Joystick Advice

[Shogun]

A while back I bought an HRAP3 from Amazon because it was hugely on sale primarily for shmups. Its my first joystick and I really like it. The base has a great weight and enough area to rest your hands on it. The buttons are responsive enough but there is room for improvement. Right now I'm using it primarily on the PC with Mame and the PS3 but to be honest its rarely if ever hooked up to the PS3.

My main gripes are the fact its usb which means I can't use it on my PS2/Dreamcast/SNES which are my other primary systems. This is driving me crazy actually but I came late to the game and now I don't see HRAP2 sticks for sale anywhere. The second gripe is the responsiveness of the stick itself. It requires quite a bit of travel before it registers the click making precise movements a bit more difficult. I need something that is a bit tighter that requires less travel to register movement and also is a bit stiffer maybe. From what all I've read here the Seimitsu LS32-01 seems to fit this role perfectly. However with the HRAP3 I've shot myself in the foot because I've read the LS32-01 won't mount without some serious modification and then theres the whole common ground problem. So it seems modding my HRAP3 to fit my needs is out of the question otherwise this is the path I would have taken.

So here comes the question. I've been looking around at buying sticks and I can't rationalize paying $100+ for a stick just to gut it and put what I want in it at the cost of another $40 - $60. So for using an existing stick to put a Seimitsu in it the Mayflash for $30 appears to be the only option. The other path would be to build it from the ground up which I can't decide if I should do or not. I have only a circular saw but am comfortable with soldering.

I am confused as to what path to take. Which way is cheaper...converters seem expensive and usually cost about $20 a piece. I don't want any lag in there so sourcing all of the lagless converters sounds like a bit of an exercise. I would need to get one for the Dreamcast and the SNES. I already have PSX to USB but I don't know if its lagless so I might have to get that as well. Or is it better to take the PCBs out of my spare controllers and wire it up like that? That sounds ideal but my knowledge in combining and wiring multiple PCBs is not so good.

So any advice on modifying my HRAP3, modifying a different stick, or building one from the ground up using converters or multiple PCBs would be appreciated.

[StarCreator]

If you can get a control panel from a HRAP 3 SA, you can actually mount an LS-32 to that one properly. A friend recently ran into the same problem and wound up finding the SA control panel online.

While the Mayflash PCB would be a pretty easy way to get PS2 output, I'm not sure I would count on the PCB's durability. The case also leaves a lot to be desired - it's serviceable but nothing to write home about.

Do the MC Cthulhu PCBs support PS2? If so, that's definitely the way to go.

[Shogun]

If you can get a control panel from a HRAP 3 SA, you can actually mount an LS-32 to that one properly. A friend recently ran into the same problem and wound up finding the SA control panel online.

While the Mayflash PCB would be a pretty easy way to get PS2 output, I'm not sure I would count on the PCB's durability. The case also leaves a lot to be desired - it's serviceable but nothing to write home about.

Do the MC Cthulhu PCBs support PS2? If so, that's definitely the way to go.

So you are saying to swap the HRAP3:




With the top from the HRAP2:




Thats a good idea but do people actually get rid of their control panels? I don't think I've ever seen one for sale.

[burgerkingdiamond]

If you can get a control panel from a HRAP 3 SA, you can actually mount an LS-32 to that one properly. A friend recently ran into the same problem and wound up finding the SA control panel online.

While the Mayflash PCB would be a pretty easy way to get PS2 output, I'm not sure I would count on the PCB's durability. The case also leaves a lot to be desired - it's serviceable but nothing to write home about.

Do the MC Cthulhu PCBs support PS2? If so, that's definitely the way to go.

Yes they do. I've wired one up.

[StarCreator]

I actually said the HRAP 3 SA, not the HRAP 2 (I'm not entirely sure the HRAP 2's panel is compatible). The HRAP 3 SA, despite coming with a full Sanwa loadout, actually sported a mounting plate that could support an LS-32, given you had the correct Seimitsu plate to attach to it. In my friend's case, apparently the owner of the HRAP 3 SA had swapped his panel for a plexiglass dealie or something and had no use of the stock plate.

[Shogun]

Ok so I want this one then:




I guess I should post a WTB here and elsewhere because the chances of finding one on ebay are probably slim to none. That'd be great if I could find the panel then I could just hook it up with the Seimitsu parts and away I go. Looks like the SA is also common ground as well.

[Barrakketh]

If you're not having luck with a replacement panel, you might want to keep an eye on this thread on SRK. The guy is making steel replacement panels for the MadCatz TE sticks and has plans for a HRAP version.

Arthong makes plexi panels (HRAP version here), but I've e-mailed him just to make sure that there wouldn't be any issues with mounting a Seimitsu stick on it. It should be fine with the RE mounting plate.

As for the HRAP3...well, your button issue is because they are (IIRC) generic/knockoffs. Actual Sanwa buttons (which comes on the -SA models) are extremely sensitive, but the HRAP only comes with the Sanwa JLF. You might want to open the stick and check whether the stick is using a wiring hardness or not, because Hori likes to use the PCB-less sticks which are either soldered or use quick-disconnects to the individual microswitches.

The HRAP 3 SA, despite coming with a full Sanwa loadout, actually sported a mounting plate that could support an LS-32, given you had the correct Seimitsu plate to attach to it.

