. It's all about due care and attention. It's not especially respectful to their tiny fanbase that they keep getting things wrong.

As yet another person who works in development (non-game) it is not that easy. It's not like if you catch it before the release you can just flip a switch and fix it. There are piles of unforeseen bugs and potential problems that can cause huge headaches. I'm guessing Cave has very tight schedules and small staffs, so taking time to catch and fix bugs that are a result of a fix to a relatively small problem is probably not realistic for them.

For Zombie Apocalypse, would you really be upset if you got email from a fan which amounted to "Hey, I was wondering if you could consider patching [x] into the game? If not, that's cool: I really love your games and I hope you guys keep up the good work"?

I feel like the way you presented your email initially is at least partially what got some people riled up. From your first post it seemed like you were basically going to send them an email telling them how to make a game by sending a list of things that "needed to be fixed." Sending an email letting them know what you would have liked to have seen or what features that seem to be desired for future releases is probably a good idea. They probably value what the fans have to say as long as they're nice about it.

-----------

Anyway, I had basically no knowledge of how MMP/PS worked before getting this last Friday. I'm liking both, but the lasers that shoot you with almost no warning in Pink Sweets is kind of annoying. I feel like Cave does a pretty great job in the arrange modes. I prefer the arrange modes in both games over the arcade mode. I've felt like this for the past few releases, as well. Maybe the arcade designers need to work with the Arrange team?

[Jeneki]

I use my consoles and games in convention game rooms quite a bit. A proper attract mode is very essential to show people what kind of game is in the console. No one is going to try a game just sitting at a static title screen.

"Oh, one of those games like Galaga, I'll try this" is always preferable to "What's this? No idea, whatever."

[bcass]

You know the the solution is for people complaining about it not being 100% PCB accurate? Just go get the PCB. If accuracy is that important, you should be fine with spending the money.

Nonsense. Cost isn't the issue here. Pride in the quality of your own product should be.

As yet another person who works in development (non-game) it is not that easy. It's not like if you catch it before the release you can just flip a switch and fix it. There are piles of unforeseen bugs and potential problems that can cause huge headaches. I'm guessing Cave has very tight schedules and small staffs, so taking time to catch and fix bugs that are a result of a fix to a relatively small problem is probably not realistic for them.

Again, these issues are only happening because they're rushing the products out. It's all about due care and attention. ARIKA know how to do it perfectly, M2 and 5pb do it better than Cave. Cave make the worst Cave ports. End of story. It's great we're getting all these ports, but it's as plain as daylight that they're mostly rush jobs. They've already gushed about how it only takes them 3 days to do it.

[Icarus]

I have to agree, it should be quality taking precedence over quantity. I personally would have been quite happy to wait a few more months for MMP!/PS, if it meant that the game was tidied up and all major bugs and issues (and there are quite a few at the moment) squashed first time, rather than later in a big patch.
You would have thought that Cave would have taken M2's work on Mushihimesama Futari and used it as a standardised template for all future disc and XBLA ports. Instead, they seem to be all over the place when it comes to menu structure, configurable options, and gameplay accuracy, and Akai Katana Shin looks to be continuing the trend.

[-Bridget-]

I.... honestly cannot think of any real problems with.... well, ANY of these ports (that arent DOJ of course). And yes, I have ALL of them. I play them to death.

Ignorance is bliss, I'm sure. Those of us who are more discerning will continue to let Cave know about bad design decisions and bugs until they start getting it right.

You know the the solution is for people complaining about it not being 100% PCB accurate? Just go get the PCB. If accuracy is that important, you should be fine with spending the money.

Actually, it is. You see, if you get these things right *before* you release a game, you don't have the nightmare of patching afterwards. It's all about due care and attention. It's not especially respectful to their tiny fanbase that they keep getting things wrong.

As yet another person who works in development (non-game) it is not that easy. It's not like if you catch it before the release you can just flip a switch and fix it. There are piles of unforeseen bugs and potential problems that can cause huge headaches. I'm guessing Cave has very tight schedules and small staffs, so taking time to catch and fix bugs that are a result of a fix to a relatively small problem is probably not realistic for them.

Thank you, yes, very well put, for both points. Surely better than me trying to phrase all this and not making any sense.

And I very strongly agree with what you said about the PCB thing. I for one dont need these games to be absolutely 100% super bloody perfect as compared to the PCB. I know full well that porting these and making them PERFECT ports is not at all easy. This, though, is why we have seperate scoreboards, and such as that. But for those that DO want it perfect, yes, "just buy the PCB" is what I'd say. Because chances are, you'll NEVER see a port release that is totally freaking absolutely bloody perfect. Wether the scanlines are going the wrong direction, or enemy # 127 is 3 pixels to the left of where it should be, there's GOING to be small flaws and changes. Often, it seems that this has to do more with slowdown, and where/when/how often it happens, more than any other issue. NOT a big deal. But if it is to you, buy the bloody board.