You're probably thinking of the Seimitsu SS plate. Seimitsu sticks have shorter shafts, so the SS plate has two "wings" that stick out on each side to let you attach it to a mount intended for a JLF. The rest of the plate curves inward towards the panel to raise the shaft to its proper height.

[Shogun]

Those are awesome thanks for posting that. The second link in particular was filled with great info. So you'd get a new panel and a JLF mounting plate which I'm guessing would work with an LS 32-01 as well. Get some new buttons and then that problem would be taken care of.

However there is still the issue of compatibility and a common ground for multi-system compatibility. I'm still trying to figure out how to handle this part. I'll keep reading around and see how it is done. I need to familiarize myself a bit more with the basics of what a common ground is and how everything is set up in the HRAP3 to see if I should or can gut it.

[Barrakketh]

Those are awesome thanks for posting that. The second link in particular was filled with great info. So you'd get a new panel and a JLF mounting plate which I'm guessing would work with an LS 32-01 as well.

No, the JLF mounting plate would only be if you were using a JLF taken from the HRAP3. The main problem is that it attaches directly to the metal plate instead of the normal mounting plate, and doesn't come with the hex nuts needed to attach the stick to a mounting plate if you ordered one.

However there is still the issue of compatibility and a common ground for multi-system compatibility. I'm still trying to figure out how to handle this part. I'll keep reading around and see how it is done. I need to familiarize myself a bit more with the basics of what a common ground is and how everything is set up in the HRAP3 to see if I should or can gut it.

In short: there is no practical or cost-effective way to make a non-common ground PCB common ground. If you were simply dual-modding (For PS3/PC and X360 use) the solution would be to replace the HRAP PCB with a ChimpSMD and go from there. However, that does still use USB for its output so that wouldn't help you.

Since you're interested in support for multiple systems the "correct" way would be to buy a MC Cthulhu ($34.95) and follow one of the many guides for making system cables. The idea is to install either a female RJ-45 jack (ethernet) into your case (the Neutrik jacks are the most popular) or another connector of your choosing and then make cables with the console connector on one end (PS2, DC, SNES) and the ethernet connector on the other. If you don't like RJ-45, you could use a DB-9 connector or something.

I suggest looking at this guide for an idea of what you want to do.

[speedlolita]

I couldn't live without my MC Cthuhlu RJ-45 setup anymore.. PS3, DC and PS2 at the switch of a cable - and I just have to make a new cable for more console support!

[burgerkingdiamond]

I couldn't live without my MC Cthuhlu RJ-45 setup anymore.. PS3, DC and PS2 at the switch of a cable - and I just have to make a new cable for more console support!

Yes sir. It's a nice product. I have a RJ-45 setup in my cab for PC, PS2, and Dreamcast.

[Shogun]

Since you're interested in support for multiple systems the "correct" way would be to buy a MC Cthulhu ($34.95) and follow one of the many guides for making system cables. The idea is to install either a female RJ-45 jack (ethernet) into your case (the Neutrik jacks are the most popular) or another connector of your choosing and then make cables with the console connector on one end (PS2, DC, SNES) and the ethernet connector on the other. If you don't like RJ-45, you could use a DB-9 connector or something.

I suggest looking at this guide for an idea of what you want to do.

Ok I've had a chance to read through everything a few times and this is definitely the way to go. The only thing I'm confused about is the HRAP's PCB. I've read around that interfacing it with the Cthulhu sounds like a bit of a pain. Plus it sounds like you lose turbo functionality? So I guess the last piece of the puzzle is to figure out if it's possible to maintain functionality of those buttons in the top left corner and if so what the easiest way it is to go about it. If not then the best path seems to wire the 8 buttons and joystick directly to the Cthulhu.

[Barrakketh]

Ok I've had a chance to read through everything a few times and this is definitely the way to go. The only thing I'm confused about is the HRAP's PCB. I've read around that interfacing it with the Cthulhu sounds like a bit of a pain. Plus it sounds like you lose turbo functionality? So I guess the last piece of the puzzle is to figure out if it's possible to maintain functionality of those buttons in the top left corner and if so what the easiest way it is to go about it. If not then the best path seems to wire the 8 buttons and joystick directly to the Cthulhu.

The HRAP3 PCB isn't common ground, so there isn't any way make use of it in the setup. This means no turbo functionality because it is part of the HRAP3 PCB itself.

The easiest solution would be the first suggestion Toodles gave, which is to get a HRAP replacement panel without the turbo area cut out. The home button isn't strictly needed (I think it is on the turbo panel), because you can have the MC Cthulhu (or any of his Chimp boards) activate the home button by pressing Start+Select.

[Shogun]

The HRAP3 PCB isn't common ground, so there isn't any way make use of it in the setup. This means no turbo functionality because it is part of the HRAP3 PCB itself.

The easiest solution would be the first suggestion Toodles gave, which is to get a HRAP replacement panel without the turbo area cut out. The home button isn't strictly needed (I think it is on the turbo panel), because you can have the MC Cthulhu (or any of his Chimp boards) activate the home button by pressing Start+Select.

Ok thanks. TBH I hardly use the joystick on the PS3 so it was mainly the turbo functionality I was wondering about. I wouldn't mind hitting start + select to get the home button. Now I just need to round up some tools and parts when I get some spare cash.