Yet, the complaints will keep going, I know. But expecting a developer, ANY developer, to get everything right "before release" all the time is both incredibly unlikely, and absurd. Anytime people say something like that, it just proves how little they know about how the whole process works. And no, "just get some good testers" isnt a helpful statement either. Test these all you want, stuff WILL still get by, or stuff gets found, but the devs dont have TIME to deal with all of it and must prioritize.... PARTICULARLY when they're working on other projects. Even if all these bugs get tested and reported, they will NOT all get fixed all at once; some wont get fixed at all, due to time constraints and higher priorities for other problems that need dealing with. This is one of the reasons why so many games HAVE bugs.

Again, these issues are only happening because they're rushing the products out. It's all about due care and attention. ARIKA know how to do it perfectly, M2 and 5pb do it better than Cave. Cave make the worst Cave ports. End of story. It's great we're getting all these ports, but it's as plain as daylight that they're mostly rush jobs. They've already gushed about how it only takes them 3 days to do it.

Dont get me wrong, I'm just as much against the idea of rushing a project as you are. But we dont work for Cave, now do we? We dont know fully what their situation is. WHY are they rushing to get the next game out? How can we know? How long has that port BEEN in development? What is their financial status, and the state of the market and such that they have to directly deal with? What OTHER projects might they be working on now (unannounced) that they need to prioritize over this next port? And what about other, non-development reasons, business reasons, that might directly impact things like this?

Believe me, a company like Cave HAS THEIR REASONS. Dont assume that there ARENT any simply because YOU dont know what they are. Arika, 5pb, and the others are ENTIRELY DIFFERENT COMPANIES. They do things differently, they have different methods, different numbers of employees, different everything.

And in this industry, often, even the best developers are FORCED to do things like rush a project even if they REALLY dont want to. It's something that happens very often indeed, generally as a result of outside pressure from all sorts of possible sources.


It amazes me how readily people will WHINE about stuff like this. I remember when NONE of these were being ported, and when it looked like they never WOULD be ported. Mushi, Galuda, Ibara, and DOJ came out for the PS2.... and then it stopped. It just STOPPED. For quite awhile. Cave did not HAVE to port ANY of these other games. Be bloody grateful that they decided to port them AT ALL, and enjoy the games for what they are, instead of whining about bloody scanlines and similar issues.

I have to agree, it should be quality taking precedence over quantity. I personally would have been quite happy to wait a few more months for MMP!/PS, if it meant that the game was tidied up and all major bugs and issues (and there are quite a few at the moment) squashed first time, rather than later in a big patch.
You would have thought that Cave would have taken M2's work on Mushihimesama Futari and used it as a standardised template for all future disc and XBLA ports. Instead, they seem to be all over the place when it comes to menu structure, configurable options, and gameplay accuracy, and Akai Katana Shin looks to be continuing the trend.

Yes, I will agree with this, quality is always more important than quantity. But the simple fact is: This is the product we got. We can either enjoy it, or whine about it. I'm not trying to be mean here, but really, I'm just glad this exists AT ALL. I remember when it looked like we were NEVER going to get ports of games like Futari or Ketsui. Yet here they are, those of us who CANT access the PCBs in any way can actually enjoy these games. Cave didnt have to do this at all. And heck, they COULD have done even LESS with these ports and gotten full away with it.

Just be glad these are even here, is all I'm saying.

[brentsg]

Cave just needs to get their ports into the 90% accuracy range, eliminate all the stupid little bugs and annoyances, and spend the rest of their resources making new arcade games.

[bcass]

you'll NEVER see a port release that is totally freaking absolutely bloody perfect.

ARIKA managed it with all their ports, first time, without any patches.

Wether the scanlines are going the wrong direction, or enemy # 127 is 3 pixels to the left of where it should be, there's GOING to be small flaws and changes.

You're just showing your ignorance now. Nobody has ever complained about any of those things.

expecting a developer, ANY developer, to get everything right "before release" all the time is both incredibly unlikely, and absurd. Anytime people say something like that, it just proves how little they know about how the whole process works.

Which part of "ARIKA managed it with all their ports, first time, every time, without any patches" do you not understand? It's possible and attainable. The only reason it doesn't happen is because Cave are rushing the ports out.

And no, "just get some good testers" isnt a helpful statement either.

Actually, it's an excellent statement to make. Chances are, the top players know more about Cave games than Cave do. Who better to spend a few hours helping iron-out the bugs before release.

Test these all you want, stuff WILL still get by, or stuff gets found, but the devs dont have TIME to deal with all of it and must prioritize.

Funny how that was never a problem for ARIKA isn't it?

Dont get me wrong, I'm just as much against the idea of rushing a project as you are. But we dont work for Cave, now do we? We dont know fully what their situation is.

Actually, we do, they already told us - it takes them 3 days to do a port.

Be bloody grateful that they decided to port them AT ALL, and enjoy the games for what they are, instead of whining about bloody scanlines and similar issues.

No. You can be grateful for substandard products, but when my money is involved, I have every right to complain. Irrespective of what your opinion is.

[skink]

heavy flow day for bcass. What a whiny bitch.

[bcass]

Yeah, fuck you too.

[KNTain]

Heaven fuckin' forbid some people want a reasonably accurate port and are a bit disappointed.

I like knowing that all the times I run into a wall in these games it's because of the developer's design and not someone else's oversight. The former walls are normally more fun to scale over.

[drauch]

This is gettin' sassy up here. Still waiting on my pork

[BIL]

I'm grateful these ports even exist, but considering games can be patched this generation, it's not out of line to request it. Cave have a track record of serviceable but shoddy ports now, and we've seen ports with release issues like RFA and DOJBLEX drastically improve thanks to patches.

I'm grateful Ibara's PS2 port exists too, particularly since I don't care for world-class Yagawa play enough to mind its lack of most PCB slowdown. Doesn't mean I don't consider it a disappointingly flawed port compared to Arika's work.

tldr version for people busting out that fresh "u mad" card: XFD CAVE sucks shit, lol suck it cavefags.

[8 1/2]

You make a lot of good points, but history proves the folly of your argument.

Hardly disproves anything. Let's look at the previous patches.

Guwange screen fix: Does not impact gameplay code. Probably only needs one programmer and a few hours. Updating the UI was probably the biggest chore. But let's also consider MMP/PS seem to share the same code, so a fix for Guwange was also a fix for their upcoming title. Big win, little work.

Deathsmiles NA: Just revert the code to the original Japanese release. It's not like this is a whole new version. They simply went and rolled it back to the original Japanese release. People keep writing that they "adjusted it" but that's just not the case. It's just a code swap, not some gameplay programmer trying to match up slowdown again.

DFK: This one is probably the most significant, but again, it doesn't impact the nuts and bolts of a stage to mess with the scoring system. This is likely just one guy implementing the new numbers. It does require some additional testing, but no "A" bugs are likely to be created by this.

Again, going back to adjust slowdown in MMP is not at all the same as what they did with DS. Deathsmiles already had the original release to fall back on, and they simply swapped that out for the much-hated NA release. It's not a total "back to work" move for a bunch of people. Replacing those enemies in MMP or adjusting the slowdown would be just that. It would be like starting up production again, and would involve a ton of work for a good number of people. If Cave does it, god bless them, they are saints.

I promise not to keep at this topic, but can we least stop assuming we know the cost of these moves? Nothing on that list is trivial nor comparable to previous patches.

And, as was said, to the authors of any emails, please make it clear that your requests are your own and not that of "the community" or "the forum". I don't want to be associated in any way with such selfishness.

[chempop]

Where are the Moderators? Please split into "Cave port accuracy" thread, so people can actually post about MMP/PS.

Pink Sweets 1.01 is awesome but I'm still having a bit of trouble NOT bursting the Rose Crackers after chargin up my shield. The way to cancel it (thus keeping rank in control) is by activating speed adjust once it is charged, kinda sneaky, now I know why people really wanted button config mapping options in Pink Sweets.
Got to stage 4 a few times, it's kicking my ass though. I'm using Kasuni w/wide shot. Not getting the Rose Hips in the first couple stages definitely makes rank easier.

[bcass]

Guwange screen fix: Does not impact gameplay code. Probably only needs one programmer and a few hours. Updating the UI was probably the biggest chore. But let's also consider MMP/PS seem to share the same code, so a fix for Guwange was also a fix for their upcoming title. Big win, little work.

The Wide mode option in Guwange does not function in the same way as the Wide Mode option in MMP/PS. So your assumptions are complete conjecture (and most likely wrong).

Deathsmiles NA: Just revert the code to the original Japanese release. It's not like this is a whole new version. They simply went and rolled it back to the original Japanese release. People keep writing that they "adjusted it" but that's just not the case. It's just a code swap, not some gameplay programmer trying to match up slowdown again.

Given that they already admitted that they used a completely different rendering engine for the US/EU versions (compared to the JPN version), I'm not sure you're right on that one either.

I promise not to keep at this topic, but can we least stop assuming we know the cost of these moves?

Even though you have just done exactly that - assume. You know no better than anyone else.

And, as was said, to the authors of any emails, please make it clear that your requests are your own and not that of "the community" or "the forum". I don't want to be associated in any way with such selfishness.

Don't be such a drama queen. People are asking (politely) that things be fixed, not calling for blood.